so I guess my question is, why don't they change the whole system, instead of mailing out copies to all these critics, nearly all of whom own computers and are probably on soulseek too, and expect them all to operate on the honor system? all it takes is one. I know that they want to get as much advance press for the record as possible, and that involves giving publications enough lead time to listen to it and write and publish a review. but when it's getting to the point that by the time the review is out, most of the people who care about the album have already heard it and formed their own opinions, how important is that really?
can you imagine if a highly anticipated record these days was actually kept top secret until even less than a week before the release date? I mean, even a week or two advance leak is better than the 1-2 months that seems to be the norm these days. maybe the mystery of it would actually generate more excitement than if everyone already had at least heard detailed descriptions of it. maybe magazines can just run their interviews/features the month the album drops, and then actually run reviews the month after it's out.
ok, I've already gone on long enough. discuss.
― Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:24 (twenty years ago)
― peter smith (plsmith), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:34 (twenty years ago)
Anyway, what critic would honestly leak one of these records? Why? Why would they give a shit about getting it out on the internet? I'm of the belief that it's someone close to the band/label that typically does the leaking.
― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)
― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)
― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)
josh, I agree that artists are probably to blame for a lot of the leaking. but do you really think that all critics are above leaking albums? not to point fingers, but there are an awful lot of pro critics here on ILM, and a lot of them download freely, and I kind of doubt that none of them have ever gotten a promo in the mail and uploaded it to slsk.
― Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)
― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)
― svend (svend), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)
― svend (svend), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)
― Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)
― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)
They should all have to sign a master index upon accepting a promotional copy, digitally watermarked with a unique fingerprint linked to a checksum that is their -unique- ID. And they should be sent only digital copy-protected items with computer virus loaders which automatically patch key Internet and operating system drivers on their PCs. Additionally, they should be compelled to install monitoring spyware or a hardware dongle on the modem port so that the promotional CD is properly secured.
And if that doesn't work they should be ordered by a judge, as terms of their employment, not to go near any networked computers as long as they write about pop music.
― George Smith, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)
― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)
― Dude, are you a 15 year old asian chick? (jingleberries), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)
If you're going to look to controlling leaks, and I'm saying the industry -cannot- do this, the first place it will have to establish stronger data controls is in-house. They will have to stop any sub-contracting work that allows data to flow outside their networks.And, even if instituted, cannot be made airtight.
Next, they will have to dispense with the practice of using unpaid interns. People who aren't paid to do shit work and who have no formal professional attachment to the company cannot be secured. Simply, they have no reason not to -share-. What's the worst that can happen? "Oh, you're going to fire me? Ha-ha. Go screw yourself."
There are easily a hundred reasons -interior- to the industry, and having nothing to do with promotional copies mailed to critics, why digital music cannot be secured during its development.
The industry would have to destroy itself to stop leaks.
― George Smith, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)
Yes, this appears to be so. However, legally there's no way to make it stick and the unique watermark on a CD cannot be used to implicate a critic. The arguments destroying it are simple.
For instance, how many critics or recipients of watermarked CDs simply often or sometimes toss the things into the trash? Once it's in the trash and the janitor or dumpster diver picks it out, hmmm. How many in a big office simply take a pile of surplus they'll never get to or which has been passed over throw it down in a communal area where anyone in the place is free to take it home?
There are other reasons but watermarking is futility.
― George Smith, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:18 (twenty years ago)
― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)
The next logical thing, probably in brainstorm or process, is promotional CDs that "expire." Break the seal, and contact with air starts a chemical reaction that allows you to listen to the thing for only 24 or 48 hours, or some time deemed inconvenient to leakers. It won't work the way they want it to, anyway.
― George Smith, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)
― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)
Yeah, there are easier ways to get dropped. Write negative reviews regularly.
― George Smith, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)
― George Smith, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)
My guess at an answer is, "Since I download leaked stuff all the time I should share my promos with others." Most people share because other people share with them -- it's what makes the file sharing world go around.
I can't see labels taking time to figure out where leaks originate, anyway. And if you get taken off the promo list -- you can just download it!
― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)
― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)
― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)
This one's not entirely new. I can remember reading stories aboot Geffen doing this for the Use Your Illusions, I guess as a way to fend off pesky cassette bootleggers.
― Vic Funk, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:35 (twenty years ago)
― Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 04:42 (twenty years ago)
― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 04:51 (twenty years ago)
― Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 04:54 (twenty years ago)
― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 05:07 (twenty years ago)
― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 06:13 (twenty years ago)
What I said: Computer security measures are anathema to promotion and publicity. There's a way to make use of it hurt, or at least uncomfortable. Write about the computer virus or malicious copy control scheme on the disc, at the expense of the artist. A passive way is to throw the disc away. I do that with some that are obviously labelled "not responsible if unauthorized copying results in damage to your system."
― George Smith, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 07:09 (twenty years ago)
I seem to remember Kid A being out months before it's official release, and this was seen as one of the reasons it went straight to number 1 - people had got used to its "unorthodox" songs.
― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)
Josh: "ever want to risk getting knocked off the promo stream by uploading an advance"
Risk? There is no risk.
― rytryetr, Thursday, 17 February 2005 10:53 (twenty years ago)
― Jason J, Thursday, 17 February 2005 11:26 (twenty years ago)
I used to get all excited about getting promos of stuff a few weeks before it's out, but now everyone can get stuff, often months before it hits the shops, and critics are no longer a special case.I think that's a good thing, it means less people are relying on other people's opinions.
― mei (mei), Thursday, 17 February 2005 12:43 (twenty years ago)
― hmmm (hmmm), Thursday, 17 February 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)
Ha ha! You funny!
