'indie kids'

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Why do 'indie kids' have such narrow range of music tastes?
I'm annoyed. I'm just back from djing tonight (or putting on cds one after another) and tonight I had a punter complain that our music wasn't indie enough. This was to the two of us, who between us own records by The Magnetic Fields, Hefner, Heavenly, The Arcade Fire etc.
The punter was complaining because we spent the first hour set playing more electro dance and pop things like LCD Soundsystem, Kelis, Annie, Le Tigre etc.
The fact that we weren't playing The Killers, Franz Ferdinand, The Smiths, The Pixies, The Cure, Libertines, The White Stripes, The Strokes etc meant that we weren't being 'indie'. Why do people expect the same records every single week at an indie night? Don't they get bored? I'm bored of playing them already. They feel that they are so alternative just because they aren't at a student cheesy pop night.
I always thought that these 'indie kids' are indie kids because they want to be different, because they have a love of music. If so, why aren't they more open to different types of music, and just enjoy what is good? Instead of complaining because we're not playing enough songs with people moaning and guitars in them? Or just looking completely shocked and motionless when we play them something dancable that they don't know?
Or is being an 'indie kid' just about fashion?
Anyway, rant over.

― jellybean (jellybean), Friday, 25 February 2005 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

It's just about fashion.

― ffirehorse, Friday, 25 February 2005 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

what a fag

― Fat Anarchy on Airtube (ex machina), Friday, 25 February 2005 03:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Indie as a subculture is as shallow and hypocritical as punk. Both have people taking on their self-described roles as "non-conformists" and the type of people who "don't follow the rules" but you'll notice that both of them have more rules and demand more conformity than anyone in the mainstream.

― Cunga (Cunga), Friday, 25 February 2005 03:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I like a fair bit of the bands you played and the bands you didn't play. It'd be awesome if I went to see someone DJ and didn't know every single song they played. At least I'd have something to try to remember on the drunken walk home.

Maybe some people want to pay five bucks to hear their winamp playlist while they try to grind on girls with 20s movie star haircuts, but that sounds like a personal problem. Try a different club maybe?

― Slim Pickens (Slim Pickens), Friday, 25 February 2005 03:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Was this Vertigo?

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 25 February 2005 03:53 (twenty-one years ago)

that's the thing i find most fustrating... people get really upset when we don't play what they've requested. but if they don't hear it at our night, they can just wait a couple of hours and listen to it when they get home right?
I hated another indie club that I used to go to because they played the same thing every single time, and now I'm doing that.

nope. thurs nights at the cellar.

― jellybean (jellybean), Friday, 25 February 2005 03:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the deal with "indie nights" is that it's a term that been appropriated and seems pretty unreclaimable now. Like, there ARE nights (even in Oxford, maybe!) where people can go who wanna hear cool awesome new things, and there are nights where people who quite like music and find a certain genre of it to work for them can go and drink and have fun. There doesn't seem anything WRONG with that, even if it annoys me kinda bcz disassociatin' yourself from indie seems snobby and ugly. I dunno!

I'm sorry you weren't rewarded for entering CELLAR HELL, anyway :( Tell me next time you play! I will dance.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 25 February 2005 03:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Jon, you seem nervous upthread.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 25 February 2005 03:59 (twenty-one years ago)

(I am obviously saying above that I'm not keen on the idea for me of not ID-ing as an indie kid (bcz I love the magnetic fields etc), not that yr rant is in any way snobby and ugly obv)

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:00 (twenty-one years ago)

It's about sex.

― Miss Burp, Friday, 25 February 2005 04:02 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't mind doing it, because I get paid pretty well for playing rubbish records for 3 hours. it just gets pretty depressing when I see people enjoying records I hate and not open enough to try out the stuff that I like.

The best indie night in Oxford that I ever went to was Sussed, organised by carsmile and tom. it was the night I got my A-Level results, and a whole gang of us went out to celebrate dancing to a mixture of Britney Spears and Belle and Sebastian :)

― jellybean (jellybean), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:05 (twenty-one years ago)

It's because
they long to be
close to you

― Øystein (Øystein), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish I heard more records I knew I loved when I went out :(

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:07 (twenty-one years ago)

One of the more depressing musical trends of the last couple of years has been the spectacle of legions of wannabe hipsters, too nervous to rock out in earnest, falling over themselves to praise The Darkness. “They’re so kitschy, so retro, so metal!” Fuck that. If you want real rock, unencumbered by tiresome ironist and camp gestures, High on Fire will deliver, baby. This is power trio music at its most brutal, delivering an unrelenting hour of single-minded heaviness.

