30 most overrated, 8 years later

Jefferson Airplane, "Surrealistic Pillow" (RCA, 1967) - Take away "Somebody to Love" (which belonged to Grace Slick's first band, anyway), and what you're left with are the worst sins of bohemia: Directionless jamming and pretentious hippie twaddle. (Considine)

Cream, "Wheels of Fire" (Polydor, 1968) - Pare it down to the studio sessions, and this isn't half bad. But live tracks - particularly "Toad" - are deadly. (Powers)

The Who, "Tommy" (MCA, 1969) - No, it's not an opera; it's barely even a Broadway show. And a handful of singles do not a cogent statement make. (Powers)

The Beatles, "The Beatles" (The White Album) (Apple, 1968) - The mother of all overindulgent double albums, its strengths are not enough to justify the amount of filler ("Martha My Dear," "Long, Long, Long") on hand. (Considine)

Captain Beefheart, "Trout Mask Replica" (Reprise, 1969) - Weirdness for its own sake may be worth recording, but this virtually makes a fetish of Beefheart's quirks, in the process undermining the band's musical strengths. (Considine)

The Grateful Dead, "Workingman's Dead" (Warner Bros., 1970) - Though among the band's best, it remains unremarkable countrified psychedelia larded with lumbering hippie jams. (Gunderson)

Velvet Underground, "Loaded" (Rhino/Atlantic, 1970) - Yes, it's got "Sweet Jane" and "Rock & Roll," but in general too much wimpy light and not enough heat. (Browne)

Sly and the Family Stone, "There's a Riot Goin' On" (Epic, 1971) - Except for the great "Family Affair," this aural sludge will have you nodding off faster than whatever Sly was on at the time. (Browne)

George Harrison, "All Things Must Pass" (Apple, 1971) - The all-time most overrated record, it was praised to the skies at the time, and got five stars in the first Rolling Stone Record Guide. (Christgau)

Marvin Gaye, "What's Going On" (Tamla, 1971) - Good as the singles are, the album as a whole is remarkably shallow, more a testament to the arranging skills of David Van dePitte than to Gaye's singing or songwriting. (Christgau)

Allman Brothers Band, "At Fillmore East" (Capricorn, 1971) - Their jams may have seemed timeless if you were in the audience, but on album they're simply interminable. (Browne)

Pink Floyd, "Dark Side of the Moon" (Capitol, 1973) - Dour, airless, emotionally shut down, "Dark Side of the Moon" made a fetish of a form of artistic solipsism that, in rock, came to be known by the same word that got Jocelyn Elders thrown out of the Clinton administration. (Powers)

King Crimson, "Red" (EG, 1974) - Pretentious lyrics and mock-portentous singing is bad enough, but it's the needless complexity of the riffage that ultimately sinks this. Heavy metal with postgraduate pretensions. (Marsh)

Eno "Another Green World" (EG/Virgin, 1975) - Making interesting sounds involves craft; turning them into great music demands artistry. Unfortunately, this album never gets better than crafty. (Marsh)

The Eagles, "Hotel California" (Asylum, 1976) - "Life in the Fast Lane" vividly depicts the excesses of SoCal yuppie culture. The rest is merely excessive. (Gunderson)

Ramones, "Rocket to Russia" (Sire, 1977) - Musically, the Ramones said all they had to say by the end of their first album. All this third LP adds to the equation is a patina of instrumental competence. (Marsh)

Rolling Stones, "Some Girls" (Rolling Stones/Virgin, 1978) - Apart from Keith Richards' "Before They Make Me Run," what at first sounded fiery now seems sloppy, arrogant and affected. Nor has the casual racism of the title tune aged well. (Browne)

Gang of Four, "Entertainment!" (Infinite Zero, 1979) - Funk for people who wouldn't be caught dead with a Rick James album in their library. (Marsh)

Pink Floyd, "The Wall" (Columbia, 1979) - "We don't need no double album / We don't need psychology / No dark glimpses at rock star's childhoods / Hey! Pink Floyd! Leave that stuff alone." (Gunderson)

Frank Zappa, "Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar" (Barking Pumpkin, 1981) - On second thought, just shut up. (Powers)

Minutemen, "Double Nickels on the Dime" (SST, 1984) - Sloppy punk-jazz and even sloppier sub-beat poetry from the most overrated band of the '80s indie rock scene. (Browne)

