grime/dizze rascal is crap

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why do pretentious music critics like this garbage so much? give me real us hip hop like atmosphere any day.

― Argot, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 17:31 (twenty years ago)

The 31-year-old Travis frontman also defended the rap by Dizzee Rascal which appears towards the end of the new version, saying it was aimed at a younger audience.

He said: "Dizzee's rap is fantastic, it's fabulous - 'you ain't gotta feel guilt just selfless, give a little help to the helpless.'

"What a brilliant line, help to the helpless - I've never heard that used ever."

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

Real hip-hop = Atmosphere?!?!?!?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 17:36 (twenty years ago)

find love online!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

give me real us hip hop like atmosphere any day.

hahha dude yr gonna get crucified.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

Yeah man! The Brits have no right crucifying our sovereign genre! Keep your alien beats, weird flows, and bad accents on your side of the pond, I only like hip hop I can nap to!

― greg ginn thought neubauten was bullshit, why don't you? (smile), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

HAHAHAHAH

― monia.l (monia.l), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 17:43 (twenty years ago)

hey Matt, did you ever see all that anti-slug graf that went up when god loves ugly came out? "Fuck Atmosphere" and "Slug Lies" in every bathroom in the city. i thought i heard it was all guerilla marketing, maybe?

― f--gg (gcannon), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

I bet it was guerilla marketing...that sounds like a Rhymesayers type thing to do....funny, though.

For the record, I like Atmosphere.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

i agree. grime is just a really cheap version of hip hop if you ask me. i mean, just look at that terrible run the road compilation that pitchfork were praising, i downloaded it and it's just poor hip hop with horrible british accents over the top. i don't get why the critics love all this stuff though it's probably for similar reasons to why they like mia ie they want to look cool.

― critic hater, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

Profound.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 19:47 (twenty years ago)

critic hater, they don't like mia to look cool, they like her cuz they want to fuck her! get with the program!

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

I like the idea that critics like grime because they all want to fuck underweight black british guys. That should be the new cliche.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 19:53 (twenty years ago)

Three words: "Everybody get random."

― Marc H., Wednesday, 16 February 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

I like the idea that critics like grime because they all want to fuck underweight black british guys.

I would actually quite like to fuck Dizzee! he's really cute. before that I had a mild crush on Oxide, out of Oxide & Neutrino, but he's white. Bruza looks kind of cute in the Run The Road inlay too.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)

haha this is the real reason why Dizzee can't walk the streets of Bow at night

― Alienus Quam Reproba (blueski), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

Fear of harrassment from horny critics?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

the question is when will Dizzee play G.A.Y.?

― Alienus Quam Reproba (blueski), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

things i learned from this thread: kanye west, loretta lynn and brian wilson were 2004's most fuckworthy musicians.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

(btw, argot and critic hater in same ip shocka. dude, go kiss a girl or something, everything'll be cool..)

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

things i learned from this thread: kanye west, loretta lynn and brian wilson were 2004's most fuckworthy musicians.

Two outta three ain't bad.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

you're a weird guy, dom.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

I like the idea that critics like grime because they all want to fuck underweight black british guys

that's cool...critics have been wanting to fuck underweight white british guys for decades, so i'm glad the brother are getting a little action now.

Mark P,

um....Loretta...um....ya know....she don't look too bad for her age, nowhutimsayin?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

Top 100 music videos it would be impossible to sustain an erection whilst watching:

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

1) Hurt - Johnny Cash

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

2. Any celine dion vid.

― stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

and i agree about atmosphere too, atleast they have good lyrics as well as music. run the road is just another bad copy of hip hop, the brits will never get it right and should just give up really.

― critic hater, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

i wasn't saying that critics want to f*ck dizzee rascal, but they probably have fantasies about being his best friend and walking the "grimy" streets of bow together.

― critic hater, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

you are boring and stupid

― adam.r.l. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

and i agree about atmosphere too

hahahah

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

argot, what's YOUR take on run the road? you dudes should hang out!

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

maybe they will get to see some authentic council estate stabbings as well!

xpost

― critic hater, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:27 (twenty years ago)

3) Peter Gabriel - "Sledgehammer"
4) Genesis - "Land of Confusion"
5) Aphex Twin - "Come To Daddy"

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:42 (twenty years ago)

Argot is the drummer for rock band Gay Dad.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

grime is just weak ass limey music.

