Important question from new contributor

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I have been reading the posts on this site for some time with a mixture of bemusement and admiration at the sheer level of music obsession.

However, as this is my first post so I thought I’d better make it an interesting, perceptive and debate-enraging burning question.

Basically – where the hell do I file ‘Bubblegum’ by Mark Lanegan Band???!?!

I’m not actually anal enough to have alphabetised my CD collection, but I am sad enough to keep a spreadsheet with them all listed.

I suppose I will just apply the same logic as PJ Harvey, which are under P as technically that’s the name of the band as I understand it, rather than H for Harvey, PJ as I would do with a solo artist. So am I right to put Mark Lanegan Band under M, and not L???

Any thoughts on this important issue?

Steve Claire (Rhinoboy), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

L. You don't file Easter under P because it's the Patti Smith Group, right?

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Under B. Band is his surname.

Buffalo Stan (Buffalo Stan), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey Steve, hope you enjoy ILM. :-)

nathalie doing a soft foot shuffle (stevie nixed), Friday, 25 February 2005 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Albert Ayler Trio goes under A. Same rule applies.

Michelle, Friday, 25 February 2005 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

the alphabetical placing of PJ Harvey records is the subject of a long running, bitter and wholly pathetic dispute between me and a friend. and whatever he or anyone else says, you have got it right. unless the name specifically refers to one individual alone, use the first letter of the first word (excluding 'The').

Lee (fsharp), Friday, 25 February 2005 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Andrew WK?

dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 25 February 2005 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i am unsettled and confused too.
is it "Bubblegum" the

/successful SY (mf) song file
or /SY (mf) covers file (aka /SY can play like any other rock band but pretend they're different file)
or /Sonic Bitch (mf) excuse file
or /L for Langegan (m)
or /Fowley, Kim, (male) file
?
is it the same song ?
so, L F (m) SY-side (mf) SoBx

'cause all stuff given the SY/NY stamp is thus rendered exponentially important to rock curates. SY are by definition the primary cultural tract of substantative rock dilligenté, especially with such this successfull art-in-disguise pop, so the connection to them is really much more important than any other little details.

if this is a different "Bubblegum" song, the SY crossover, however slight, is still probably the most important thing to tag as footnote, even if merely in the interests of American posterity and scholarship.

george gosset, Friday, 25 February 2005 14:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I have problems with Eric B & Rakim. "B, Eric & Rakim" sounds so... librarian-like.

Also, The 101'ers. It seems a little de trop to file them between The O'Jays and Ooberman.

Don't even get me started on !!! and ? & The Mysterians.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Friday, 25 February 2005 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

punctuation comes before numbers comes before letters, surely?

box box box box box (cis), Friday, 25 February 2005 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

JSBX has become an acceptable substitution for Jon Spencer Blues Explosion. So file under "J"? Or keeping with the Patti Smith Group rule, does it go under "S"?

I think that's why they changed their name to The Blues Explosion.

alex in montreal, Friday, 25 February 2005 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Just put it in the category you're most likely to look for it under when next you go to play it (Obviously I am not an anal retentive audiophile)

the other kate (ffs!) (papa november), Friday, 25 February 2005 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

If you file it properly, you won't lose it and then experience the thrill of finding it when you come across it a later.

Put it in that one stack of CD's next to that old casio in the corner by the window...

Garibaldianne (Garibaldianne), Friday, 25 February 2005 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Just chuck em in random piles like I do. All the crap gets pushed to the back eventually and sometimes if your fortunate enough it will fall somewhre never to be seen again


As for the album you mention. Do you have a bin? ;-)

Jessie the Drunk Dutch Mountain Dog (Jessie the Drunk Dutch Mountai), Friday, 25 February 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Steve

are you that Leeds Hooligan guy? Your name rings a bell.

Jessie the Drunk Dutch Mountain Dog (Jessie the Drunk Dutch Mountai), Friday, 25 February 2005 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I avoid this problem by just stacking everything all random-like on every available surface possible, and then forgetting where I put the damn thing, and then d/ling the disc for listening purposes. I am currently trying to skip a step by ripping the CD to my PC before "filing".

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 25 February 2005 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I have problems with Eric B & Rakim. "B, Eric & Rakim" sounds so... librarian-like.

