Pazz & Jop : Why the idiotic name?

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I mean, really... what the hell is that all about?

― Mervin Heinz, Friday, 11 February 2005 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

to get chicks

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 11 February 2005 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

agreed, it's a real dumb name-- so seethingly lame that i can't help but wonder what the editors were thinking.

― his face was burned off in a flaming crossbow accident (King Kobra), Friday, 11 February 2005 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

It should be Rog and Prock

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 11 February 2005 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Should be D.I.A. and Maft Punk.

― Matt Chesnut, Friday, 11 February 2005 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

How about Punk & Funk? oh wait...
Rock & Roll.... wait, no...

I know, Dunk & Crisco

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 11 February 2005 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Jizz and Pip

― Shmool McShmool (shmuel), Friday, 11 February 2005 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Stroke & Suck?

― Garibaldianne (Garibaldianne), Friday, 11 February 2005 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Fop and Punk

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 11 February 2005 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

because it was modeled on the critics' poll in Jazz & Pop magazine, still (I think) a going concern when the Voice's poll began in 1974.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 11 February 2005 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Some band needs to describe themselves as Pazz Rock. Or Jop Rock.

― Shmool McShmool (shmuel), Friday, 11 February 2005 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

pazznis joplin

― stockholm cindy's secret childhood (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 11 February 2005 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

bythm & rhues

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Betcha it was named by that guy in skinny puppy with the great idea of the backward moniker. Brilliant!

(the music biz is full of creative people)

― peepee (peepee), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:18 (twenty-one years ago)

roger & zapp

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

uh . . . it was named for the reasons I mentioned above. not to interrupt the tea party or anything.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:25 (twenty-one years ago)

the name would be great IF the poll and its respondents ever in fact realized that there were, you know, a few actual real JAZZ ALBUMS released each year.

As it stands, the name is a joke.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:27 (twenty-one years ago)

well, sure--it was intended as a joke!

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

but it's turned into a CRUEL joke. on all the fantastic musicians out there whose wonderful work gets ignored each and every year by a bunch of mainstram music critics who don't have good listening skills! that's what I meant.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:34 (twenty-one years ago)

and this is different from every other contest and/or poll ever because . . . ?

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, it was never a jazz poll in the first place! it was ALWAYS a pop poll, run by a pop critic with and for and by other pop critics. so decrying what it's become is sort of missing the point because all that's changed is what pop critics are interested in, which is what's going on currently and within their frame of historical reference.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:37 (twenty-one years ago)

the poll itself was started somewhat as a lark anyhow right? like our 70s poll has more planning and bureaucracy (and voters) than the first (or second) p&j yeah?

xpost - there did used to be considerably more jazz representation which is to say some at all.

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

any at all, more like. like every few years there'd be an Ornette Coleman album in the top 30, or more recently, James Carter. and that's that, damn near.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

no, you're right M. I am just having a little fun, being a pest. I do think the name is misleading at this point because it gives the impression that, yeah, it's gonna a be a survey of basically the entire musical universe. But I certainly don't expect to find, like, Henry Threadgill albums at the top of these things. Life goes on...

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, I kinda thought you might be joking. winky and all that . . . .

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:42 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah the james carter was kinda a 'well whattya know' and cassandra wilson's maybe placed top 40 (and norah jones) but it's seems to me (ie. i don't really know what i'm talking about) that in the seventies/early eighties it was a bit more likely/common - fusion nods, ornette, MILES, james blood ulmer right? at least plenty of the bigcrits of the time certainly paid some heed to it - bangs, xgau, MELTZER god knows.

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't care that there's no jazz on the poll, it just annoys me to see all these ILX threads with "azz" in them that make me look twice.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd like to see meltzer's ballots if he ever voted.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

back that azz up j

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

haha i'm not sure if meltzer EVER voted! he's been bitching for over thirty years now that xgau waited til his second week as music editor to publish something by him ("HE'S ALWAYS HAD IT IN FOR ME").

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:50 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG JORDAN - you should pitch the new orleans altweekly that they should do a jazz p&j the way the nashville scene has done the country p&j (which reminds me - is this out yet? HELLA MORE INTERESTING THAN VV PJ FO SHO).

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:53 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah but he wrote semi-regularly for the voice from the mid-70s through the early 80s. those are some of his best pieces, actually, imo (though he poo-poos them a bit in a whore just like the rest).

x-post

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not out yet--next week hopefully. (this week is "the sex issue" for v-day)

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah his redd foxx review was for the voice

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 11 February 2005 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

but there are so many good ones that he didn't choose for that book

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 February 2005 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

x post a little

Atlantic was pretty smart about pushing their first James Carter record to alt/rock critics -- i.e., servicing it to them, for starters. Carter was also included on a couple of alt-oriented promo samplers. That Carter tolly rulez certainly didn't hurt, but it was a good way to get the record to some curious ears that probably not havfe heard it otherwise.

