neo soul - classic or dud?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

im saying dud apart from a small group of artists. most of them have no idea how to write half-decent songs.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 18:46 (twenty years ago)

Does D'Angelo count?

the rest is pretty much crap...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 7 February 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

im saying dud apart from a small group of artists. most of them have no idea how to write half-decent songs.

ditto to the rest of the musical world!

― Tito JaXoN (JasonD), Monday, 7 February 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

dangelo counts, although erykah badu is classic. its not all crap, adriana evans was great, maxwells first album was good as the male sade, van hunt has some good songs, bilal was great but not brilliant enough. the likes of musiq, india arie, glenn lewis et al were all shit though.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

"ditto to the rest of the musical world!"

im only talking about neo soul though! i mean, the zutons might be boring as fuck, but they still know how to write songs. n'dambi, jill scott, and their ilk dont know how to in my soulist (not sure what would entail just yet) viewpoint.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

search: Dwele, D'angelo, Eryka Badu (specifically Mama's Gun), Bilal, Jill Scott (only the first album), Peven Everett, Tweet

― Tito JaXoN (JasonD), Monday, 7 February 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

tweet's first album was snoozeworthy, sterile R&B, barring the singles.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

I think it's an overrated genre (meaning that its traceable roots to Stevie W. et al are overrated), but I like Van Hunt a lot.

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

i was just thinking about this subject yesterday. i mostly agree. performers are good, songs are just kinda there...

― oskar shindig! (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

"its traceable roots to Stevie W. et al are overrated"

OTM.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

Um, yeah, good neo-soul singers are good, bad ones are bad.

S: D'Angelo, Erykah Badu, Anthony Hamilton, Maxwell

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

Alicia Keyes, anyone?

― Jeff K (jeff k), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

No.

I liked Falling the first time I heard it, then quickly grew irritated with it. Then she won the Best New Artist grammy and I knew there was no hope...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

"Um, yeah, good neo-soul singers are good, bad ones are bad."

well yeah, but theres lots of good singers out there but with crappy material (either self penned, or worse bad material picked written by others), i cant think of many with bad voices off the top of my head. much more a case of great voices/terrible singing (see musiq) or great voices/ultra-yawnsome songs.

i love alicia keys' as a singer (and er, pinup), she should probably get someone else to produce her though. the drums on her first album sounded like toy-town drum machines.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

I agree but I think Keyes has the potential to come up with something great in the future. Maybe...

― Jeff K (jeff k), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:19 (twenty years ago)

actually, it wasn't her *winning* the Grammy it was her performance that year at the show that I found very irritating. "Look! I can REALLY play piano! Bach even!" = eh, whatever.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:20 (twenty years ago)

yeah, the whole 'i know classical! thing was a gimmick. its like playing piano has become exoticised, in a way.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

I'm listening to Teedra Moses now and it's sounding gorgeous.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

does the teedra moses album use a lot of samples? i heard one track, which i liked a lot, but was dissapointed cos it was so reliant on the sample from an old nas song.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah, Teedra is great. I haven't listened to that album enough.

I guess by "singer" I meant the whole package. It should be a given that all of these people can sing, but yeah, the tunes and the music have to be there.

I think Anthony Hamilton's album might be my favorite, although I don't know if anyone considers it "neo-soul" instead of just r&b. Or country (hi Matt!).

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

if Keys had just tossed it in there nonchalantly - like, say, the way Bernie Worrell will toss in a nursery rhyme melody or a Beethoven snippet - than it wouldn't have bothered me, it might've come off as fun, a subtle "nudg nudge wink wink" thing. But it wasn't subtle - it was clunky and showy and pointless.

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

anthony hamiltons another guy with a great voice, but less than sparkling songs (sort of like calvin richardson). i think its in the middle of R&B and neo soul.

xxxpost - yeah alicia was trying to show what a huge piano virtuoso she was. i think most kids learn that piece she was playing in the first few months of piano lessons though.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

does stuff like Tru Thoughts count?
cos i think Quantic is putting out some awesome and timeless stuff
"Don't Joke With A Hungry Man" is just terrific

― rentboy (rentboy), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

Oh man, I love Anthony Hamilton's songs.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:29 (twenty years ago)

im going to go off to listen to hamilton again, but i think its his voice thats the clincher.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

The piano notwithstanding, I just can't stand Alicia Keys's voice: it really grates on me.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

I need to go back and have another listen to Hamilton. He didn't do much for me the first time around but I'll give it a second chance.

What about this John Legend fella? Worth my attention?

