Kanye West....is he as good as he tells us he is?

I reckon, production-wise, yeah he really is that good. "Cultural parameter reallignment" is not always necessary.

S.

but these are is only minor objections. i actually think that you might like the album.

I don't know what you mean by real vs sincere anyway. That argument, whether in rock or hip-ho, always struck me as pointless. Who knows and who cares?

YOu'd have to point out specific examples of Kanye's conceit, lovebug. The most charming tracks on the album - "Family Business" and "Spaceship" - undercuts whatever conceit you point out.

Now THERE'S a typo.

*** "I'm a pretty smart dude. I knew that if I could rap even anywhere near the caliber of my beats, I would kill the game," Kanye, a couple of weeks removed from the listening sessions, surmised modestly. "Murder the game." ***

***"Would it be arrogance or confidence?" he questioned. "Because I'm outspoken? Or because I feel confident? I feel like I have the right to tell you. My thing is, I just like to debate. I really like my raps. ... But it's not from arrogance, it's from me just debating and wanting to get my point across. Like, 'You all need to understand.' Any situation I'm in, I just wanna stand out." ***

***I think I've got a lot of growing to do," he admitted. "I've got a lot of energy. I'm growing and growing every day, and I'm finding out ways to wear my success with more dignity. The younger you are, the newer your money is, the more ignorant you're gonna act. I need to learn and have the opportunity to be around people like Quincy Jones and Oprah Winfrey." ***

Does this include the large percentage of the critical community who voted for it as album of the year?

how reductionist can you get? if we can't talk about his work in a fair and representative manner, we will get nowhere.

Rob Base & EZ Rock to thread. (not to mention Arrested Development)

That 0.001 % of the world's population maybe not, indeed.

did you hear that last album? it was so bad that it almost hurt my feelings.

Far, far less than that. That same poll also made Arrested Development and fucking Wilco their number one albums once, but, hey, that's life. Are you trying to reignite the tired critics-don't-listen-to-the-real-people argument?

Hey, you forgot the first dash! I'm usually very tired myself.

Kanye's sound is pretty great, and a year and half ago anyway, it was pretty fresh sounding. He's not a great wordplay rapper, but his willingness to go where other rappers won't (ie: talk honestly about his life, and not just the parts that lend themselves to macho bragging) gets him a lot of credit.

That said, I do think the album got a bit overrated (I plead guilty to that myself.) The high points are damn high, but there's a fair chunk of forgettable mediocre stuff on it, too. In some ways I'll tke a solid-all-the-way-through but not nearly so innovative record way ahead of one like "College Dropout" My choice for hiphop album of the year is either "Murs 3:16" or Azeem "Show Business." Murs, by the way, has a lot in common in his lyrical attitude to Kanye, although he's not so prone to talking himself up as the second coming of Stevie Wonder or some shit in interviews. Then again, he's been making records a lot longer and a lot closer to the ground than Kanye has, and has never hit the same kind of mega-success. If he had, who knows how that would've affected his outlook?

So what if it isn't?

no intention to do THAT at all...brr

But it is true. cos my sister prefers Usher way above Annie and while 'Can't Get You Out Of My Head' by dear Kylie is seen as the greatest popsong of alltime by critics, my sister (as a poplistener) hates that song with a passion. just saying...not relevant to this discussion at all..forgive me

I start not liking him and end up in a discussion like this!

And I don't think Alex is making an argument so much as asking a question. In a batty self-important way.

"I would accept Alex's argument if he'd actually listened to the whole album."

"with references to what happened to his mom during plastic surgery after how he had plastic surgery" otm

Read something somewhere about "Kanye Drops Out Of Victoria Secret Show Shocker!" How exactly is that a fuckin' shocker?? <b>THE POOR MAN'S MOTHER JUST DIED!</b> Give a man a break.

a line break

fucking obnoxious: http://www.kanyeuniversecity.com/blog/?em3106=193659_-1__0_%7E0_-1_5_2008_0_0&entry=191082&em3161=&em3281=&entry=193659

scroll down a bit

that just makes him sound like a complete idiot.

"I don't care about anything but making great art."

Really

Someone post umaddoggie.gif

"Grab a drink, holla at some nice girls, and party bitch!! You don't know shit about passion and art. You'll never gain credibility at this rate. You're fucking trash! I make art. You can't rate this. I'm a real person. I'm not a pop star. I don't care about anything but making great art. Never come 2 one of my shows ever again, you're not invited and if you see me...BOW!! This is not pop, it's pop art!"

Entertainment Weekly doesn't care about black people.

BOW!!

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/142769-lollapalooza-report-sunday-scott-plagenhoef

This is framed as a Lollapalooza review, but scottpl makes a good argument for Kanye as the world's best pop star, even drawing some comparisons to someone else who's been called the "biggest celebrity in the world."

sorry, i couldn't see past the first 3 paragraphs about a non-musician who wasn't there.

Scott needs to tell us which other black people are like other black people as well.

Oh come on. All that stuff about Obama is partially why I think this is a better, or at least more thought-provoking, piece than most perfunctory festival wrap-ups.

Yeah, it's not bad once it gets going. I was just kind of caught off guard that a rumored appearance that ended up not happening, and was covered heavily elsewhere, took up such a big chunk of the piece.