The Jesus & Mary Chain, "Psychocandy" (Reprise, 1985) - Retro-rock melodies laced with ear-wrenching distortion may work for a single. It does not justify an entire album. (Considine)

Prince, "Sign "o' the Times" (Paisley Park, 1987) - Though there are moments of brilliance ("U Got the Look," for example), others, such as "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" and "The Cross," are enough to make you doubt Prince's sanity. (Considine)

Guns N' Roses, "Appetite for Destruction" (Geffen, 1987) - It's fine to endorse the cathartic and menacing qualities of the L.A. band's savage rock, but too many fawning pundits ignored the obvious Spinal Tap parallels and, worse, turned a deaf ear to misogyny, bigotry and racism. (Gunderson)

Don Henley, "The End of the Innocence" (Geffen, 1989) - As instrumentally overblown as the worst art rock and as lyrically shallow as any psychobabble. Proof that if you say something stupid with a straight enough face, people will think you're a genius. (Christgau)

Liz Phair, "Exile in Guyville" (Matador, 1993) - Cussing girl singer meets blushing boy critics and a rock queen is crowned. And did anybody ever explain how, exactly, this was supposed to equal "Exile on Main Street"? (Anderson)

Dr. Dre, "The Chronic" (Death Row, 1993) - Some albums seem better in retrospect; this one seems great only because we've heard the singles in remix. (Christgau)

Guided By Voices, "Bee Thousand" (Scat/Matador, 1994) - Badly recorded, Beatlesque song fragments may make for an interesting aesthetic statement. But great rock? Get serious. (Powers)

Smashing Pumpkins, "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" (Virgin, 1996) - The only thing more pathetic than wallowing in teenage angst is doing so when you're in your 30s. Billy Corgan's every-note-is-sacred approach to recording doesn't help matters, either.

HUGE

The Beatles
VU ("Loaded" is overrated? Compared to their other albums?)
Greatful Dead
Eno

SOME

GnR
Smashing Pumpkins
Rolling Stones

Whenever people pick examples to prove how much filler there is on the white album, they're always songs I love. "Long Long Long"?!

The Sly one seems the second-most mental to me.

Who might these strange beasts be? NAME NAMES.

I agree pretty strongly with most of the list, except for Entertainment, Dark Side, There's a Riot Goin On, The Chronic. Way to go Christgau for taking on sacred cow What's Goin' On.

Considine hating on "Ballad Of Dorothy Pakrer".

I'm gonna use the line in general too much wimpy light and not enough heat in every review whether or not it applies.

J.D. Considine [Baltimore Sun]
David Browne [Entertainment Weekly]
Dave Marsh [Playboy]
Ann Powers (Spin]

Everyone knows Christgau. My favorite line of his from that same article is "I would love to say Black Sabbath is overrated, but I don't think anybody takes them seriously."

It was published in several rags, including the Tampa Tribune, the Cleveland Plain-Dealer, and the Buffalo News (the occasion was responding to Rolling Stone's 200 Top Albums list).

The Beatles, "The Beatles" (The White Album)
The Grateful Dead, "Workingman's Dead"
Marvin Gaye, "What's Going On"
Pink Floyd, "Dark Side of the Moon"
Eno "Another Green World"
The Eagles, "Hotel California"
Rolling Stones, "Some Girls"
Pink Floyd, "The Wall"
Liz Phair, "Exile in Guyville"
Guided By Voices, "Bee Thousand"

They're right about these.

The Who, "Tommy"
Captain Beefheart, "Trout Mask Replica"
The Grateful Dead, "Workingman's Dead"
Velvet Underground, "Loaded"
George Harrison, "All Things Must Pass"
King Crimson, "Red"
Ramones, "Rocket to Russia"
Gang of Four, "Entertainment!"
Minutemen, "Double Nickels on the Dime"
The Jesus & Mary Chain, "Psychocandy"
Prince, "Sign "o' the Times"
Guns N' Roses, "Appetite for Destruction"
Dr. Dre, "The Chronic"
Smashing Pumpkins, "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness"

Couldn't say about these.

John Mayall, "Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton"
Jefferson Airplane, "Surrealistic Pillow"
Cream, "Wheels of Fire"
Sly and the Family Stone, "There's a Riot Goin' On"
Marvin Gaye, "What's Going On"
Allman Brothers Band, "At Fillmore East"
Frank Zappa, "Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar"
Prince, "Sign "o' the Times"
Don Henley, "The End of the Innocence"

Does anyone else have this problem? Did anyone used to have this problem? Ugh. I'm going to lock the door, turn on the lights, and listen to Spiderland at full volume.

