In Praise of .....Peter Gabriel by Peter Gabriel (his 3rd album with the melty face cover)

(...also, a few years back nu-metal special-ed class Coal Chamber released a version of "Shock the Monkey" with vocals by Ozzy Osborne that's one of the most wonderfully ill-conceived covers I've ever heard. I'm pretty sure it was intended seriously and not as some kind of satirical performance art, but I can't be too sure. SHOCK THE MONKEE TOONIGHT)

Very dark record. His music was huge for me in high school, I even loved 'So'... though he's one of those artists who's later work took such a downturn that it somehow became difficult to listen to the earlier records, this is still an amazing record.

probably the best, though I usually choose one of the first two records the few times I listen to him these days.

x-post no I love Gabriel-era Genesis too. I never got into Yes (except maybe recently via ILM hivemind) but I'll take lyrics about giant hogweed conquerors over whalesaving anyday

You know what I love? The weird little intro to "Not One of Us".

Hmmmm.. is there not? I hadn't noticed.

I suppose So was a perfectly great pop record, but it really sounded the death knell on his creepy side, which I find a bit sad. I haven't heard a note of his last one, so maybe I'm wrong about that, but I just can't summon any enthusiasm to hear it.

'Digging in the Dirt' is the one and only good song on Us -- but it's a great song. The 5" CD has a great instrumental version and one other very cool instrumental that's better than anything on Passion (which I never really got into).

The first track on Up is called 'Darkness', and if you love Three you should probably check it out -- it's the one track that's actually scary, and not just some side-effect of a therapy session. But -- program the CD player so it only plays that track and then shuts down, because if even the first note of the second track comes on...

The absolute nadir was Ovo. That one really hurt. But even there, if you like Elizabeth Frasier, the last half of the song 'Downside-Up'... pretty great.

Obviously just saying all this is a sign of how much I loved those first three... and the next three were great too (security / birdy / so)

Just a glimpse of the mindfuck vid for "Shock the Monkey".

Here's a question. Just what is going on on this album cover?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000065VCP.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Does anyone have that DVD of PG videos? Been thinking of picking it up. God, I wish there was a 70s Genesis live DVD.

Peter Gabriel is one of those people I like more as an artist or an idea or an ESSENCE than perhaps his career as a whole might warrant. I mean I can say without reservation "I love Peter Gabriel" but it doesn't mean I have all his albums and have studied all the ins and outs of Genesis or whatever. He has a signature style, very bass heavy (in fact that's one reason why I like Jeff Buckley's cover of Genesis' 'Back in N.Y.C.' because he just keeps pounding this bass note at regular metronomic intervals exactly like Gabriel would have had it - it sounds more like Gabriel than the original!)

Unfortunately, though I ran into a bit of a stumbling block with pre-"So" Gabriel because as a teenager I saw the film "Birdy" and fell in love with the soundtrack (and the film!) which consisted of instrumental bits and pieces of things from Gabriel's solo records (including this third album) mixed with some other instrumentals I believe he did specifically for the film. So the problem was that when I later bought the actual records, I found it really hard to accept that some of these songs had vocals, etc. and also found it difficult to interpret them as whole albums. Everything was associated with the film for me. Which was kindof unfortunate.

But III is probably the strongest of his pre-So solo albums. I never really got into Genesis, either with Gabriel or Collins singing, though I did buy "Trespass" and heard plenty of Gabriel-era Genesis on the radio. After the Buckley cover, I bought Lamb Lies Down On Broadway but alas, it just didn't hold my interest.

"So" probably deserves a thread of it's own - does it have one yet? I will say that is one album that really stuck in my brain over the years for reasons I can't understand or explain. I mean I still randomly hear lines from that record in my head from time to time, despite the fact that I haven't played it in its entirety since it came out, and I don't mean lines from the hit singles, either. It's really spooky. Yes, Sledgehammer sucks, but Big Time is even worse and neither really harm the other great stuff going on there.

I remember taping Us from the radio station I DJ'd at. I didn't think it was so bad at the time, but since it was 1992, my focus was still very heavily on the Brit indie scene, and I didn't pay as much attention to it as I might otherwise. When Up came out I almost got it...but didn't. I doubt it's any worse than Us, though. He may not be as good as he used to be but I do believe Gabriel can only be so bad, if you know what I mean.

I apologize for the length of this post but I relish the opportunity to talk about Gabriel. He just never seems to come up or get talked about very much, at least among the people I've come across.

I particularly remember liking "Lead A Normal Life". Wish I could recall more about this record. Hell, I wish the CD shop was still open...

Oops, try Foxtrot or Selling England By The Pound sometime. Trespass and Lamb are kind of bad places to start.

Alex, you make me want to listen to a lot of different music at the same time.