― 713, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

that's one crowded computer.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

Ha ha.

maybe they will get to see some authentic council estate stabbings as well!

Hey critic hater (plus others): has it occured to you that some of us "critics" might have lived in actual British council estates? Didn't see one stabbing, though. That happened more at footy matches.

This thread is funny.

― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I was about to say, it doesn't kick off on council estates, it kicks off inner-city. Council estates you just get your mobile checked.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 21:34 (twenty years ago)

Ha ha. The more that things change... (I haven't set foot in the UK since @ 1990).

― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

but why are white critics so obsessed with grime being the soundtrack to council estate stabbings/muggings? do they think it's cool or something?

― critic hater, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

they live in hope that people like you might get knifed by a hobo

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 21:50 (twenty years ago)

That's the ultimate goal.

― Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 21:52 (twenty years ago)

Given how many people are currently using this one computer I think we should all hope that this hobo is quite stab happy.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

so it's ok for critics to romanticize impoverished environments where 10 year old african kids get stabbed to death in broad daylight just to publicize a poor man's version of us hip hop? every grime article i read mentions how bad the kids are who make this stuff and how nasty their environments are, addmitedly i'm not a fan of grime, but surely there is more to it than this?

― critic hater, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)

um, yeah, it's not actually that cool to imagine me getting stabbed btw. bit creepy.

― critic hater, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

You should ask Argot.

― Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

surely there is more to it than this?

Ding!*

*I don't know how to make the sound of a cartoon lightbulb going on.

(xpost, haha)

― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

haha this is the real reason why Dizzee can't walk the streets of Bow at night

you may well ask what the real reason for me moving to Bow was (nb this is a joke, semi)

Fear of harrassment from horny critics?

it will certainly not be just harassment if I get my hands on the boy Dylan!

i wasn't saying that critics want to f*ck dizzee rascal, but they probably have fantasies about being his best friend and walking the "grimy" streets of bow together.

did you not read my post? the critics DO want to fuck dizz! with good reason! don't you? if not you have rubbish taste in men.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 23:09 (twenty years ago)

hahaha!

― adam.r.l. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 23:13 (twenty years ago)

if we can now somehow get Dizzee via telekinesis to say 'somebodytoldme you had a boyfriend looked like a girlfriend i had last February' on his next track...

― Alienus Quam Reproba (blueski), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 23:17 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 76 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

yeah, but picasso was dealing with african art, 'other' in that it didn't originate in 'western civilization'. there's a big difference between that and white musicians working in style of 'black music' who 'belong' to the same culture, if a separate subculture within it. prefuse 73 is closer to lil jon than picasso was to any of the anonymous artists he was 'biting'.

― NRQ, Thursday, 17 February 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

OK yeah, big difference but maybe not a category difference? We're still haunted by the 'other' even if the other is not so far away any more or is only another subset of Western culture.

And on that note, I must go. Thanks for the discussion.

― TRW, Thursday, 17 February 2005 15:46 (twenty years ago)

"fuck it, i dont care anyway"

Haha like anyone is gonna believe that.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 17 February 2005 16:19 (twenty years ago)

fuck it, i dont care anyway, like what you want, if you want to like every single bit of crunk or grime or eski-desi-reggaeton-crunkhall, grimeasalsa, to appear cool in front of the blogging community or other music nerds or if you genuinely like it, whateverthefuckever, go ahead! the more buzz MIA gets, the better.

you are very rude. please learn manners. thanks.

― stelfox, Thursday, 17 February 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

you are also wrong about MIA. she's a load of old knickers.

― stelfox, Thursday, 17 February 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

I know that I measure every musical purchase I make by it's accepted "cool" value in the crime community. I wasn't even aware there was any other criteria for listening to music.

Also M.I.A. is great and you are wrong, Dave (also what did you think of the article in the Voice on "Stop Murder Music"/Jamaica/Et all--it's linked from /rupture's blog.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 17 February 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

Crime community should = blogging community there. I must have gotten totally distracted typing that (by this identify theft email which my company just sent to me haha.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 17 February 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

i thought it was pretty good, actually. it was better than the voice's criticism of dancehall, that's for sure.

