The new Tori Amos album is fabulous

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I love Tori, She's just the best.

Zarr, Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:31 (twenty years ago)

A second opinion

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

i'm sure the gay boys will love it.

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

I'm sure the homophobes will nod fiercely in approval at the last post

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

Interesting review... I never got into the habit of analysing Tori's lyrics and there's only one of her albums I never bothered with (the covers one) but otherwise I own every LP she's done. Never really listed to Boys from Pele (the nadir of her career) or Scarlett's Walk (overlong and same-y) but at her best she manages to illicit a beauty that few other artists manage. A euphoric feeling... such a beautiful voice and feel to her best work.

The new LP has such spots and so I'm pleased with it. Whether she's a spent force or not is a mute point to me as long as she has that voice that first made me woozy for her records...

Zarr, Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

yeah that was silly, i apologise.

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

there must be a thread about gay-boys obsession with tori somewhere though.

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:43 (twenty years ago)

duh--I should've figured you weren't serious, Jed.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

Zarr, have you read the book yet? I'm curious about it, mainly because they interview Tori's chef (also I'm friends w/the coauthor)

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

Don't know much about her, but I found the new single to be quite bad.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

it is mediocre in the extreme. exceptionally disappointing considering Scarlett's Walk was really, really strong, probably her best album.

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:49 (twenty years ago)

Can we just move 40 years into the future for Tori's Cash/Lynn album?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:50 (twenty years ago)

THERE'S THE INFIDEL!!!

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:51 (twenty years ago)

http://www.confusionroad.com/article_images/mob.jpg

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:52 (twenty years ago)

Never really listed to Boys from Pele (the nadir of her career)

i think it's her best album! (i haven't heard scarlet's walk or the new one tho.)

jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:52 (twenty years ago)

Miccio, you'll be happy to know that on my blog I'll be running the best comments from Tori fans on my review over the next week. The one up there at the moment is my favourite.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:53 (twenty years ago)

Tori in order:

Little Earthquakes
From The Choirgirl Hotel
To Venus and Back
Boys For Pele
Scarlet's Walk
Strange Little Girls
Under The Pink
The Beekeeper

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

I'm guess Pele would be my favorite. Only song of hers I've heard that wholly grabs me in the mental jukebox is "Hey Jupiter"

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 00:59 (twenty years ago)

Hmm, I'd say Under the Pink is her best record! Then Choirgirl, Little Earthquakes, Pele, and the others after that.

daria g (daria g), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:03 (twenty years ago)

Dom, what earthly reason do you have for starting your review like that? It doesn't matter what you think of the record, that's just despicable. What is wrong with you?

daria g (daria g), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:05 (twenty years ago)

I keep seeing that picture with that crooked expression on her face and it really bothers me every time I see it.

RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:08 (twenty years ago)

Dom, what earthly reason do you have for starting your review like that?

300% readership increase. Welcome to capitalism.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:10 (twenty years ago)

The flash of humanity occasioned by the starter of this thread amuses me.

A friend of mine has gone on about this album several times. Honestly I didn't even know it was out until she said it was.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

the cover design of the new album is very nice, in a forward-thinking-car-ad kinda way.

jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

i'm curious about this record. my estimation of tori has gone way down over the years (choirgirl hotel was the last time i cared about her other than that video with adrien brody and one or two songs from her covers record), but i still think she's occasionally capable of greatness.

jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:18 (twenty years ago)

The most awkward thing about Tori now is the fact that her album covers nowadays are more airbrushed than (contemporary pop star heavily reliant on airbrushing)'s.

Although, when they make her look as rowr as this:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000E2Y9A.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I don't mind.

Shame she can't make good music any more.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:18 (twenty years ago)

but i still think she's occasionally capable of greatness.