As for Lamb, while PG-era Genesis fans continually debate over whether that or Selling England is their best record, it's never a good idea to try to get into almost any band with their sprawling 2CD set, in my experience. Maybe the White Album would be an exception, if that.

xpost

Phil Collins only plays on a few tracks on III; the rest is longtime Gabriel drummer Jerry Marotta (brother of Rick, he of Steely Dan fame). Jerry was eased out during the "So" sessions, in favor of Manu Katche. There are some tracks on "So" with bits and pieces of three drummers (also including Stewart Copeland), as well as drum machines. Yet nothing on "So" sounds cluttered, surprisingly.

But I digress: Phil apparently bristled at the "no cymbals" rule of "III." Actually, it was a more specific "no metal percussion" rule. But, boy, did it work.

I remember reading that the crazy sounds at the end of "Games Without Frontiers" is Jerry Marotta and Peter Gabriel throwing equipment around the studio, which Steve Lillywhite then sped up. There's also an amazing remix of this song by Massive Attack, which sounds to my ears more like a complete reconstruction, down to new Gabriel vox. But I've never gotten confirmation on that. Nor have I ever looked, come to think of it!

The video for "Shock the Monkey" scared the shit outta me in fourth grade. Classic VH-1 plays it a lot and I was able to record it a few days ago....it still works. And it was his first Top 40 hit!

I've always thought "So" was one of the few really popular albums that happens to rank with the artist's best work.

Regarding the "Selling England" vs. "The Lamb".." thing, I think the point is that "The Lamb..." tends to be favoured by rock fans in general, while Genesis' most devoted fans are more likely to favour "Selling England" (or maybe "Foxtrot", because of "Supper's Ready")

And that title track certainly sounds a lot like the stuff he would later do as a solo act.

Was being the operative word, by his own admission.
From Phil Collins' website:

THE MUSICAL BOX IN GENEVA..... there were many questions about this, so I'll try to put it all in perspective..... Originally the Band asked me to write the programme notes for them. I said this was no problem. I suggested that if they were coming to a town near me, that I'd come to see them. When it turned out that they were playing in Geneva, I suggested that I might play with them. It ended up that we decided that I would play their encore of The Musical Box. I left it till the day of the show... a dangerous thing to do !!! I went downstairs to my basement where my drums are, and I tried to play along to the Genesis version.... DISASTER. What would have been a problem for some drummers, the fast bass drum parts for example, were no problem for me... but everything else.... WHOA !!! I realised that I was trying to play things that I'd played 30 years ago. This was not going to happen.

I arrived at the sound check and we played through the tune... I sounded like a complete amateur !!! Likewise the second , third and fourth try. I had to play Martin's kit. This was something I had not taken into account. Not only was I trying to play like the "me" of 30 years ago, but on someone else's drum kit. He had "my kit" alright, but everything 6 inches closer to him than I had.... even when I changed things, it was like wearing someone else's shoes. The Band and their crew could not have been more helpful and supportive... it was ME that was the problem. Eventually we all agreed that it was "OK"... that made me suspicious... they should have been saying "wow... that sounds great..." Inside I knew I'd bitten off more than I could chew.

When it came to the gig... I watched and listened. They played that stuff better than we ever did... we wrote it, which is a big point of course. Recreating something that exists is easier than the creation of it... but they DID play it better than us. Especially Martin, who caught ALL of my personal nuances, vocally and drumming wise. All the Timbale fills... so much that I'd forgotten but he'd remembered.
It reminded me that I WAS GOOD !!! Well it came to my "moment" and having changed into my lucky Converse and into a shirt made for me by them, I took the stage to warm applause. Then the reality... I dropped 2 sticks in crucial places... generally missed everything I went for.. and emerged sweating and pissed off that I hadn't lived up to the occasion. Well... you asked me what happened.....

My wife, who hadn't lived through the Lamb experience, thought the songs challenging and interesting. She thought I played great... but I knew.... I realised that I didn't look like that soldier anymore, I wasn't that soldier anymore... it was an interesting experience. The Musical Box were fantastic... they are all fabulous musicians that have a love for what they are doing. They do it wonderfully. The problem was with me.

There are several that contain obvious and rather sudden mood and dynamic changes, which would fit perfectly into a 70s Genesis album.

Wow, I hope that story's true, as its fucking brilliant.

I'm sorry, I'm wrong, that was produced by Lillywhite wasn't it? Launay was an "assistant engineer".

Yep, he was the drum sound dude.

wow - Virgin Prunes, Birthday Party, INXS, Peter Gabriel? Music quiz gold!

(scroll down to "production credits")

Hahaha that John Lydon story is funny.

Anyway, this album.

Any way?

