Pet Theory I: Cyclical Upheaval

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There seems to be musical upheavals equally spaced throughout Pop history. Some ninny keeps insisting that its every 11 years to coincide with sunspot activity. (1955, 1966?, 1977, 1988?, 1999, 2010)
I've heard 14 years bandied about (1955, 1969, 1983? 1997?) and 4 (1955, 1959, 1963, 1967, 1971, 1975, 1979, 1983, 1987, 1991, 1995, 1999, 2003)
I'd say its roughly every 7 years (1955, 1962-1963, 1969, 1977, 1984-1985, 1991, 1998, 2005?) which seems to work nicely but ONLY if you use 1955 as your starting point.
So when should we expect some great, beautiful, apocalyptic musical upheaval to make the current crop of crap (N*Stynk, Starsailor) to go bye bye? _______________________________________

― Lord Custos, Friday, 11 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This is obviously to do with sunspots.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 11 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the theory i've heard most often re: rock cyclicism involves an upheaval every 13 years..
1951 (ike turner and his kings of rythm - "rocket 88") - 1964 (beatles on ed sullivan?) - 1977 ("god save the queen") - 1990 (?)..
it's a bullshit theory anyway.

― marek, Friday, 11 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the days of great upheaval are over, & I think that all that upheaval bull from the lamer sort ov muso journo in thee past is as often as not becuz thay have a few mates in bands they want to push, & it's a konvenient hook to hang it all on. Sorry.

― Norman Phay, Friday, 11 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i said it becuz i have mates in sunspots

― mark s, Friday, 11 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

HEY MARK S i SAID THE LAMER SORT OF MUSICK JOURNO WHICH != YOU, RIGHT? mind you, sunspots do rox0r

― Norman Phay, Friday, 11 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

yes, I hear they have a new split with Face on Mars ... um i gotta go

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 11 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The fact that so far in this thread absolutely no-one has taken the cycle-theory seriously gives me much hope for mankind.

― Tim, Friday, 11 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm a fan of the every year theory--each year, every year, there seem to be a helluva lot of great albums... go figure!

― Clarke B., Saturday, 12 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I thought everybody knew that the Strokes were going to save us all. Either them or So Solid Crew.

― Honda, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

So Solid Strokes. Ew, that sounds wrong.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I agree with the theory that popular music has expanded and fractalized far too much for a new upheaval. Take a look at hip-hop, which took years to become ingrained in the mainstream. Take a look at artists like Hootie The Blowfish and Alanis Morissete, but are now only ripples. I'd be surprised if there are ever again any true upheavals, despite the music press.

― Squirrel Police, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

... And why do we automatically want an upheaval anyway? I'm not really sure I'd trust a record that *everybody* thought was revolutionary.

― Tim, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

... And why do we automatically want an upheaval anyway?

Two reasons...Reason 1) Because every time theres an upheaval, an embarrasment of more-interesting-than-usual music comes out. Reason 2) As a punk fan, I just instinctively dig chaos, disorder and activities that seem to have no meaning.

I'm not really sure I'd trust a record that *everybody* thought was revolutionary.

Neither do I. I just care if its fun or not.

― Lord Custos, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What happened in 1999 (or maybe 1998)? I was obviously asleep at the time.

― Jeff W, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The thing that has screwed the upheaval theory is that the last upheaval happened in 1991 for the US and 1988 for the UK and Europe.

― Tom, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Eeernt! Wrong!
I'm Sorry, Tom but that answer is not correct.

1988
US: Raps high-water mark(NWA, Public Enemy)
UK: ?

1991
US: Subpop/Grunge goes supamegmainstream and kills hair band metal
UK: Shoegazer/Baggy/Rave each reach their high-water marks.