Only if you add a tag field so that the record can be searched with an "and" in place of the anthasand.

hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

oh..and file your cds by genre, according to the Library Of Congress Classification System. I'm surprised you aren't doing this already.

hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I never know where to file A Perfect Circle, or ...And you will know us by the Trail of Dead (please nobody say in the bin)

Right now theyre under P and T.

dmun, Friday, 25 February 2005 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

(please nobody say in the bin)

I might've said that about the first band you mentioned :)

the other kate (ffs!) (papa november), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I file A Tribe Called Quest under A, and if you don't lie it you can suc it!

Austin (Austin), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, Sun Ra goes under R, not S.

Austin (Austin), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Technically, they're proper names without a subfield. You would file them under "A". Unless of course you operated a filing system which ignored terms such as "a", "an" and "the", in which case, you would file under "Perfect".

Actually, it would be theoretically possible to file the latter band under "." - I think the usual practice is to place that at the start of the alphabet.

But really, if you're going to build up a decent collection, you'll need something better than a paltry alphabetical system. I spit on your alphabetical system.

Also, don't attempt to file CDs by colour of spine. Its a rubbish idea. Things have different colour spines to what you think they do.
Oh yes.

hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Steve, do you put all your 'The's' together under T and then follows up alphabetically eg The Adverts, The Business, The Cock Sparrer????

Jessie the Drunk Dutch Mountain Dog (Jessie the Drunk Dutch Mountai), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

JSBX has become an acceptable substitution for Jon Spencer Blues Explosion. So file under "J"? Or keeping with the Patti Smith Group rule, does it go under "S"?

I used to file them under 'B'! I mean, even before the name change, everyone just called them 'Blues Explosion,' anyway. Now I think they're under 'S.'

Re: A Perfect Circle and A Tribe Called Quest -- why wouldn't you think of the "a" in the same way as "the" and drop it?

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

The indefinite article, to my mind, places itself as part of the band name and not merely a 'silent' label. Also, there's a lot fewer A bands than The bands.

Austin (Austin), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks for the assistance people.

Just to clarify a few points:
As I had previously said I'm not anally retentive enough to file my actual CD's, but just anal enough to have them on a spreadsheet (could come in handy in the event of burglary or it could be that I just like looking at lists of CD's)

Paul - thanks for the support ya Hull yob, for the purpose's of filing I would ignore 'The' and file as Who, The (for example) which I believe is in direct alignment with universally acknowledged correct way of filing stuff and that. Probably ancient handed down through time librarian rules or something.

Steve Claire (Rhinoboy), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Re: A Perfect Circle and A Tribe Called Quest -- why wouldn't you think of the "a" in the same way as "the" and drop it?

But using that logic you would have to drop the 'A' from 'A' and they would just be ' ' Where would you file that?!?!!?

Steve Claire (Rhinoboy), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Who, The (for example) which I believe is in direct alignment with universally acknowledged correct way of filing stuff and that. Probably ancient handed down through time librarian rules or something

no no no no no no NO!!!

NOOO!!!!!!

Somebody get Archel over here to sort this mess out!

hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Re: A Perfect Circle and A Tribe Called Quest -- why wouldn't you think of the "a" in the same way as "the" and drop it?

Its your choice.. you can either use the "a" or the "the", or you can overlook them as aberrations, brought on by those with no respect for cataloguing practice. But you MUST BE CONSISTENT, otherwise all hell will break loose. Literally. I'm warning you.

I would advise ignoring such flim-flam and concentrating on the main title. Or do what I do. Don't bother organising your CDs at all. Great, unless you want to find something.

hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

How about you just put your CDs wherever the hell you want and then actually leave your house and go talk to a girl?

flink, Friday, 25 February 2005 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Talk to her about filing. Girls love that. So I'm told.

hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

By a girl.

But she might have been lying.

hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

best "introduction" thread ever

cutty (mcutt), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

YOU FILE BO DIDDLEY UNDER D????
LITTLE RICHARD UNDER R?????????
WTF.

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Friday, 25 February 2005 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"Little Richard" would be "L", as it would count as a byname.

dunno about Bo Diddley.

I'm bored of talking about cataloguing now. Time to go back to cataloguing.

hobart paving (hobart paving), Friday, 25 February 2005 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost:
Talk to her about filing. Girls love that. So I'm told.

An early boyfriend of my stepmother made her sit down and help him file his record collection... for hours... on end. Not just stacking them in order, either: they had to write out each song title on a card, and file the cards away in an index.

