Taking Sides: Bruce Springsteen vs. David Bowie

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Like those sibling melodramas where one brother is a steelworker and the other is a ballet dancer, and in this one the dad is B. Dylan. (But that's wrong because they used to come out with a new style for every album, so just hearing what the thing was going to be like was often more intriguing than the actual contents.) Perhaps Bruce was into "Freewheelin'", where DB was more a "Blonde on Blonde" man? (Two ways to be chamelonic, the 'cake' model and the 'collage' model. IMHO, the 'cake' model stuff's brilliance gets revealed over the fullness of times while the 'collage' evaporates. Bruce is Sara Lee.)
Proxy vampires - Springsteen fed off the MC5's populism via Jon Landau, Bowie off Iggy via Tony DeFries. (Satellite question - Defries vs.[Landau vs. Mike Appel]).
Big hits - "Born in the USA" and "Dancing in the Dark", massive electro-butt-rock-pop slabs of shiny chrome duking it out with Billy Idol and Def Leppard! (If 'BITUSA' isn't Chuck Eddy's favorite album of all time it's probably because he thinks Bruce is a communist, or won't forgive him for not having any songs on a Don Simpson film sdtrck, the ultimate guarantor of C Eddy approval.) Bowie did wine-bar music with coke-period N.Rodgers, success of which left him stunned like the rabbit in the headlights (easier to blind than most 'cause his eye's fucked), where he stayed for about a decade and a half.
Dylan didn't run away from home to be a hobo. DB claimed to be from outer space but was afraid of flying. The 'Rambo of Rock' acted gay to get out of going to 'Nam. More points for Bruce here though - Bruce want to come across as an ordinary schlub, in fact WAS an ordinary schlub, but sang like a stoned alien ("Candy's Room", the middle bit of "Born to Run", "Point Blank"). Whereas DB wanted to be a stoned alien, in fact WAS a stoned alien, but sang like Anthony Newley. ("Candy's Room" = revenge for DB's massacre of "It's Hard to Be a Saint in the City" by way of compacting EVERYTHING on DB's magnum opus "Diamond Dogs" - the decay, the grinding adenoid guitar - inventing thrash-glam and drawling "Whuh...she...wantsshh...isshh...luuurrrve..." like somebody who's just been revived from post-OD clinical death. Like, see how EASY this is, Aladdin. Sane? Too bloody right, try working in a factory if you want to experience systematic derangement of the senses. Stay in your Swiss mansion and do coke all you want, you'll never what it means to steal, to cheat, to lie, what it's like to live and die. Sing about a 'rats as big as cats' and other shit you won't ever see but stay away from Atlantic City because you'll get your house in Mustique blown up too. You want to do a slow dramatic ambient big-voice epic piece to seal your place in charity-gig history with lines like "I wish I could swim"? Well beat this - "I'd drive all night to buy you some SHOES." Shove Lady Grinning Soul's cool canasta up your tight English ass.)
And really, what's more terrifying in the end, some pervy post-nuclear future fantasy, or ending up "Racing in the Street"? Or, 'reaching for the moment, trying to make an honest stand, but winding up wounded, not even dead...'

Oh, and both seem to have this penchant for chronically shitty sax playing. ("I have to pee REAL bad" - Creem)

― dave q, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I've never read any of D. Marsh's bought-and-paid-for meretricious drivel, and no plans to. However, 'Down Thunder Road' ('written with the cooperation of MIKE APPEL!") is pretty funny in places. He pats himself on the back repeatedly and fulsomely for "not taking any songwriting credits on songs I didn't write, contrary to widespread practice among managers." In 1973??????? The man's a saint!

Satellite question - which version of parasitic philistinism is more offensive to you - Jon Landau or John Sinclair?

― dave q, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

(Maybe Marsh's books are good, how would I know if I avoid reading them? Just going on lazy secondhand info here, sorry. Anyone who HAS waded through them - any good? [Not that it'll persuade me to read it, of course])

― dave q, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

great question, dave.

Though there's some background (ably covered above re: both dylan- progeny/saint in the city/first cousins to real detroit muscle), I think the real showdown would be between "Let's Dance" and "Born In the USA" - their early-80's crossover smash hits accompanied by video blitzes and giant stadium tours. This is where they were both at their most simplified versions of themselves and most dramatically at odds: the laid-off captain of the softball team vs. the limey partyboy in a pastel suit.

― fritz, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

also interesting re: nationality as identity, bowie a stereotype (eccentric english genius) but one more appealing to yanks than bruce's blue-collar americana is to brits (though the english seem to be eating this stuff up now with the americana no depression acts)?

― fritz, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

no contest, bowie is the far superior "artist" - but methinks it;s time they both retire...

― g, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bowie Bowie Bowie x10

― Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is there a British equivalent of the archetypal working-class hero pop star of the Springsteen type? Not a tough guy like Jimmy Pursey or a pinko like Billy Bragg, just a hard-workin' regular guy type?

Someone who sings about knocking up his highschool sweetheart and getting trapped in a mill town working the night shift until one night he gets too drunk at the pool hall and now he's driving down the New Jersey turnpike wondering where it all went wrong? or the coventry turnpike, or whatever you've got over there?

― fritz, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And is there an American equivalent to Bowie?

― fritz, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes, Fritz, but that would turn this thread into Joe Cocker versus Jarvis Cocker.