― Lord Custos, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Actually...the real problem is that no-one agrees on how long the cycles are and how it affect certain cultures and subcultures.
All we know is that six points are year-zero for some new musical cataclysm.
The Beginning of Rock (1955)
The British Invasion (c. 1963-65)
The Summer of Love (1967-1969)
Punk (1977)
Grunge (1991)
Post-Rock (1998)

― Lord Custos, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

LC what are you getting at with all this?

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Lord Custos - 1988 = the second summer of love, dance music explodes in the UK, spreads to Europe and effects - finally - the break between US and Old World pop history. (The fact that you don't associate 1988 with anything revolutionary is kind of evidence for that.)

― Tom, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But it's cheating to count the birth of some genres and the high- points of others, Lord Custos. ie. 1977 may have been the birth of punk, but it's certainly not the high-point for me in terms of great music from that movement.

(Not to mention that '98 certain != year zero for post-rock, whether you start with Spirit Of Eden, "Summer's Last Sound", Hex or Millions Now Living Will Never Die. Although in your favour I've never seen a list like this that hasn't had to hedge dates a bit. But... by 2, 4, possibly 10 years?

― Tim, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sure...in the UK. But it wasn't until 1991 that this stuff started to affect things across the pond. In 1987-1988, The Gangsta Rap upheaval was in full effeckt, yo. So 1988 was was a possible upheaval year, but what it affected depends on where you live.

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

LC what are you getting at with all this?

Transmissions by the Black 'Lectroids from Planet Ten.

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

In 1987-1988, The Gangsta Rap upheaval was in full effeckt, yo.

87? The hell it was. If you're going to date it to anything, go with Straight Outta Compton, late '88 -- and most of the attendant attention/controversy happened the following year.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ah, I see someone else got the Buckaroo Banzai DVD.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

So 1988 was was a possible upheaval year, but what it affected depends on where you live.

LC...this was my original point ;)

― Tom, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That's not LC! It's another one! Though both have very wonky reasoning, heehee.

― DG, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But it's cheating to count the birth of some genres and the high- points of others, Lord Custos.
Huh?

ie. 1977 may have been the birth of punk, but it's certainly not the high-point for me in terms of great music from that movement.
Wellll...sure, there was alot of really groovy post-punk from 1978-1981, but still:
Half of the truly great ("first wave") punk records, and 2/3rds of the truly great British-style punk singles ("Oh Bondage, Up Yours", "Gary Gilmores Eyes", "In the City", "I'm Stranded", "Less Than Zero", "Orgasm Addict") came out in mid-1977. With 2/3rds of the truly great British-style albums (Damned Damned Damned, LAMF, Pure Mania) coming out in late 1977. This is without even mentioning the Cl*sh or the S*x P*st*ls at all.
They call most punk (as in non-"proto-punk", non-"post-punk") bands "The Class of '77" for a reason.

(Not to mention that '98 certain != year zero for post-rock, whether you start with Spirit Of Eden, "Summer's Last Sound", Hex or Millions Now Living Will Never Die.
I had to take a wild stab. I'm not as well versed in Electronica (I should've used the word "electronica" instead of the more pompous sounding "Post-Rock"; but I was afraid the thread would devolve into a "What is 'Electronica' then?" a question to which I do not have a good answer.)

Although in your favour I've never seen a list like this that hasn't had to hedge dates a bit.
Thats exactly my point. I'm not really trying to prove/disprove the theory itself. I'm sure we all agree that "Upheaval Happens", I'm desperate to know when the next one will hit.

But... by 2, 4, possibly 10 years?
Depends on which version of the theory you're using. The whole US/UK thing is becoming more of a problem than I had anticipated.

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That's not LC! It's another one! Though both have very wonky reasoning, heehee.

We're like the Phantom from the old comic strips. When one Lord Custos dies, another takes up his mantle and fights...grime?

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm sure we all agree that "Upheaval Happens"

No, we don't all agree. At least, I don't agree, not in the sense you mean. Punk happened. Dance music happened. But upheavals don't have to happen as a rule.

― Tim, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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