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Friday, 11 February 2005 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Jub & Dungle

― Aaron A., Friday, 11 February 2005 03:19 (twenty-one years ago)

All the jazz that ever placed in the P&J albums list:

1971 Mahavishnu Orchestra: The Inner Mounting Flame #10
1979 Art Ensemble of Chicago: Nice Guys #29
1980 Arthur Blythe: Illusions #34
1981 James Blood Ulmer: Free Lancing #25
1982 Ronald Shannon Jackson and the Decoding Society: Mandance #38
1982 Ornette Coleman: Of Human Feelings #13
1983 James Blood Ulmer: Odyssey #20
1986 Pat Metheny/Ornette Coleman: Song X #19
1987 Ornette Coleman: In All Languages #11
1988 Ornette Coleman and Prime Time: Virgin Beauty #13
1991 Sonny Sharrock: Ask the Ages #15
1993 Cassandra Wilson: Blue Light 'Til Dawn (Blue Note) #34
1995 James Carter: The Real Quietstorm #29
1996 Cassandra Wilson: New Moon Daughter #16

Actually, this may not be all of them. Also, I'm not counting things like Olu Dara or *The Carl Stalling Project* or anything in the "reissues" category.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 11 February 2005 03:31 (twenty-one years ago)

That's shocking.

― briania (briania), Friday, 11 February 2005 03:44 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a fantastic idea, Blount. I didn't see Gambit's music wrapup this year but it must have been better than Offbeat, which sucked ass.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 11 February 2005 03:52 (twenty-one years ago)

*have [slaps forehead]

Cassandra Wilson! [slaps forehead]

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Friday, 11 February 2005 03:56 (twenty-one years ago)

That jazz list is crazily Ornette/free-funk centric.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 11 February 2005 04:06 (twenty-one years ago)

All the jazz that ever placed in the P&J albums list:

So...basically all of the good stuff?

I'm only halfway kidding. The gap between '71 and '79 is pretty ridiculous of course. Then again, why should jazz albums be included when it's obviously a Pazz poll?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 11 February 2005 04:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Nine Ornette-related albums in 35 years is not anything-centric. It's a tiny pinhole in a vast blindness.

― briania (briania), Friday, 11 February 2005 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

The idea of "listening skills" a- and bemuses me.

"While his listening taste has sometimes been questioned, his skills are undisputed. His effortlessly multi-octave listening range and dazzling speed of perception make it clear that "virtuoso" is not too strong a word."

― OleM (OleM), Friday, 11 February 2005 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually the Nashville Scene country poll came out a couple weeks ago: http://www.nashvillescene.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?story=Back_Issues:2005:January_27-February_2_2005:News:Cover_Story

xpost

― asl, Friday, 11 February 2005 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm kind of surprised Last Exit's Iron Path didn't place in whatever year that was ('88?).

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 11 February 2005 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

why is it called the village voice did it used to be a gay forum?

― dstepz, Friday, 11 February 2005 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Jazz Times magazine polls their critics. I'm not sure how Downbeat does things.

Jordan should start writing for Offbeat. It's getting too roots-rock/Americana and bar-bandish, when I want it to cover brass bands, jazz, rap, and zydeco.

― steve-k, Friday, 11 February 2005 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

>why is it called the village voice did it used to be a gay forum? <

not exactly. but phil dellio did say a few years ago that his dad in toronto asked him "are you still writing for the village people"?

― chuck, Friday, 11 February 2005 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)

thanks, asl!

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 11 February 2005 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

They don't ask people who are strictly (or mainly) jazz critics to vote in Pazz & Jop. I'd say it was designed originally to be a pop-rock-soul poll; the wacky name was probably meant to inspire people to define that territory as loosely and wild as they desired and was meant to undercut the superdefinitiveness of "Year End Poll." Xgau is intrigued by commonalities but leery of canonization.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 13 February 2005 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Betcha it was named by that guy in skinny puppy with the great idea of the backward moniker. Brilliant!
(the music biz is full of creative people)

-- peepee (citywideva...), February 11th, 2005 9:18 PM

roffle!

― eman (eman), Sunday, 13 February 2005 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

this name angers me. i will boycott any advertisers who advertise in this issue.

― Dog/Face/Chain (res), Tuesday, 28 October 2008 19:56 (seventeen years ago)

2,000 hookers quake

― omar little, Tuesday, 28 October 2008 20:01 (seventeen years ago)

^^loved that first 7 inch, album didn't do much for me

― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 28 October 2008 20:14 (seventeen years ago)

four years pass...

this name is weak sauce

― Poliopolice, Wednesday, 28 November 2012 19:29 (thirteen years ago)

Agreed. It's a weak name for something that means aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabsolutely nothing to me.

― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Wednesday, 28 November 2012 21:09 (thirteen years ago)

It was and may still be the largest poll of music critics around, if it happens again.

― curmudgeon, Thursday, 29 November 2012 16:40 (thirteen years ago)

you would win every year if I was a music critic
http://meanderingentertainer.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/paz-lenchantin1.jpg

― how's life, Thursday, 29 November 2012 17:49 (thirteen years ago)

http://troubledsoulsunite.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/janis-joplin-free-when-she-sang.jpg

― how's life, Thursday, 29 November 2012 17:50 (thirteen years ago)

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