― dikes of igneous rock, Friday, 25 February 2005 04:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"indie kids" basically will never, ever dance to something they don't know.

― shine headlights on me (electricsound), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I might be in for it when I DJ this party next Saturday. Two of the three guys living there are down with country music, so I've got three hours of that set up, followed by three hours of danceable stuff (hence my two recent DJ request threads). The guy who wants the danceable stuff digs on indie dance. But I'm sure he's going to wonder what the fuck is up when I start playing Kelis and M.I.A. and Ada and LCD Soundsystem and Junior Boys. I expect "dude, this blows!"-style complaints. I get tired of playing for people who only want to hear shit they've heard a million times before, because it's really rewarding when I play for people who insist on stuff they don't know.

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Neither will goths, for that matter. WHich means 6 hours of VNV Nation, Wumpscut, Manson, Covenant et al instead of actual bloody goth music. But thats another rant. xpost

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:14 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah and the other fustrating thing for me is that when i was growing up (ie underaged) there used to be a great 'indie-ish' night here where they had interesting music and guest djs like darren from hefner and someone from add n to x (i think). i was too young to go at the time.

It's the same city, but where have those type of people gone? Or are they all hiding at home with only their record player for company?

― jellybean (jellybean), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Love Bar alright, sometimes? I remember the dude getting very excited about the fannypack record, which suggests he cannot be wholly evil.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

seattle is infected with indie fucks, as i like to call them. there are at least 3 identical guys who work at bimbo's. they look exactly the same. it's freaky. i wonder if they are secretly embarrased? they should be. it's such a problem, when walking on Broadway you now have to be very alert to avoid the zombie junkies, the guy that says "spare some change for a hungry man" and identikit indie fucks. what's the deal with the bullet belts? is that indie or some kind of morphing sub-subCulture? there was an idiot at a grocery store (i think) bagging organic veggies wearing a bullet belt! the horror! in newOrleans, it was greasy-headed, rockabilly wannabe's, but Seattle is all about those cookie-cutter, indie kids. i have been taking pics of them recently so i can create a website devoted to ridiculing them. they slyly start posing when the see me taking pics. how i laugh.

― biznotic, Friday, 25 February 2005 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

post that website when you start it, biznotic. I'd contribute.

― TayBridgeCatastrophe (TayBridge), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

why aren't they more open to different types of music, and just enjoy what is good?

Cos The Arcade Fire are dull hyped shite.

― Adam Bruneau (oliver8bit), Friday, 25 February 2005 04:46 (twenty-one years ago)

arcade fire are great, and fuck all y'all, but they're no streets, etc.

"who're heavenly" says yr indie kid. sad but true.

― marc h., Friday, 25 February 2005 05:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm so glad indie wasnt an actual "scene" thang when I was a teenager.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 25 February 2005 05:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"oh yeah and the other fustrating thing for me is that when i was growing up (ie underaged) there used to be a great 'indie-ish' night here where they had interesting music and guest djs like darren from hefner and someone from add n to x (i think). i was too young to go at the time."

They all moved to London when they finished their degrees and set up a night there. The club was Strange Fruit. It really died when the club it was got refurbished into a cocktail bar around 1999/2000.

Narcissists at Baby Love might be the club you're talking about - basically the electro end of the Vertigo DJ list.

― re, Friday, 25 February 2005 09:48 (twenty-one years ago)

East 17 - House of Love. I'm promising you, it works like no other song ever in terms of bludgeoning them into pop submission. After that they'll dance to anything.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)

No matter what kind of night you DJ at, you'll always get the odd person coming up and requesting you play different sorts of music, though. I don't think it's fair to blame it on indie kids. Was the night you played known as an indie night? I mean if I went to a hiphop club and they played the Arcade Fire I'd maybe not be happy.

"indie kids" basically will never, ever dance to something they don't know.

This is the thing.

"who're heavenly" says yr indie kid. sad but true.

Why is this sad?

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Narcissists is too full of those who are trying to hard to be fashionable though. y'know. wonky hair, stripy tops that sort of thing. they annoy me so much.

― jellybean (jellybean), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post

There's no way I'm dancing to 'House Of Love', Matt. Or the House of Love, probably.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Also all that ideological statement stuff upthread is bollocks, the central thing with haircut indie is that there is no ideology other than "I like guitars" and most indie kids I know of don't even pretend otherwise.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

The most annoying name for an mp3 blog name I have come across

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

The club was Strange Fruit. It really died when the club it was got refurbished into a cocktail bar around 1999/2000.

was it called YesBut or something? wow, what a blast from the past. i loved Strange Fruit. i used to dance to loads of (indie) music that i didn't know. i was never a very good indie kid though.