NIHILO SANCTUM ESTRE?!?!

(Oh, and, for the record: OTM Loaded, What's Going On?, Psychocandy, although they all feature some classic tracks.)

Uh, like who in the world really considers John Mayall's Bluesbreakers "rated" at all--some moldy old bluesniks in Ohio?
The Allman Brothers?

I don't know what to say about Sly's "Riot." If you don't get that, you got some problems, in my book. Ditto poor old "Trout Mask Replica," I mean what's the problem there? I never gave too much of a shit about Van Vliet's lyrics, some of them are OK, I just like the drums and guitars on that one. I'm old, I started listening to that record in about 1978, and it was already nine years old at the time, and it never even sounded that weird to me even then, and sounds less strange now. It's a given Van Vliet was trying to be weird on that record, and thank the Lord he didn't totally succeed. And right, must remember that Dave Marsh owns funk music, and that we are obligated to consider bands like Gang of Four as "funk" because that is what we know and love. Dave Marsh is takin' it to the streets, man.

This fool actually thinks Prince is -- sane!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

funny, i was gonna say hugest problem: considine hating on "the cross."

Maybe they just hate it ironically?

funnily enough, entertainment gets five stars -- from one j.d. considine -- in the last dave marsh-edited version of the rolling stone record guide, while every rick james album gets three stars.

funnily enough also, it's possible no reader of marsh's own assessment of rick james in that same book would be cajght dead with a rick james album in their library because marsh writes off seven rick james albums in a total of four sentences that boil down to "skillful, if not terribly inspired."

wait a minute, that might not be j.d. considine. i jumped to that conclusion that that's what "j.d.c." stood for in that book. but j.d. isn't listed as a contributor. then again, neither is anyone with the initials j.d.c. so i have no idea who wrote that gang of four review. either way it doesn't get marsh off the hook.

Captain Beefheart, "Trout Mask Replica"
Sly and the Family Stone, "There's a Riot Goin' On"
George Harrison, "All Things Must Pass" (Apple, 1971)
Marvin Gaye, "What's Going On"
King Crimson, "Red"
Eno "Another Green World"
Ramones, "Rocket to Russia"
Rolling Stones, "Some Girls"
Pink Floyd, "The Wall"
Frank Zappa, "Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar"
The Jesus & Mary Chain, "Psychocandy"
Prince, "Sign "o' the Times"
Guns N' Roses, "Appetite for Destruction"
Dr. Dre, "The Chronic"
Smashing Pumpkins, "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness"

right:

Jefferson Airplane, "Surrealistic Pillow"
John Mayall, "Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton"
Cream, "Wheels of Fire"
The Who, "Tommy"
The Beatles, "The Beatles" (The White Album)
The Grateful Dead, "Workingman's Dead"
Velvet Underground, "Loaded"
Allman Brothers Band, "At Fillmore East"
Pink Floyd, "Dark Side of the Moon"
The Eagles, "Hotel California"
Gang of Four, "Entertainment!"
Minutemen, "Double Nickels on the Dime"
Don Henley, "The End of the Innocence"
Liz Phair, "Exile in Guyville"
Guided By Voices, "Bee Thousand"

OTM. Other guesses would include:
Favorite book: The Sound & The Fury
Favorite author: Heidegger
Favorite instrument: (tie) harpsichord/xylophone
Favorite movie: The Seventh Seal
Favorite vacation spot: MoMA

"mellon collie" was actually a good album, pavement s.p. disses notwithstanding.

gang of four hardly needs my accolades.

the white album? only one of the top three reasons i ended up here, anyway. hardly matters what considine thinks.

This is funny but, as an album, who exactly rates it? Other than Zappa fans, who we can obviously disregard.

The Rolling Stone Top 200 albums list referenced upthread

I am indeed the J.D.C. in The New Rolling Stone Record Guide, edited by Dave Marsh and John Swenson (Random House, 1983). Contrary to what some in this thread apparently believe, it is not uncommon for critics to disagree with one another and respect that disagreement.

Other points: I don't know that any of us particularly "hate" the albums listed. The key word in this piece is "overrated": works that are considered great but aren't. I suspect the lists would have been different had everyone been asked to list the albums they hate. Also -- and I'm kind of surprised I need to point this out -- the basic intention of articles like this one is to be provocative and get readers to reconsider their views. It is almost by definition impossible to call something overrated if a certain amount of the readership isn't going to say, You're crazy! That's a great album!!