I honestly can't put my finger on what it is that's seen such a decrease in her abilities over the past five years. As I (somewhat sensationistically) said in my review, she's a woman that's always seemed to thrive from a certain buzz to her work, when she's grappling with an issue, and now she seems to have a pretty comfortable life, where's the intrigue? It's like second album syndrome, except ten albums into her career.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:20 (twenty years ago)

Oh, don't give me that bullshit, Dom. You sound like Ann Coulter. Great, OK, driving traffic to your zine by saying somebody ought to kill her daughter - no problems there? Am I the only one who thinks this crosses a line? Excuse me for being humorless, it's rare that I am, but for crying out loud, I can't manage to wrap my brain around how somebody casually tosses off a sentence like that and shrugs.

daria g (daria g), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:24 (twenty years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00076EPQM.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

in another ten years she'll look like jeanne-claude!

http://prelectur.stanford.edu/lecturers/christo/portrait1.gif

jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:27 (twenty years ago)

Boys from Pele (the nadir of her career)

If you live on Bizarro World! Boys For Pele is her best record by a million miles.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:27 (twenty years ago)

Am I the only one who thinks this crosses a line?

did you not scroll down to the bottom? plenty people do. Dom's line is pretty vicious but I dunno, I thought prefacing it with 'i'm going to hell anyway' makes it clear that the author is aware of what cruel joke he's making and that making it doesn't reflect kindly on himself.

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:28 (twenty years ago)

plus I read 'James Taylor Marked For Death' at 14

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:30 (twenty years ago)

Yes, I'm sure there are dozens of outraged responses from Tori Amos fans for you all to mock at your leisure. I'm sure that'll be gratifying.

Sheesh. Yes, I noticed the preface. Casual viciousness bothers me. It's easy, and cheap, and stupid. I do think some of the crazy over-the-top boiled-them-in-their-own-filth invective that gets thrown at people who make bad art is quite funny, can't you all just stick to that?

daria g (daria g), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:35 (twenty years ago)

Dom manages the ILX Dead Pool. Check if he's put little Amos jr down on his list.

Bumfluff, Tuesday, 1 March 2005 01:43 (twenty years ago)

My fave Tori LPs in order:

Little Earthquakes
From The Choirgirl Hotel
Under the Pink
To Venus and Back
The Beekeeper
Scarlet's Walk
Boys for Pele
Strange Little Girls

Zarr, Tuesday, 1 March 2005 02:29 (twenty years ago)

A quote from the review that miccio linked above:

These are halcyon days for the genre, FM radio hasn’t sounded as good since 1985—it’s a good time to be running away from the underground.

Is this true?

I suppose this could be a thread of its own .....

ffirehorse (firehorse), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 03:15 (twenty years ago)

I don't know. I've always found her a bit too insular and precious (a la Kristin Hersh).

I love(d) that Librarian cover though. I also liked most of her Little Earthquakes-era stuff. (You know, "God," "Silent All These Years," etc.)

And the lyrics to "Glory of the 80's" are fantastic.

ffirehorse (firehorse), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 03:23 (twenty years ago)

not being snobby or anything, but i was pretty sure that subject line was going to be sarcastic. surprising. i just never would have guessed that so many ILM'ers would like tori. surprises abound.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 03:29 (twenty years ago)

I really connected with her as an angsty teen (no surprise there), but as I've gotten older it just stopped... happening for me, I guess you could say. I'm glad artists like her exist, though — people who can enjoy solid support from their label despite not having a top-selling record or mid-America appeal.

I like imagining what it would've been like to see a pre-fame Tori on "American Idol." Probably wouldn't have made it through the door, alas.

sugarpants (sugarpants), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 03:32 (twenty years ago)

that cover art is fucking terrible. what is with that smirk? she looks all lopsided, and, well, like a weird illustration. bah I hate this album.

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 03:36 (twenty years ago)

I wasn't wild about that opening, either, Dom. (Which I guess I feel like I should point out, so it isn't only women, like Daria or Clem, who are saying it.)

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 03:43 (twenty years ago)

i don't like tori at all and am the most offensive person i know and i still thought it was wrong.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 03:45 (twenty years ago)

It's not got anything to do with being a woman and I didn't much like the record in question anyway.. it's more having some sense of basic decency. When have I called out anyone or picked a fight on this board before? I don't think I ever have. You should take that shit down and apologize instead of using it to get a rise out of people so you all can make fun of them.