LoveBar is alright, sometimes, i think.

― pete b. (pete b.), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:34 (twenty-one years ago)

give it the fuck up.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:51 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe i have gotten lucky, but i have had far more people ask what something is than ask for a request or complain. i have thus far been pleasantly surprised at peoples' seeming open mindedness. except about bloc party. everybody wants to hear bloc party lately, and no, i didn't bring it.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Friday, 25 February 2005 11:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"Was the night you played known as an indie night?"

is the most important question in all this. jellybean?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 25 February 2005 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

in fact it's ended up being an indie night. we were never give a brief of what we had to play, the venue promotes it as '80s,indie,pop,rock,stuff'

whatever stuff might mean. maybe i should play some v/vm next time.

― jellybean (jellybean), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes! That was it! YesBut.

""indie kids" basically will never, ever dance to something they don't know. "

I disagree. Most people will never dance to something they don't know. I've done bops, balls, clubs and its true.

There's the corallary that someone will always, always complain. No matter which club you're in or what the music is meant to be.

― re, Friday, 25 February 2005 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Oxford almost has enough ilxers for you to launch your own version of Club FT.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I disagree. Most people will never dance to something they don't know. I've done bops, balls, clubs and its true.

OK, indie discos are equivalent to bops, balls, office parties and wedding receptions then.

At actual dance clubs this is no way the case though. The whole thing virtually rests on the DJ spinning new records you don't know. I don't know if the same applies in R&B and hip-hop clubs, never really going to them myself, but I would guess it does to a large, if not as great an extent.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

actually one of the reasons i've got a bit bored of hip hop and r&b clubs in the last few years is that they do play exactly the same records every week, and nothing that people don't know. there is novelty in the mash-ups and mixing and whatnot, but basically people seem to just want to dance to whatever is on the radio. i mean that's fair enough but it is similar to what goes on at indie clubs i think.

― pete b. (pete b.), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

People will dance to stuff they don't know if there's enough of a mix of stuff they do aswell, like presuming we're not talking about going to see Michael Mayer or something here.

Also if you keep playing stuff people DO start to recognise it, which is cool. Last week I played "Fancy Ball" by Le Dust Sucker and there was a huge cheer, I couldn't stop smiling for about ten minutes.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

people seem to just want to dance to whatever is on the radio
That's the problem. I've been to some brilliant nights when I've listened to stuff that I've never heard before, but that's been mainly hiphop-breaks-dance type night. and it's usually with a biggish name dj.. hence why people would dance.

― jellybean (jellybean), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i would just like to point out that i do like to dance to whatever is on the radio

― pete b. (pete b.), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, hip-hop and RnB clubbers are rubbish too.

Dance music 4ever.

My problem with indie clubs is that I am so fussy about indie music that unless I'm v.drunk I will indeed refuse to dance to something I don't like, because I feel like it is encouraging the DJ to play rubbish songs, or because it makes it look like I'm a Cure fan or something, I don't know.

Unfortunately, this policy usually means I can only dance for about three songs in a row at best.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i wanted to start a thread about dancing to music you don't like. it's a very indie thing to worry about i think. i mean there's lots of indie music, for instance, that i suppose i 'hate', but which is good fun to dance to. sometimes i feel guilty while i dance to it. that's pretty ridiculous i suppose.

― pete b. (pete b.), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

What's an example of something you supposely hate, but which is good fun to dance to, pete?

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i think i'm thinking of bands like the kills, the raveonettes, the hives, maybe also the white stripes etc? the garage rock revival people. these are the bands they used to play a lot the last time i was spending any time in indie clubs, a few years ago.

― pete b. (pete b.), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, I guess that's the kind of thing that makes me sit down, except the White Stripes sometimes.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 25 February 2005 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

indie and hip-hop are teh song based and the clubbing acperience is less about ecs and dancing, so they have a bigger barrier than dahnce music in the 'play new records' stakes.

― NRQ (Enrique), Friday, 25 February 2005 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Both have people taking on their self-described roles as "non-conformists" and the type of people who "don't follow the rules" but you'll notice that both of them have more rules and demand more conformity than anyone in the mainstream.

oh my....i'd never thought of it that way before....it's like "army intelligence"...what an oxymoron that is, i say!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 25 February 2005 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt, let it go!

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 25 February 2005 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

alright i'll quit being a dick, i promise this time!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 25 February 2005 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

isnt this basically that clubs are the primary vehicle for dance music, and gigs/shows are the primary vehicle for indie music? that indie clubs primary function is not music as such, but backdrop to an aesthetic?

― ilkley lido (gareth), Friday, 25 February 2005 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

The 3 Rules of indie club DJ-ing... aka Why I don't DJ in Clubs.