― stelfox, Thursday, 17 February 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)

(Hey guys, i was just trolling btw. Wasn't it obvious when i mentioned fucking Atmosphere? I was very bored at work, sorry. nice arguments though.)

― Argot, Thursday, 17 February 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

I know that I measure every musical purchase I make by it's accepted "cool" value in the crime community.

Gangsta Gangsta.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

I'm keeping it real on the Webside.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

Anyone reading some of the posts would be forgiven for thinking white middle class people had no right listening to grime because its some sort of one-way cultural traffic - as if those big portentous cinematic Terror Danjah and Ruff Sqwad productions were derived solely from 'black' sources.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

Edgware and Stanmore have their own grime, but it's waaaaay underground.

― adam.r.l. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

I'm waiting for grime-house.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:37 (twenty years ago)

kinda like hip-house.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

arms-house

― adam.r.l. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

As long as it's not head-house.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 February 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

"Grime" as a sobriquet for this music is too close to "Grunge" for my liking.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Friday, 18 February 2005 02:16 (twenty years ago)

yoo guyz know that the person who started this thread is probably a regular ilmer who is having some fun and who has probably never even listened to atmosphere, right?

oh wait: "(Hey guys, i was just trolling btw. Wasn't it obvious when i mentioned fucking Atmosphere? I was very bored at work, sorry. nice arguments though.)"

hahahahaha, never mind, it doesn't matter. he wuz just da grist fer yer mill!

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 18 February 2005 02:23 (twenty years ago)

"you are also wrong about MIA. she's a load of old knickers."

yeah i know shes gimmicky and raps like a baby, but i still like something about her.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Friday, 18 February 2005 08:23 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

See Kano image above then read this.

― VIC MACKEY (nordicskilla), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

that interview is very... riff central!

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

That must be some music writer thing that I don't understand.

― VIC MACKEY (nordicskilla), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

riffcentral.blogspot.com

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:33 (twenty years ago)

It's funny.

Maybe I should do a blog like that.

― VIC MACKEY (nordicskilla), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:35 (twenty years ago)

i think the annie interview is my favorite.

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)

i want to poke my eyes in. DOT HERANDOM!
m.

― msp (msp), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

adam, www.dissensus.com?

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

black and green

― VIC MACKEY (nordicskilla), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

That conversation upthread...wtf. I'm reminded of Lester Bangs complaining about people who owned "White Light White Heat" but the grooves had never been worn, "Sister Ray" had never been played all the way through, a fashionable record to have around the house...the idea that there aren't a bunch of people (I know some) who own rap, grime, etc and don't listen to it is preposterous. TRW was very OTM up thread.

― deej., Friday, 18 March 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

The double negatives there are confusing me.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, "the idea that people own dizzee records and never listen to them is preposterous," i.e. there are lots of people i know (partic. at college) who own "Boy in Da Corner" and never listen to it, ever. But they TALK about it, because its a Work of Genius.

― deej., Friday, 18 March 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

OK i need some sleep, i just fucked it up worse.
"the idea that people own dizzee records and never listen to them is very likely."

― deej., Friday, 18 March 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

I'm not saying its true on ILM, but people I know who read pitchfork and dig indie rock and tribe called quest also own Boy In Da Corner and consider it a masterpiece, but they don't, you know, listen to it.

― deej., Friday, 18 March 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

College people don't count for anything though.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:40 (twenty years ago)

I'm going to hazard a guess that many of Dizzee's sales in the U.S. go to similar listeners. I have nothing to back this up other than anecdotal evidence (everyone I've met in the "real world"'s favorite song is "Fix Up Look Sharp," too) but it reminds me of all those baby boomers who own a bunch of rock records and then like 3 jazz albums they never listen to.

― deej., Friday, 18 March 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

oh I heart RWD!

(re 50 interview)

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

What's funny is that I own some indie rock and Boy In Da Corner and I barely listen to the indie rock!

Poor Dizzee hits some US indie trifecta by being somewhat like an alternate take on what's popular (hip-hop), being British (indie loves british!) and not selling a lot in the US.

― mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

Its especially funny because they talk about his authentic experiences! As if indie marketing is any different than mainstream marketing.