I can't speak for the others, but personally I don't love Yo La Tengo. (I'm assuming Vegemite Grrrl is merely trying to be funny.)

Finally, I'd be curious to know how this came to be rediscovered. I'd long forgotten the piece, but then, that was years ago and in another country...

Velvet Underground - Loaded
Sly Stone - There's a Riot Goin' On
Rolling Stones - Some Girls
Allman Brothers - Live at the Fillmore
Minutemen - Double Nickels

For example, many people might agree that the White Album is indulgent and has filler - though it is perhaps telling that no two people will agree on exactly which part is the filler.

Also, hating on Sign O Times because it makes you "doubt Prince's sanity" seems kind of like hating on Nevermind the Bollocks because it makes you doubt Johnny Rotten's allegiance to the monarchy.

I don't think you do need to point this out -- it's pretty much assumed around here.

OTM

i certainly understand and respect that! i also understand and respect that critics sometimes change their mind. i just found it amusing that dave marsh would select entertainment as an overrated album, and use rick james as a counterexample of an actually funky (and presumably worthy) artist, when he himself was the editor of a canon-creating guide (i grew up calling it "the bible," for whatever that's worth) that gave entertainment its highest rating and treated rick james as a middling afterthought. i happen to love a lot of marsh's writing. but it's still amusing to me. and interesting.

Dave "Moses" Marsh's judgements always make me reconsider the music in question. i.e. if he hates it there must be something good there.

You know what other '77 album is better than Bollocks? Animals. Deal with that shit.

"animals" is great, btw.

Hahah. All too true.

Brilliant. You should be a music critic! :)

Richard Hell and the Voidoids ("Another World" notwithstanding)

Poppycock. What's wrong with it?

-- Alfred Soto (sotoal...), February 25th, 2005.

A good solution for you, then, would be to only listen to two songs from All Things Must Pass at a time. There sure are a lot of good ones on that album from which you can choose!

i found dave marsh's singles book really useful as a guide to old r&b, doo wop, that kind of thing. but he is SUCH A FUCKING AWFUL WRITER that i have to be careful about actually reading those entries before listening to the song so i don't get turned off beforehand.

You assume correctly. Serious use of such an insult (ie: loving Yo La Tengo) is reserved for close personal friends & people who cut me off when I'm driving.

"Dark Side of the Moon" made a fetish of a form of artistic solipsism that, in rock, came to be known by the same word that got Jocelyn Elders thrown out of the Clinton administration. (Powers)

Hmmm. Wasn't she that old Surgeon General that said kids should jack off into condoms more often? Or something to that effect. Erm... what exactly does that have to do with Dark Side of the Moon? I sure as hell don't hear any jackoff guitar solos when I listen to Dark Side of the Moon! You wanna hear jackoff guitar solos go listen to Yngwie Malmsteem or Steve Vai or someone like that.

a. this is bcz masturbation (in the solo context) always happens alongside imagination: a fevered dream of a glorious better version of the world-as-it-exists

b. roger waters IS a depressive solipsist, w. a tendency to take wilful pinched pleasure in shutting out the world-as-it-exists = he's NOT MASTURBATORY ENUFF

c. haha plus also what does it mean if the record you are dismissin as "masturbatory" wz famous for stayin at no.1 for 100000000000 months cz word-of-mouth sed it wz great MUSIC-TO-HAB-SEX-TO

d. PF's prob is surely more that a group of foax consisting in the main of NON-depressive NON-solipsists (the others are amiable and sensible, generally) shd be willing (at least in the context of DSotM) (and the wall, which is worse) to be so subsumed w/i the MOST recessive and self-imprisoned of their various minds and styles...: it's a kind of world-class virtuosity of denial

b. and c. make for an interesting creative contradiction, but it feels like the listeners brought this in: certainly the creators never grabbed the baton (ha!) and ran w. it

This is the equivalent of a self-professed art critic writing of Guernica, "omigod what kind of drugs was Picasso on when he drew this? look, both of that guy's eyes are on one side of his face lol".

"I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", "Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder" and "It's Not Me" are great. "EMI" and "Submission" and "Seventeen" are meh.

I think you overhate it.

He spent the afternoon sipping from a bottle of Cognac, a beverage I associated w/my parents, rather than a quart of Stroh's. FWIW...

Says you.
(ok I'm not that big on "Submission" either, but the other two fuckin rock!)