― George Smith, Thursday, 17 February 2005 17:25 (twenty years ago)
Obviously, at the tippy-top of the iceberg release dates matter a lot. You have a marketing plan that depends on orchestrating massive press (short- and long-lead), TV appearances, a pre-release radio single, a high-profile arena tour, co-op dollars, paid advertising, an iPod commercial, movie soundtrack, video, pre-release leaks (and press about same), and a Superbowl halftime slot, all resulting (hopefully) in a top-five Billboard ranking that gets you more press, etc. You have to worry about what else is competing for all those column inches and TV minutes. Plus, you have the physical problem of getting hundreds of thousands (or millions) of units into the hands of thousands of retailers with different inventory systems on an equitable basis that avoids pissing anyone off. It's impossible to pull off without a definite release date planned months in advance. If you do it right, you get a "perfect storm" effect that probably multiplies sales of all products significantly. Everybody wins -- artist, label, promoters, etc.
That is really important if you are U2 or Usher, or Universal. It may even be important if you are Bright Eyes.
But that marketing model has nothing to do with the vast majority of releases, where there is not going to be massive press, iPod commercials, TV talk shows, or Superbowl slots, and getting brick and mortar retailers to carry them at all is a struggle. Great first-week sales means nothing -- at most, being on the Billboard chart at all vs. not being there. Success is going to be a function of viral marketing: small-scale touring, street teams, plain old word-of-mouth. In that context, having a "release date" means next to nothing, except you hope the band has copies to sell on tour, and that stores in places where they are touring have them too, and you probably want Pitchfork and the weeklies in tour cities to get copies.
Sub Pop is on a great run with The Postal Service and The Shins, but who the hell remembers what the release dates were for those records? Neither one hit its stride until 6-7 months after release. The Shins had their Garden State soundtrack deal, but it didn't even include the newer stuff, and obviously the release dates were not coordinated. Arcade Fire is experiencing the perfect storm effect right now (I'm trying not to say "tsunami"), and it's five months past the release date (and 7-8 months past the leak date).
An established band like Sleater-Kinney is probably on the bottom-bottom edge of the release date having any possible commercial relevance. They are going to get a fair amount press; they have enough core fans so that indie retailers, at least, care about having the product in their stores if it's available. Someone is going to spend some marketing dollars to hold their base and to expand it. But ultimately the commercial success or failure of the coming S-K record is going to be determined weeks and months after they start selling it, not the month before.
I suspect the obsession with release dates is a function of marketing laziness -- following the same pattern, whether it is meaningful or not. Editors, etc., probably play into it by insisting on "news" value for articles and reviews, but that is laziness, too, and it doesn't stop anyone from circling back when there is actual news value (e.g., Arcade Fire) later.
― Vornado (Vornado), Thursday, 17 February 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)
No, only a month, though live versions had been circulating earlier.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 February 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)
Because the label, as a courtesy to you – a (supposed) professional – has mailed you a copy of one of their product before it's available for purchase to the general public. I would think that – as a professional – you might extend them the courtesy of not sharing with the entire world, especially since they have I'm sure they specifically asked you not to either in the paperwork that came with the disc or on the disc itself.
Jesus, are you people all 15 years old? Christ, if I had this attitude in the video game industry I would have long been fired, in jail, or both.
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 17 February 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)
― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)
How so? I mean I understand what you mean in terms of the monetary issues involved and the differences in the product but from a strictly professionalism viewpoint I'd be interested why a music journalist would feel justified in doing this.
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)
― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)
; )
PS But still I wasn't suggesting there something as grandiose as a "code of honor" I guess I just feel like if a company gives you something for free as a part of your job and asks you to not give it away, you should - out of courtesy - oblige them....All I'm getting is that you're saying it's different for music journalists because there are no real consequences?
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)
― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)
― Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Thursday, 17 February 2005 23:35 (twenty years ago)
Well, unless you got a shitload of illegal equipment, it's really hard to get and distribute rom copies of modern console video games (I'm not talking about ROMs for Pac Man or Galaga here). It's just far more difficult to do with today's video games, as the devices that read in video game data (Playstations, Xboxes, Gamecubes, etc.) have to be specially crafted to do the pirating deed.. there's (usually) hardware encryption in the consoles, and the consoles are more powerful in performance than a hacked Mac or PC emulation (which also takes work.)
As far as code leaks, it's totally an apples & oranges thing, because gaming companies never send game reviewers the source code.
Music and video are all data... once you know the code, that's that. The standards are much simpler and more universal with music and video than they are with video game data.
― donut debonair (donut), Friday, 18 February 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)
― Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 24 February 2005 07:12 (twenty years ago)
Next, no matter how high speed your network is, it's still easier to open a promotional CD and stick it in a player. For example, at a daily newspaper feature section, where a good pile of promotional items arrive every day, sorting through paperwork and e-mail to find -where- to go for a promotional download and -what- password to use in -which- directory just gets nowhere as a good idea. And we're not even beginning to talk about the reporters and free-lancers who aren't all plainly enamored of everything Internet and don't look forward to spending more of their day sifting through electronic rubbish, URLs, broken links, improperly configured "shares" and filling out more corporate on-line forms...
And then there is the -corporate- aspect. You work for a newspaper or a magazine and music reviewing isn't the pubs only business. And they're not going to want the willy-nilly accumulation of copyrighted music files on their networks and the concomitant regulations, even if ignored, that this process would fix upon them.
This isn't a good application. Might as well just give the promotional songs away for free and clear on a site but not expect it to be the final modus operandi for the entire world, or even a targeted segment of reviewers.
― George Smith, Thursday, 24 February 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)