Maybe, if the whole having any concept of right and wrong whatsoever just isn't your bag, another reason to take it down would be that it risks permanently tarnishing the reputation of your entire site. And if you say you don't care about that, I suspect more of your readers than you think are going to have a real serious problem when you start messing with somebody's kid.

daria g (daria g), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 04:47 (twenty years ago)

Tori hasn't had a good album since Boys for Pele. I think it's time she slunk back off into obscurity.

kate/baby loves headrub (papa november), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 04:52 (twenty years ago)

The new Tori Amos album is fabulous

well, maybe, but the new tori amos promotional display is freakish.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 06:21 (twenty years ago)

precious (a la Kristin Hersh)

pardon? not to go on a tangent, but i wouldn't call 'House Tornado', for example, precious.

derrick (derrick), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 06:41 (twenty years ago)

could anyone steer the poor slsk-less me toward the leak? gracias.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 07:31 (twenty years ago)

Oh, don't give me that bullshit, Dom. You sound like Ann Coulter. Great, OK, driving traffic to your zine by saying somebody ought to kill her daughter - no problems there?

You see, this is the thing though. The only way you could take what I'm saying to mean that someone should kill T*sh Am*s is if you think that the artistic output of an artist is more valuable than their personal happiness. I don't think that. I never said that.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 08:23 (twenty years ago)

were you hoping for this sort of reaction when you wrote the line?

Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 08:33 (twenty years ago)

Yes. The whole incident has made me really really cynical about other "controversial" reviews from other internet music publications.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 08:35 (twenty years ago)

how so?

Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 08:36 (twenty years ago)

It reads like the review was written specifically to get that line in. I don't care about the sentiments expressed, really, I've read worse in Vice, so that's nothing. I know it's just there to shock. But that's what sucks about it. Daria's right, it's easy, cheap, and stupid.

One could argue, "If it gets a reaction, it's done its job", and if the job is to get hate mail for your blog, then that's okay I suppose. Mission accomplished. I'm just not sure what the point of it is. It just feels desperate.

Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 09:25 (twenty years ago)

Tori in order:

From The Choirgirl Hotel
Boys For Pele
To Venus And Back
Little Earthquakes
Under The Pink
Strange Little Girls
Scarlet's Walk
The Beekeeper

I still consider the first three to be some sort of genius pinnacle of music: I don't obsess over them as much as at the time, but they still floor me every time I put them on, and it's nice to be reassured that no, it wasn't just me being an angsty teenager and yes, they are fucking awesome pieces of work.

The new album is a bit dull. If she'd pruned half the songs and actually gone to the trouble of arranging the rest interestingly (as opposed to soporific bass + muffled drums + tinkling piano on EVERY FUCKING SONG), it would have been rather good - there are some pretty tunes hidden in there. That said, it is a bit sad that an artist of Tori's calibre now only has 'pretty tunes' as her redeeming quality. And it's VERY sad that where she once treated the piano as some kind of bizarre bridge between the rock and the baroque, she now plays it like she's auditioning for Coldplay.

I don't really buy the Tori-thrives-on-tragedy argument though, mostly because the album which shows her at her most innovative and adventurous (Venus) was written post-marriage - and even Strange Little Girls displays a desire to stretch herself artistically, even despite its flaws, and that was as recent as 2001. It's possibly just getting old - she realises that it wouldn't be dignified to be contorting herself in the throes of emotion at the age of 42, but she doesn't quite know what to do instead.

The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 13:59 (twenty years ago)

lex's second paragraph otm (still haven't heard the new alb but will check it out today)

jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

the paragraph that starts with "the new album is a bit dull," that is.

jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 14:03 (twenty years ago)

Haha the second paragraph is exactly what I thought about Scarlet's Walk when it came out but The Beekeeper makes SW seem almost interesting - SW is AOR-dull and over-long too, but there are some amazing melodies and at times she seems to be deliberately creating an extreme of prettiness with the layered backing vocals.

The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

she does have a way with a melody.

jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 14:10 (twenty years ago)

I'd still give her one so if she wants to have an affair with me then that might wreck her marriage and give her something angsty to write about. I mean - she's Tori Amos so she's still one of the most do-able women alive.