― Jeff K (jeff k), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:47 (twenty years ago)

all that needs to be said regarding alicia keys can be found in that retardo radio ad she did...i don't remember it offhand but it was pretty ridiculous.

dare we say that neo-soul is, by and large, annoyingly rockist? as in the "ok, now we're gonna give you something special...some real music" attitude. lame.

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

Anthony Hamilton and Jill Scott frustrate me so much with their amazing voices/non-songs combination. Sometimes it doesn't matter so much depending on my mood, but I just want someone to introduce them to the joys of HOOKS.

Erykah Badu and Teedra Moses classic all the way.

I've never really thought of Alicia Keys as neo-soul, don't know why, but I love her too: she has a knack for writing these amazingly malleable, universal songs within some very rigid self-imposed parameters. In the UK we're spared her more 'look at meeee, I am precocious' activities though I dare say I'd probably just find them endearing.

I'd like to know more about John Legend too.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

dare we say that neo-soul is, by and large, annoyingly rockist? as in the "ok, now we're gonna give you something special...some real music" attitude. lame

neo-soul is totally rockist. So is a lot of hip-hop. and a lot of indie/rock come to that. Even lots of chart pop acts seem to hold some very rockist beliefs! I just ignore all that.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

umm macy gray ..

is the album that no-one else liked 'the id' full on neo-soul?

whether it is or isn't .. tis a fine slice of funky songs

― mark e (mark e), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

whats neo soul got to do with rock (and by extension rockism)? this imposing of rockism on all musics is ridiculous - as if soul doesnt have it's own set of trad-orthodox rules all on its own....

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

my only problem with a lot of neo-soul is the length of song -- so many 3:00 masterpieces have been turned into 4:30+ snooze-o-ramas.

that said, i love a lot of teedra moses, d'angelo, jill scott, rahsaan patterson, and, lately, van hunt.

― john'n'chicago, Monday, 7 February 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

Not to bring up stupid rockism debates but music genres are not rockist, rockism is attitudes that many performers may have but it doesnt make you rockist for liking them blah blah blah.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 7 February 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

d'angelo is especially guilty of dragging out a song. the shortest song of voodoo is almost five-minutes long...

xpost

― john'n'chicago, Monday, 7 February 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

ok, not to engage in meta-rockism debates either, but doesnt the very term ROCKism connote a certain set of rules that have been stipulated by the genre rock? if you think the attitude neo soul fans and artists hold their fans to is the by product of how rock fans view soul, then that would be fine and i might agree, but far as i know, rock fans by and large dont give a crap about someone like say, roy ayers, one of the main influences of neo soul, much less 70s soul, barring stevie wonder. they like and canonise 60s soul far more, which neo soul does not sound like.

dangelo cant write songs really either - his new album is apparently chock full of 7 minute epics. oh joy!

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

I'm kind of surprised Angie Stone hasn't been mentioned yet. Basically, I get the theoretical objection to neo-soul, but there are far too many great records for it to really hold up.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 7 February 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

ok, not to engage in meta-rockism debates either, but doesnt the very term ROCKism connote a certain set of rules that have been stipulated by the genre rock?

no. despite the name, rockism hasn't got very much to do with rock (except that the critical discourse of popular music - which perpetuated many rockist assumptions - has tended to focus on rock). Neo-soul/r&b rockists/hip-hop rockists/rock rockists tend to have very similar viewpoints on tropes such as authenticity, realness, honesty &c, and all of them say things like 'not like that crap in the charts'.

I hope this thread won't descend into another rockism debate, apologies if I've just contributed to it.

Alba, Angie Stone is ESPECIALLY frustrating for me because she knows damn well about hooks ("Brotha"!) but still refuses to use them (most of Stone Love: so, so disappointing).

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 7 February 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

i loved angie stone's first single everyday (which dangelo cowrote) and parts of her first album, but was kinda underwhelmed by what shes been doing since then. she seems to be doing boring R&B stuff or working with snoop. didnt hear the last album though so maybe it was great.

OTM about the hooks, lex.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

Classic - Joss Stone

just kidding!

― Jeff K (jeff k), Monday, 7 February 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

yeah, ok, sorry about bringing up the "r" word...rather, let's just say that a lot of neo-soul performers evince the doofy attitude that they are doing something "real" and pure, and that this attitude often contributes to the blahsville quality of their recordings (since real and pure apparently means as slick, lazy, and boring as possible).

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Monday, 7 February 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

If you want a soul singer who can really sing like Stevie Wonder and is not "neo-soul", check out Davell Crawford.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 7 February 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

the best stevie impersonators of the past ten years are donnie, also on motown, and frank mccomb, no longer on motown, even though oddly, he used to be. i wish they didnt sound so much like him, but they do. luckily, they are good writers and have something urgent to say (in donnies case anyway) for themselves. theres also glenn lewis, but hes shit and a complete wet wipe.