― deej., Friday, 18 March 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

There must be a bunch of peculiar indie strawman-types hanging out at Wooster (and the like), cuz I've never met anyone like the folks that Dee is talking about (not that I would care if I did--who gives a fuck if they own it and don't listen or whatever?)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 18 March 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

Haha these aren't strawmen types at all, but I'm not sure how I'd "cite" a person's existence as a resource.

And I don't really care - I'm echoing Titchy's argument upthread:

I'm just saying that in my personal experience, people use it as a fashionable accessory. They can do this if they want, I do the same thing with other non-musical shit.

― deej., Friday, 18 March 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

indie loves british!

in Britain, indie IS British.

― VIC MACKEY (nordicskilla), Friday, 18 March 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

No in Britain they love bands that haven't made it big in the US which we then reimport because they must be cool if those crazy Brits like them!

― mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 18 March 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

Find threads from I Love Music, subject contains 'grime'.

72 results found:

― DAEREST V1CE MAGAZINE!!!!! (ex machina), Friday, 17 June 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

grime is shit.

― grime is shit, Monday, 25 July 2005 21:20 (twenty years ago)

i have a hard time disagreeing with certain aspects of the trolls' arguments. the one thing i find the most infuriating about grime disciples is how rarely i've heard any of them actually discuss the music itself. almost every article i've read about grime discusses the history of the genre, or how cool it is that there is finally a british hip-hop scene that isn't a lame imitation of american styles. or worse yet: articles by drooling indiewhiteguy authors about how 'authentic' it is. the only people that have helped me understand grime's appeal at all, are DJ /Rupture (via his blog), and various "how to make grime" fruity loops tutorials i've tripped over on google.

seriously, can someone explain the appeal? especially of dizzee?

i have the original grime comp on rephlex and i like it. reminds me a lot more of older industrial stuff than anything else. i also have the impression the artists on that comp are a bunch of white-guy bedroom rocking outsiders. but i can't find anything appealing about this squeaky-voiced dude with no rhythmn and lame rhymes (like rhyming 'there' with 'their').

i was really excited about this genre when i first heard of it. i was prepped for it when i heard it was similar to the streets's first album, which i liked alright... but once i heard it, the love for dizzee's first album just threw me for a loop. if i tried playing this stuff for any of my american hip hop friends, they would laugh me out of the party.

this message isn't meant to be a troll. i really would like to know what it is about the actual music that people like. convince me this stuff isn't all just wack-sounding rappers, rapping over fruity loops beats some stoned guy came up with in 15 minutes. there are too many people i respect who are into this stuff for me to just ignore it. the first thing i'm going to do is check out that compilation, mentioned above, that got the good review on pitchfork.

― ugly and mean, Monday, 25 July 2005 23:22 (twenty years ago)

most people have never fucking heard of MIA. if i said, right now in my office, 'i like MIA', no-one would know the fuck i was on about. what are you saying if not that people don't *really* like it, from which it follows they have no reason to like it, and thus that it is not likeable?

-- NRQ (parsethi...) (webmail), February 17th, 2005 7:08 AM. (link

THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S "M.I.A." DUH!

Ugly and Mean otm. I've only listening to a bit of Grime in passing and I enjoyed seeing Dizzee live, but its mostly been a bust for me. Soverign is good though.

― Tumililingan (ex machina), Monday, 25 July 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

four months pass...

"I would actually quite like to fuck Dizzee! he's really cute. before that I had a mild crush on Oxide, out of Oxide & Neutrino, but he's white. Bruza looks kind of cute in the Run The Road inlay too."

so you dont fuck non black guys?
racist.
youre probably white as well.
traitor.
anyway, youll have to join the queue for white female journalists wanting to fuck grime MCs.

― xxx, Monday, 5 December 2005 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

grime is shit
all you critics making excuses for it with this and that need to wake up and realise for every good tune/artist/rapper/producer, theres a 4390539 others that are BARE SHIT
you can talk about it being the uks real hip hop blah blah and that its made by REAL working class black kids but so what - real working class black kids make hip hop in the us and that shit fucking blows right now

― troll, Monday, 5 December 2005 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

whatever

― Yawn (Wintermute), Monday, 5 December 2005 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

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