Obama's such big news at the moment (even in the UK, I can't imagine what it must be like in the US) that you can't begrudge Scott engaging with the idea of his relationship to this event.

I think Scott's largely right about Kanye too, certainly in terms of Kanye's ambition to reach out, to cross demographics. I'm not sure if he's quite got the chops to do so yet (none of his albums, for me, have been fully GREAT so far, although all have fantastic moments), or the charisma, quite, but he's certainly doing it better than anyone else. Who are his contemporaries? Jay-Z? Chris Martin? Britney Spears? Justin Timberlake? Madonna? They all fall down in (numerous) ways that Kanye doesn't.

It's true, Kanye falls down in his own special, unique ways.

but hey

we ALL FALL DOWN

amirite

jay-z and madonna are not kanye's contemporaries by any stretch of the imagination

Why not?

unless u wanna define contemporary as "alive at the same time" or something

beyoncé is probably the biggest global superstar right now (or maybe shakira?) so she'd be the most apt comparison if we're talking biggest/best music celebrity

yeah, don't know where anyone would've gotten the idea that Jay-Z and Kanye West even belong in the same sentence.

Um, the fact that Kanye produced tracks for Jay-Z as his break, and that his debut album was released by Jay--Z's label, and that they both occupy the zone of multi-platinum selling hip hop artists, suggests they're contemporaries, surely? And Madonna is, you know, a big pop star (although clearly floundering right now) who has used her success and fame as a gateway into other ventures besides music (albeit generally without success).

I'm intrigued to know how Kanye has "explored architecture" according to Scott's piece?

x-post.

Maybe he got lost in one of the backstage areas.

Pretty sure the answer to this is Bono.

Chris Martin = the new, low-self-esteem Bono.

unless u wanna define contemporary as "alive at the same time" or something

-- lex pretend, Tuesday, August 5, 2008 3:42 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

that IS how you define contemporary.

http://www.usabilidoido.com.br/imagens/mk_fatality.png

in this context it's generally taken to mean of or around the same age as u very well know, or shall we start calling miley cyrus a contemporary of meryl streep

why not - Lindsay Lohan coutns as Streep's "contemporary"

lex, you said "contemporaries by any stretch of the imagination"

Both definitions are valid:

4. a person belonging to the same time or period with another or others.
5. a person of the same age as another.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Contemporary-Music/b?ie=UTF8&node=694228

Lex never did explain why Kanye and West aren't contemporaries? If it's down to album releasing frequency I can kind of understand that, BUT in terms of their presence in the wider media as hip hop luminaries I think it's fair to say they've been contemporaries since 2003 / 2004. Jay-Z may be older and may not be releasing records much now, but they still have high profiles at the same time.

yeah, kind of bizarre that lex wouldn't back up a statement he made so confidently with any kind of justification.

I know, I know, but I still hold out a smidgeon of hope that one day Lex will be reasonable again.

I know it's a typo, Nick, but I am kind of giggling at those two juggernauts in hip-hop, Kanye and West.

Haha, shit, I hadn't even noticed!

I'd say the fact that they seem to stagger their albums release dates perfectly lends even more credence to them being contemporaries, probably buddies, and definitely competitors/artists sharing the same market.

To add to the OP's topic, I think the subject of Kanye's ego/braggadocio comes up often because, unlike most rappers, he doesn't deal in gunplay or drugs, so he basically has his music and his rep, which are pretty close to each other. It's kind of a basic fact of rap, but it sticks out as Kanye's "thing." Not that I mind - I kind of like the fact that the biggest rapper in the world is writing and producing stuff that calls to mind the spirit of rap circa 1983. He's even kind of chummy with nu-electro if you want to draw another parallel.

I know it's a typo, Nick, but I am kind of giggling at those two juggernauts in hip-hop, Kanye and West.

lololol

where's the complete opposite of braggadocio...I don't mean "omg, introspection shows i'm flawed human being" rap, I mean downright insecure, depressed rap, about how the principal is useless and can't do shit.

in Minnesota

Gus Frerotte has a rap album?

WHAAAAAA? Graduation is such a mess.

Justin Timberlake is today's greatest pop star, natch.

spiteful and cuntish post by the sun in response to kanye's recent blog
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/2794346/Kanye-West-makes-a-fool-of-himself-again-with-blog-rant.html

Here we go again!

The latest:

DURING THIS NEW ALBUM PROCESS SOMETIMES I TURN THE MUSIC UP AND DRINK AND CRY. WHEN SOMETHING SOUNDS SO AMAZING AND GROUNDBREAKING I'M REMINDED OF WHY I LIVE. I DRINK THE PAIN OF NOW 2 GENERATIONS AND BREATHE OUR MELODIES AND MESSAGES. THE MUSIC KEEPS US ALIVE. I WAS BLESSED WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO BRING MY AND OTHERS DREAMS TO LIFE. IT'S LIKE PERFORMING MAGIC OR SOMETHING. IT'S SURREAL. WE BRING THE UNREALISTIC TO REALITY. GO HARD GO HARD GO HARD ECHOES IN MY DREAMS.

Full post here: http://www.kanyewest.com/home