― ppp, Monday, 7 February 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

d'angelo is worthwhile. i dunno - i really like that first lauryn hill album. maybe thats only tangentially neo-soul, but it seems pretty connected. ooh, i also love "i try" by macy gr(a/e)y. ill never get tired of that shit.
but van hunt? booooooooring!
maxwell? booooooooring!
jill scott? boooooooooring!
erykah badu? by and large, boooooooooooooring! some pretty good songs here and there, i guess, though.
musiq soulchild? booooooooooooooooooooooring!
joss stone? booooooooooooooooooooring!

― peter smith (plsmith), Monday, 7 February 2005 20:39 (twenty years ago)

rockist or not, neo-(soul/hip-hop) is fairly conservative. even neo-soul albums i like, like voodoo or miseducation are built on this very canonical "back to basics/in tribute to influences" foundation that can be very limiting. if the style isnt infused with new ideas or spirit or energy, i think it gets really smug and self-congratulatory (common-common-common-common) really quickly. i think thats where i start to gag/die.

― peter smith (plsmith), Monday, 7 February 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

NEO SOUL COMING DOWN LIKE RAIN

― admrl, Monday, 10 September 2007 01:19 (eighteen years ago)

what happened to Teedra Moses??

― admrl, Monday, 10 September 2007 01:29 (eighteen years ago)

Angie Stone, I like her. She seemed to have the sense of humor lacking in most of her ilk.

― The Reverend, Monday, 10 September 2007 04:16 (eighteen years ago)

man people said some dumb + RONG shit in this thread

― deej, Monday, 10 September 2007 05:55 (eighteen years ago)

dare we say that neo-soul is, by and large, annoyingly rockist? as in the "ok, now we're gonna give you something special...some real music" attitude. lame

neo-soul is totally rockist. So is a lot of hip-hop. and a lot of indie/rock come to that. Even lots of chart pop acts seem to hold some very rockist beliefs! I just ignore all that.

-- The Lex (The Lex), Monday, February 7, 2005 7:52 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

someone who isn't banned from noise plz post this in the posts very much in character thread, o_O thread, the RONG thread and the No-Lex November thread

― Jordan Sargent, Monday, 10 September 2007 05:59 (eighteen years ago)

Someone could do that, or someone could talk about neo soul.

― admrl, Monday, 10 September 2007 14:26 (eighteen years ago)

eh he's not even saying anything that objectionable there!

i play van hunt a lot

― deej, Monday, 10 September 2007 14:34 (eighteen years ago)

I'd like to hear more on this. I never bought any of these records, but I'm intrigued---I've heard some singles that I'd call neo-soul over the last 10 years that I loved, but I didn't figure out who they were by (heard them at a gym, where these songs were actually kind of a downer for my workout). So, any recommendations?

― Euler, Monday, 10 September 2007 15:26 (eighteen years ago)

I heard something called Kem. It was pretty...smooth. Who knows kem?

― admrl, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 03:12 (eighteen years ago)

"its traceable roots to Stevie W. et al are overrated"
OTM.
-- ppp, Monday, February 7, 2005 7:10 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

The least OTM thing I've ever read on ILM.

― Eric H., Tuesday, 11 September 2007 03:23 (eighteen years ago)

i am still waiting for a new d'angelo record. i'm going to be waiting a long time, aren't i?

― haitch, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 04:02 (eighteen years ago)

this is a much better example of lex being a dumbass

― deej, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 05:44 (eighteen years ago)

I heard something called Kem. It was pretty...smooth. Who knows kem?
I know Kem. Has a great song called "I can't stop loving you" that was all over local quiet storm radio in SA in 2005(which is like 2 of them).

― Christyles, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 07:22 (eighteen years ago)

one month passes...

Jill Scott and Donnie with two of the most INTERESTING albums of the year (haven't lsitened to enough new music this year to say what is BEST but they are definitely interesting re: i didn't expect either to be so thoroughly enjoyable or have so much to say)... would like to hear the new Rahsaan Patterson.. just listening to a song from this new album by Eric Roberson and it's very good.

Angie Stone NEW ALBUM OUT NEXT WEEK on STAX RECORDS WTF

Meanwhile Voodoo is still as good an album as any to call "the best of the last 10 years", so i guess CLASSIC

― people explosion, Thursday, 11 October 2007 04:07 (eighteen years ago)

six years pass...

I know this ain't really "neo-soul" but I haven't seen a thread about these guys or a mention of this song. anybody else digging The Heavy's "What Makes a Good man?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08h0IVs4RKQ

― Neanderthal, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 21:32 (twelve years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.