Zarr, Tuesday, 1 March 2005 14:32 (twenty years ago)

If you read the book, I think it's clear that what needs to happen is not tragedy, but disruption. For instance, she needs to not work with her husband on her albums anymore--she needs to get a producer who will challenge her rather than let her indulge all her safe little Tori-isms. She's built up a lovely little support structure, and while I can understand why she'd want to do this (and I don't necessarily begrudge her the AOR successes she's had of late), at the same time she's settled in happily with her fanbase and whoever else she happens to pick up. She's not being harsh enough with the songs, and she's not being critical enough with herself. I love her too much to be OK with the idea that she's going to be one of those artists who just sinks into a rut and never comes out. Oh well.

Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

I guess that what underlies Dom's patently absurd (if hardly Lestertastic) lede is the assumption that there's a fundamental, essential link between an artist's "real life" and the art she makes. This is both silly and astoundingly flattening as a description of art. But focus, folks: as an article of faith, this idea doesn't belong to Ms. Passantino, but to Tori's fans.

NB: I LOVE TORI'S MUSIC, and I love that her fans are so committed. But the form of their commitment is identification, the way every litle drop of the art has to come back to, be a comment on, justification of, condemnation of, a "real life" that the fans recognize as real and like their own. What a terrible box to put any artist in, even one who sometimes courts such relationships with fans -- it totally fucks up the possibilities of aesthetic pleasures, among other things.

Dom's flippant crack should do something useful, which is sort of make highly visible this trap. And I think that the responses which take Dom's suggestion seriously, as an actual ethical position, do a good job of revealing exactly this problem. Dudes! How can I love any of these songs if they're required to exist in a universe where they're constantly measured for their righteousness rather than their beauty, humor, mood, surprise? And ditto how can I love music crit in that universe?

I love Anthony Miccio, Tuesday, 1 March 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

I love music criticism a lot less with 'reviews' like that in existence

the middle's fair enough, but if he can't figure out what's wrong with the beginning and ending of that review, he really should stop writing. it's okay to be a rabid fan, but that review... it reminds me that people who send mail bombs are self-righteously convinced that they're trying to 'help'

(Jon L), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

Are you equating writing music reviews with mail bombings?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 19:20 (twenty years ago)

how old are you?

(Jon L), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

Do you understand the point I'm making though, ie: try reading what was actually written and placing it in the context of the artist's career (because I wouldn't have written about, random example, Cheryl Tweedy's "colourful" recent history in a Girls Aloud review because her private life has no actual impact on her music and she's never offered it up for discussion as part of her artistic package, which is why Tori Amos fans are second only to Marilyn Manson fans in inability to differentiate the artist and the art), rather than thinking three or four steps beyond what I was saying. The equivalent of me asking "Are you equating music reviews with mail bombings?".

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

i think dom's review is stupid. stylus is usually above this kind of crap.

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

x-post

I understood your 'point', you're obviously a dedicated fanatic who truly cares about the work, the review contains an entire career overview, you know every record, and your point is that this is a new low. To the point where you feel it's okay to suggest that she could make better albums if her kid were murdered, and sign off your review with snarking about cosmetic surgery... that's not professional, or helpful, that's just contemptible. And shows a real confusion about the relationship between a listener and the human behind the music you seem to love.

I've been let down by artists to soul-crushing degrees too, to the point where it occurs to you as a fan that you nearly need to stage some kind of Intervention or something, but seriously, reconsider your profession if you think it's okay to publish things that ugly. Let alone proceed to whine about 'controversy' and 'readership'. What's your goal here?

milton parker (Jon L), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

"Haha the second paragraph is exactly what I thought about Scarlet's Walk when it came out but The Beekeeper makes SW seem almost interesting - SW is AOR-dull and over-long too, but there are some amazing melodies and at times she seems to be deliberately creating an extreme of prettiness with the layered backing vocals."

Yeah this is right, but, then, when I think of Tori taking prettiness to extremes with backing vocals I think of "Father Lucifer" from Boys For Pele rather than anything from Scarlett's Walk. The frustrating thing about Tori's new AOR direction is that, even if you like Tori-AOR, focusing on it explicitly was not necessary because it was always already there. And when people describe Boys For Pele as impenetrable I think, "well, there's the lyrics and the abrupt shifts in style/tempo/mood, but in terms of infectious songcraft that period was surely her peak (you can bet that if any Tori song was gonna become a standard it would be "Hey Jupiter" or "Baker Baker" or "Putting The Damage On"). The frequently circulated idea that all of Tori's talents (even when recognised as such) somehow fall outside the realms of traditional, conservative songsmithery as we understand it has always been totally bogus; it applies to her as little as it applies to Stevie Nicks, regardless of the differences in chart placings.