― Momus, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And the American Bowie was Jobriath. 'Who?' goes America, collectively.

― Momus, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

you've got a point about jobriath

do you think he would have had an easier time of it in the UK?

― fritz, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I adore Jobriath and have both his albums.

― Sean, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But I don't buy Joe Cocker as an English Bruce not one bit.

― fritz, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I can't believe I got to read that for free.

― Kris, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oddly enough, my favorite Bowie song - Heroes - almost sounds like something Springsteen could do.

Re: Dave Marsh...I read his Who biography, and it was infuriating. Not that it wasn't well-researched and all, but I couldn't get through more than a few pages without thinking "This man is a self- righteous, know-it-all little twerp." On the other hand, I've liked some other things he's written - his Kurt Cobain essay had some good points about the fallaciousness of the 'keep it real' thing that punk somehow inherited from folk. Really mediocre writer, though - doesn't deserved to be mentioned in the same breath as Bangs or Marcus or any of the great UK writers.

― Justyn Dillingham, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Jobriath? Hmm. Is his stuff in print in any meaningful way? I've always been curious about the dude since I read his bio entry in the circa '83 Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll. They made him sound like a complete loon but I'm thirty now and know better about trusting the old RS on matters of glam (if that's what Jobriath was).

― Michael Daddino, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sean mentioned that Rhino Handmade was on the verge of doing a full on Jobriath package but decided against it. Otherwise the records are so out of print it hurts. So this is where we gang up on Sean and tell him to use that new iMac he's going to buy to transfer his records to the digital realm. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

They made him sound like a complete loon

He was.

on matters of glam (if that's what Jobriath was)

He was.

I don't collect MP3's but do have files of two of his songs, by chance. Email me privately and I'll forward them to you.

― Sean, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i can't believe i used the word "methinks" in this thread...

― g, Wednesday, 9 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one year passes...

Landau is obviously much more offensive. Whoever told writers they could produce? Sinclair was just an overall cool guy who provided everyone with great pot.

I've been on a big Bowie kick ever since Pinfox's Aladdin Sane thread.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

''Too bloody right, try working in a factory if you want to experience systematic derangement of the senses. Stay in your Swiss mansion and do coke all you want, you'll never what it means to steal, to cheat, to lie, what it's like to live and die.''

dave q has stayed in the country too long: what with using words like 'bloody' and listening to Pulp's 'common people' a few too many times for anybody's good.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

'Common People'? B-but nobody actually works in 'factories' anymore!

― dave q, Thursday, 3 July 2003 06:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Springsteen did not pretend to be gay to get out of Nam. He had a bad knee from a motorcycle accident & was 4F. However, NRA poster child Ted Nugent is reported to have deliberately not so much as unzipped his fly for about 2 wks. prior to his appointment with the draft board, earning him a psycho deferrment with his waste-encrusted form. The MArsh books are pretty good.

― John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Thursday, 3 July 2003 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

People still work in factories, but today they are thankful that they are there rather than in minimum wage retail.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Friday, 4 July 2003 00:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Stay in your Swiss mansion and do coke all you want, you'll never what it means to steal, to cheat, to lie, what it's like to live and die.''

wrong.

― disco stu (disco stu), Friday, 4 July 2003 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the idea of Bowie a lot more but his music is a lot more hit-or-miss than Springsteen's. Which is probably what you get for not releasing albums every 3-5 years like Bruce does.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 4 July 2003 04:14 (twenty-two years ago)

seven months pass...

According to the recent Morrissey interview in Index mag, Rhino Handmade is realeasing a Jobriath best-of (maybe this will come out after all?).

― Mary (Mary), Friday, 6 February 2004 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

i prefer 2 listen 2 bruce

― Emma williams (Emma williams), Friday, 6 February 2004 01:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't imagine any reasonable person choosing Bruce over Bowie. I just can't fathom it.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 February 2004 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)

whahaha

― Emma williams (Emma williams), Friday, 6 February 2004 02:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I like both, really. But, I mean, obviously, Bowie is clearly ahead here. Springsteen may be kind of a nice poet, and a great rock'n'roll songwriter and artist. Bowie, though, has reinvented himself several times, and at least in the 70s he was mostly just as brilliant every time around. His albums grow on you with every listen, while Springsteen's albums have long since ceased growing on me.

No, this is Bowie, although I see absolutely no reason to mock Springsteen either.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 6 February 2004 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not suggesting that Springsteen is dung or anything, I just would never put him in the same class as Bowie.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 February 2004 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

i can never, ever truly trust someone who does not prefer bowie to bruce. it's that simple. one's a musical giant who's inspired some of the best music in his wake (as well as some awful crap), the other's a guy who has had some good songs and has inspired some of the most dreadful dreck (as well as some really good stuff).

bowie, no contest not even close.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 6 February 2004 03:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think Bowie's Springsteen cover is bad at all. I like it.

― ben welsh (benwelsh), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:38 (twenty-one years ago)

He actually did two.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I like both, but right now, at this moment, it'll have to be, David Bowie.

― Aja (aja), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

i bet that bowie was a bigger influence over the foo fighters (and KILLING JOKE!) than springsteen.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah!

Dave Grohl has worked with Bowie. Dave (Grohl) gave his sister a lyric sheet David (Bowie) had writen and left on the floor in a room with some of the people who had appered on the album he just finished making.

― Aja (aja), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:50 (twenty-one years ago)

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