She ended up chucking the scissors across the room at him and storming off ... and that was the end of the relationship.

Caveat alphabetisor. Or something.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Friday, 25 February 2005 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Re: A Perfect Circle and A Tribe Called Quest -- why wouldn't you think of the "a" in the same way as "the" and drop it?

I have to agree with hobart's reservations re: this kind suggestion.

''A Certain Ratio'' being a lyric, a band name and vital parameters for your spreadsheet, the risk of programmers' drift places variable names, functions and actual values in jeopardy of cross-contamination, potentially organising sound out of sync with the currently fashionable modular approach and possibly even running the risk of spewing forth some now hopelessly unfashionable jarring juxtapositions.
No-one wants to be heard to be flaunting a post-modern taste in 2005, so music fashion being what it is i would advise extreme caution.

Generation X could ruin your dinner party.

george gosset, Friday, 25 February 2005 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

The Idiot's Delight Digest (on Topica; archived on www.cherk.com under "Disk Full!") has covered this extensively;
and Nick Hornby's rule of thumb works for me: "Danny Wilson" is a band and not a person in the band.

PJ Harvey -- is her real name. so H. you can also solve most dilemmas by just filing by first name, actually first NOUN (so all the 'The's' and 'Los' 's aren't together. -exception: DJ. - just file by whatever follows 'DJ')

Genya Rayven - is a pseudonym for Goldie Zelkowitz. If you want to file things in order and are anal enough about it, you could put 'em both under G. But do what works for YOU. Just remember where you FILED the damn Mark Lanegan for the next time you feel like slitting your wrists over how to alphabetize.

Lanegan -- L. Or, if you wish, G for good.

Jesus. You people.

I have no answer re Andrew WK. Personal prerogative.

Dan Aloi (67Dano), Saturday, 26 February 2005 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

i file my lps by colour to make big pale seurat paintings (except for pointillism read lignilism)

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 26 February 2005 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

At least REM albums tell you where they should be filed

Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Saturday, 26 February 2005 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

J. Geils Band albums must be filed under "J" and Matos is a mentalist.

J (Jay), Saturday, 26 February 2005 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

band, geils, j.

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 26 February 2005 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Fela Kuti: file under F or K?

Curious George Rides a Republican (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 26 February 2005 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

fork

Snake, Saturday, 26 February 2005 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

(and today really seemed, for a change, a quite simply day. and then why o why did i check this damn thread? fukk!)

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 26 February 2005 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Alice Cooper, Elton John. What's the rule on made up names that fit real names?

nickn (nickn), Saturday, 26 February 2005 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, "Pop, Iggy" feels a bit silly, but whatchagonnado etc.

I ignore "the"s, but not "a"s and "an"s. I'm trying to be consistent across languages though, so "Les Negresses Vertes" go under N, and "Der Plan" under P.

OleM (OleM), Saturday, 26 February 2005 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I generally put the ones where it's a real person's name with Band or Group or whatever under the person's surname. The important thing is just giving yourself a good chance of quickly finding what you want. I'd also rather keep things together. A good friend of mine has Iggy Pop under P, Iggy & the Stooges under I and the Stooges under S, which goes too far for my tastes. I ignore 'A' or 'The' or 'DJ'. My local library in Leicester, which also ignored certainly 'The' at least had the gloriously labelled 'The, The', which I loved.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 26 February 2005 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Cataloguing needs to be adapted to what you know about your own habits. If you know you'll get lazy and eventually put Mark Lanegan Band under L because you just want to put the damn thing away, put him under L and damn the torpedoes. If you're a responsible cataloguer who never gets lazy, go for M.

Alice Cooper & Elton John go under C and J. They've never recorded under their real names, so what's the confusion?

VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 26 February 2005 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Obviously Gabor Szabo goes under H for: Hungarians With a Z In Their Name.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 26 February 2005 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, "Pop, Iggy" feels a bit silly, but whatchagonnado etc.

Well yeah, I have a 'cyclopaedia where ol' Ig is listed just thusly, under "P": The Penguin Enc. of Popular Music. Nothing doing, yes.

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 26 February 2005 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

at least had the gloriously labelled 'The, The', which I loved.

that is fucking awesome.

Anyone Who Can Pick Up A Frying Pan Pwns Death (AaronHz), Saturday, 26 February 2005 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)


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