You have to play stuff that people:

a. Know
b. Like
c. Can dance to

If you have a problem with adhering to these rules the answer is simple - don't do it.

Personally I much prefer to DJ in pubs because the tracks you play can pretty much ignore any two of these rules at any given time.

Admittedly the money is shit - if you get paid at all - but at least you have your PRINCIPLES.

Get the fuck over it.

― uptoeleven, Friday, 25 February 2005 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

The 3 Rules of indie club DJ-ing... aka Why I don't DJ in Clubs.
You have to play stuff that people:

a. Know
b. Like
c. Can dance to

Sorry, but isn't fulfilling these things a DJ's JOB?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 25 February 2005 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Gareth, you're forgetting the availability of indiesex.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 25 February 2005 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

well indiesex isnt a bad aesthetic;)

― ilkley lido (gareth), Friday, 25 February 2005 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

whatever stuff might mean. maybe i should play some v/vm next time.

I played the V/VM version of 'Angels' once and nobody danced. These people.

― Michael Philip Philip Philip Philip Annoyman v1.0 (Ferg), Friday, 25 February 2005 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Gareth has answered the thread question pretty perfectly, I think.

There should plausibly be an Oxford thread.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 25 February 2005 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, indie is STILL basically outsider music, whatever people say. It just is - university towns are strange places because in a student body, people who were outsiders at school are actually a majority. So indie DJing always ends up seeming to choose either "we are UNITED in our outsiderdom here is the Killers" or "I am the only REAL outsider bitches here is OO_I_OO". And obviously people are gonna prefer the first one.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 25 February 2005 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

ffs guys, you get paid to put records on. some people have to do real jobs.

― scg, Friday, 25 February 2005 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

re: familiarity, if i don't hear cannonball when i go to whelans i start to pout and whinge and become obnoxious to my friends and loved ones. one expects certain things from an indie club.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Saturday, 26 February 2005 00:49 (twenty-one years ago)

As an Oxford person (well, Bicester, but really, there's nothing of interest here except the buses out), that sounds like the club night that I've been looking for! So, yes, let me know when you're playing again, and I'll try and put my dancing shoes on...

― carson dial (carson dial), Saturday, 26 February 2005 02:03 (twenty-one years ago)

i think it was someone from here that won the tonevendor mystery song contest.

― keith m (keithmcl), Saturday, 26 February 2005 02:13 (twenty-one years ago)

The fact that we weren't playing The Killers, Franz Ferdinand, The Smiths, The Pixies, The Cure, Libertines, The White Stripes, The Strokes etc meant that we weren't being 'indie'

are franz ferdinand, the white stripes and the strokes indie? god i hate indie now.

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 26 February 2005 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i think enjoy indie clubs the best when i didn't know what the bands are.

also, as alba and other said upthread if it was advertised to be an "indie" club then it's fair if people say "hey you're not playing indie" but since it wasn't this dude sounds like an idiot anyway.

i remember going to this club called offbeat in sheffield uni a lot when i were younger, they played loads of tunes that i didn't know (not that i knew that many anyway). and i danced loads, and got to ask girls what the tunes were (and they don't know, and so they ask the indie kingpin boy who knows everything, then they make out :( ).

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 26 February 2005 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

ken, do you read the NME?

― Fat Anarchy on Airtube (ex machina), Saturday, 26 February 2005 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

20s movie star haircuts...

sorry what were we talking about?

― hold tight the private caller (mwah), Saturday, 26 February 2005 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

-- Cunga

I liked this post.

It's as if we grow up deciding to be different to our parents and teachers, but we don't quite reach deeep enough to make the changes - so we end up the same, but with different lifestyles.

― moley (moley), Saturday, 26 February 2005 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

As cunga implied, indie per se is not to blame. Not all indie kids are like this. Also, the same DJing experience that jellybrean had has happened to many DJs in many contexts. Sadly, the conservative audience members are the the arrogant ones, the ones who come up and complain. Then again, there's always the other 10% who really appreciate having their minds expanded. I was one myself when I was young! I never came up and gave the DJ a thumbs up cos I was too shy. But I always do now!

― moley (moley), Saturday, 26 February 2005 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

is jon trying to tell me the nme is indie?

― ken c (ken c), Sunday, 27 February 2005 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

my bad ambassador for indie kids would be the one that came up to the dj booth at misshapes NYC and told me quite pointedly that i SHOULD BE PLAYING PULP since the clubnight is named after a pulp song.

or the ones that come up after you've played the smiths and ask for the smiths. bless. short attention span and all that.

― bogo (bogo), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

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