"53rd and Third" vs "Wart Hog"

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This seems like a no-brainer to me, but with so many contrarians / iconoclast among you, i'm interested to hear which of these fine songs you think is Douglas's finest.

― Roger Fidelity (Roger Fidelity), Friday, 18 February 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

"Wart Hog" seemed a bit desperate, cliched and stupid at the time (and not stupid in an endearing Ramones way, just stupid in a stupid way). "53rd & Third" was more affecting given its bizarrely lurid, contradictory narrative (he turns tricks and is frustrated because he's not attracting any clientelle, but when he lands one, he ends up slashing them).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 18 February 2005 04:12 (twenty years ago)

...so "53rd & Third," obviously.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 18 February 2005 04:12 (twenty years ago)

"Teenage Lobotomy" remains his finest hour, though.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 18 February 2005 04:16 (twenty years ago)

"Havana Affair"
"Blitzkrieg Bop"

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 18 February 2005 05:01 (twenty years ago)

"53 and Third" is a stone classic, perhaps my favorite Ramones song. The most REALISTIC view of prostitution ever in pop music -- check this out all you pimps & macks & "sex workers." The performances are tops, Joey's vocal slurs make perfect accents("tryna turn a trick") and that arrangement is absoultely EPIC by punk standards w/ Dee's dramatic bridge and the thrilling stop/start false finish. Plus the lyrics commemorate a bygone era, the dank 'n dangerous NYC of the 70s. Is that corner still a boy hustling spot? In the early 80s, a gay friend of mine used to tease me all the time: "Well, Mark, if you ever need $100 to make the rent there's a bar on 53rd St..."

"Wart Hog" is the Ramones on auto-pilot.

― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Friday, 18 February 2005 11:26 (twenty years ago)

When I first went to New York I made a pilgrimage to 53rd & 3rd - seemed a bit dull to me

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 February 2005 11:28 (twenty years ago)

"Wart Hog" is the Ramones on auto-pilot.

otm!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 18 February 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

When I first went to New York I made a pilgrimage to 53rd & 3rd - seemed a bit dull to me

The gay pickup scene there is long, long over. It's just another midtown street now.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 18 February 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

I would think the gay pick-up scene has faded in general, thanks to a large number of gay friendly bars throughout the city

― dan. (dan.), Friday, 18 February 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

I like Wart Hog!

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 18 February 2005 21:20 (twenty years ago)

I've always liked Warthog simply because I saw the lyrics for it printed as "unintelligible" in some sort of official place.

I was a few blocks from 53rd & 3rd the first time I was in New York, but didn't bother checking it out due to time and the fact that everything near there seemed pretty sterile uninteresting - I thought it would have been seedier. I also was excited about being at 8th & Forty-Deuce as mentioned in License to Ill and it too was cleaner and more wholesome than I imagined.

― joygoat (joygoat), Saturday, 19 February 2005 05:17 (twenty years ago)

Part of the attraction of 53rd and Third (the place) was that it was so anonymous. It didn't call attention to itself via any readily apparent cultureal signifiers. Why they chose that particular street as opposed to 54th or 52nd or whatever...I have no idea. But no, don't bother looking for anything there now.

42nd Street, meanwhile, was de-fanged and housebroken well over a decade ago. Long, long gone, I'm afraid.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 19 February 2005 05:29 (twenty years ago)

Both songs are great, but I'll go with 53rd and 3rd for the real visceral pain of it. Warthog was so clearly an attempt to go hardcore (well, less so than "Endless Vacation") that it doesn't have the same impact.

― briania (briania), Saturday, 19 February 2005 05:30 (twenty years ago)

53rd & Third today:

http://www.emporis.com/files/transfer/sixwm/2003/01/179996.jpg

That lipstick shaped skyscraper wasn't there circa Dee Dee's tenure.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 19 February 2005 05:34 (twenty years ago)

sorry...

http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=179996

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 19 February 2005 05:35 (twenty years ago)

from the Andy Warhol Diaries...Mr. Colvin wasn't the only one.

Tuesday, August 7, 1984

"Keith [Haring] wanted to go to Rounds, the gay place at 53rd and Second, and I didn't, so I said I'd never been there because I hadn't in five years, and so we walk in the door and the first thing the waiter says is (laughs) 'Mr. Warhol! It's so nice to see you again!' Jean Michel [Basquiat] wouldn't go to Rounds. He called this morning and told me in the old days when he didn't have any money he would hustle and get $10 and he didn't want to remember that."

― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Saturday, 19 February 2005 11:35 (twenty years ago)

I'll take "53rd & 3rd" just because I've always liked songs that provide a bit of NYC-specificity for those of us who've never been there. But I like "Warthog" too, and for the same reason that Joygoat refers to, above. The publication was CREEM magazine, and Billy Altman commented "Sole intelligible lyric: 'It's a sick world/What can I say?'"

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Sunday, 20 February 2005 23:27 (twenty years ago)

The hustling scene around 53rd and 3rd was pretty low key, at least by the time I moved to New York in '79. I would always look for obvious hustlers when I happened to be walking in the area, but I don't remember seeing any. Rounds was a funny scene, though. A very posh hustler bar/restaurant. They served dinner. It was fun to go there and check out the older gentlemen and their consorts dining quietly in the corner. I remember all the hustlers dressed really preppy, or like well-manicured jocks. I think the seedier crowd was always based around Times Square.

― Guitarthur and the Ecstasy Defecators (Arthur), Monday, 21 February 2005 00:53 (twenty years ago)

The words to "Wart Hog" are in Dee Dee's book 'Lobotomy.' Can't remember if they're also in the CD booklet of the 'Too Tough to Die' reissue, but the original lyric sheet just had a big question mark in their place. Great song, good album.

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Monday, 21 February 2005 01:42 (twenty years ago)

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