I'm not even sure if Boys For Pele is my actual favourite (really everything up to To Venus & Back is fantastic in my opinion) but it's my theoretical favourite, the answer I feel most comfortable giving, because it's the moment when the sheer breadth of Tori's talents are most carefully laid out, and her irresistibility in spite of her contradictions is most clear (because she's at her most irresistible and most contrary).

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

If you read the book, I think it's clear that what needs to happen is not tragedy, but disruption.

What's the book like? If this was '96 I'd've lapped it up but right now I fear lengthy excursions into hippiedom and rambling explanations of the concept behind The Beekeeper.

But the form of their commitment is identification, the way every litle drop of the art has to come back to, be a comment on, justification of, condemnation of, a "real life" that the fans recognize as real and like their own. What a terrible box to put any artist in, even one who sometimes courts such relationships with fans -- it totally fucks up the possibilities of aesthetic pleasures, among other things.

Agreed that if relentless fan/idol identification becomes a box then it can be unhealthy (for the fans, for obvious reasons; for the artist, who can become complacent, as Tori seems to have), but I actually think that the prevalence of such full-throttle identification among Tori fans is something which is not only really fascinating (as much as the Tori nuts irritate me, it's equally irritating to see them dismissed out of hand, as if how they relate to the music is less valid than how rational, objective minds would) - but also fundamentally based on certain qualities in her music and lyrics.

Yeah this is right, but, then, when I think of Tori taking prettiness to extremes with backing vocals I think of "Father Lucifer" from Boys For Pele rather than anything from Scarlett's Walk.

I dunno, it's a different sort of prettiness - the "Father Lucifer" backing vocals are pretty but also unnerving and confusing: the triple round thing she pulls can totally fuck with your mind. The layers and layers of high-but-not-too-high-register vocals throughout Scarlet's Walk are soothing and gentle, and it's that type of extreme prettiness which characterises it.

Post-2002 Tori-AOR's truly great moments - "A Sorta Fairytale", "Strange", "Taxi Ride", "Virginia", "Gold Dust" (from Scarlet's Walk); "Snow Cherries From France" (from her greatest hits collection); "Seaside" (from the bonus CD which came with last year's live DVD which - shockah - has not been mentioned so far, and probably will never be again); "Sweet The Sting", "Hoochie Woman" (from The Beekeeper).

Tim - I say Choirgirl is my theoretical favourite for exactly the same reasons; in practice it's probably To Venus And Back right now.

The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 23:12 (twenty years ago)

And it's one that no number of facelifts or chemical injections can hide.

Tori Amos in 1994:

http://img30.exs.cx/img30/534/toriamos19947tz.jpg

Tori Amos in 2005:

http://img30.exs.cx/img30/3623/toriamos20051jw.jpg

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Wednesday, 2 March 2005 02:23 (twenty years ago)

Oh my that is quite sad. She's better than that I would have thought? Why the face lifts?

Taxi Ride and A Sorta Fairytale are better than anything on Beekeeper - agreed - but the rest of Scarlett's Walk really does seem to drag on and on.

Zarr, Wednesday, 2 March 2005 03:27 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...
As a long time HOMO SEXUAL, and avid Tori fan I have to say that "Strange Little Girls' signified an end of an era for me personally. There were like 2-3 (rattlesnakes & real men) songs that were good & the rest was crap. Now "Scarlet's Walk" had it's moments of greatness, but was so concerned with telling the story that the arrangements & the story got a bit lost at places (for me). "the beekeeper" needs a new honeycomb cuz their queen bee is all dried up! "Barons Of Suburbia" & "Hoochie Woman" are about the only two songs that I care for. You know to me it's a sign of bad things to come when an artists core audience is getting younger & younger for the most part. "Under The Pink" is my fave record, closely followed by "Boys For Pele."

zeropointDL (zeropointDL), Sunday, 20 March 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)


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