if there had been no huge crackdown on free raves/festivals would there now be more travellers, less superclubs/superstar DJs or would it have made little difference to how the UK music scene/youth culture is at the moment ?
― , Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
related note: wuz this how the tories cut
their own throats in the late 80s-early 90s,
culturally - by launching an attack on the
upcoming wave of libertarian entrepreurs,
only place they had a chance of garnering a
(large-sized) future generation?
― mark s, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
I think the total number of people arrested for raving under the CJB
so far has been zero.
The CJB was similar in its effect on UK
dance music/culture to the PMRC's effect in America - where the
genres of metal and hip-hop were effectively stamped out, nosedived
in popularity and were basically extinguished.
― dave q, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Sinker's bang on here: the Tories, at the time, still thought that
Olde English traditionalists would be enough on their own to win them
elections, and were perfectly prepared to gang up on vast swathes of
Thatcher's children, because they didn't understand the anti-
traditionalist effect that Thatcherite libertarianism had had.
They still don't. That's what got them where they are today.
― Robin Carmody, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
..PRMC was an advert for Rap. Weren't sound systems seized under the
CJB or is this an urban myth ? I'm not saying it led to the downfall
of dance culture just a different dance culture. I'm not saying it
would be better either - organized crime would still take it's cut
and the E-casualty numbers would have gone up. I just feel that less
dance records would have been bought - as dance would have been even
more faceless. The music press would have had even less hold on being
the gatekeepers to sound. Maybe Britpop would not have been so big,
maybe UK metal would have been more psychotropic ?
― , Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
if Oasis existed in the alt. universe they would be sarge pepper from
the off and Liam would MC during the break.
Blur would be like early Floyd and 'second coming' would be produced
by Adrian Sherwood
― , Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
is very difficult to know, but up to 92 the traveller phenomenon was
absolutely huge (of course it was the medias plaything that year
which made it appear even bigger). as such this seems to have almost
disappeared (in comparison at least). i think the eventual
corporatization of club culture would have happened anyway, but i'm
not sure. one thing is certain, the black market utopian blag economy
became the controlled corporate club culture of today, how much this
is down to the cjb and the destruction of 'alternative' lifestyle
groups who had put on parties and raves with semi-utopian ideals is
difficult to say. i don't think it initiated anything, just speeded
up the inevitable.
i think, in a way, the cjd was rather unnecessary, what it was trying
to stamp out would have been finished within 3 years anyway. the
inevitable cosmopolitanization of dance music, and shift from
makeshift and 'scuzzy' to 'classy' and 'nice', plus the moving in of
entrepeneurs in it for the long game rather than a quick buck, made
the rave in a field, traveller vibe, mix of all sorts of people style
times endangered anyway.
this meant the more recent Creamfields type phenomenon, of raves
organized like festivals, a dancier version of glastonbury/reading
were controlled more tightly, by legit operations and the rest.
without the cjd i think this would have happened anyway, but without
dance musics 5 year hiatus from the fields
― gareth, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)