I'll take the solo debut over this any day

thats crazy

Don't think I've ever heard the first one in full now that John mentions it. Should look into that.

Such an incredible posse of musicians were necessary for this album to happen. I listened to it for like 10 years before I realized it was Phil Collins drumming on "Intruder".

3 >>>>> 1 but 1 has some stone classix on it--solsbury hill, here comes the flood, moribund the burgermeister

I prefer the German version. This album sounds kind of German anyway, with those spartan electronics and martial rhythms. And "Not one of us" is much more menacing as "Du bist nicht wie wiehre" (sp?).

In all of his music you get this fairly obvious image of a good/evil internal struggle...3 though I think stands out though as his only all-evil album.

J0hn is clearly insane for preferring the debut.

Has there been much discussion of the second, Fripp-produced disc anywhere?

The first one, for all its prog-ness, has some quiet, weird Randy Newman-inspired stuff ("Excuse Me," "Waiting For the Big One"). The version of "Humdrum" on the Plays Live record is incredible.

Ned craftily withheld his opinion.

I had forgotten how much I misremembered some of the songs. "And Through the Wire" sounded nothing like I had it in my head.

"...Wire" has that great fade-out that served as the basis for a beautiful instrumental track on the Birdy soundtrack.

whoops – I meant "Not One of Us."

yeah I mean there's personal baggage involved for me with this record - amongst the people I hung out with in high school, the most insufferable rockist stuff was trotted out about this Important Piece of Work etc with regard to that third album. So it tastes like a fucking U2 album to me, all big & grand & VISIONARY blah blah. (Also, I hate Kate Bush with a passion, so "Games Without Frontiers" annoys me.) But the first one is just so nice, you know - small songs, good riffs, saves much of its patented Gabriel pretension for "Here Comes the Flood" (whose partner version on Fripp's Exposure is about 10,000x better)

tl;dr I like "Solsbury Hill" better than anything on III

according to iTunes Atlantic rejected III which is how it ended up on Mercury! never heard that before

small songs, good riffs, saves much of its patented Gabriel pretension for "Here Comes the Flood" (whose partner version on Fripp's Exposure is about 10,000x better)

tl;dr I like "Solsbury Hill" better than anything on III

Both points very OTM - "Here Comes the Flood" on Exposure is unfuckingreal.

Let's not forget "Down the Dolce Vita," though - that is not a "small song", by any stretch. What a schizo debut album - Genesis fans must have been mightily confused.

well that is reassuring john because I went back to the first album last month and I was also thinking it was hands down his best album. every song! much more of a personal statement, better lyrics, and when this album gets strange, it's much stranger than the epic & poised 3rd

the Exposure version of 'Flood' is the best but I'm also glad he did a bombastic version, and that 30 second ambient piece of his flute playing at the beginning of that song sticks out more and more, I hope there's a longer version of that on some reel somewhere

Peter Gabriel - Here Comes The Flood (KB Xmas special 1979)

I admire the mini-industry around "Here Comes the Flood." A friend in Texas told me last week that he'd recorded his own version at his home studio.

first album also has the awesome 'modern love', featuring a huge riff and some classic awkward vagina metaphors

'give me is a spin in your washing machine'
'the pearls in her oyster were tacky as hell'
etc

dude truly is the burgermeister

solsbury hill is basically my favorite song ever besides maybe juicy

the legend i always heard abt it is that he wrote it after seeing springsteen live and realizing he needed to quit genesis

I, too, have cooled on Gabriel in recent years. But even when I was really into him, there was something about III that left me a little cold. I actually don't know the debut very well, but found III to not quite live up to its rep. "Family Snapshot" always struck me as kind of dopey -- the beginning of his therapy songs, blech (Kennedy Assassination songs begin and end with The Human League's "Seconds").

The hits are the tits, tho -- "No Self Control" "I Don't Remember," the pinnacle of that spiky, Frippicized sound, and "Games Without Frontiers" which is cheeky, fun and catchy. But I've never been sold on this as some kind of masterpiece.

Sax intro to "I Don't Remember" = mega dud

"Family Snapshot" always struck me as kind of dopey -- the beginning of his therapy songs, blech

Yeah, "Ooh, see, he's an assassin cuz he was a lonely boy."

The power chords before the climax are kinda dud too.

The "Exposure" vesion of "Here Comes the Flood" makes me wish there had been, at some point, a producer with enough power & juice to be able to override Gabriel's decisions. I feel like if a producer with enough vision could just use Gabriel's voice and natural talent as he saw fit, then I'd get the Peter Gabriel album I want. But that'd never happen because Gabriel is basically a deacon of auteurism.

do you think he approximated it at all on So, John?

pretty close, but there's a pontificating note to the proceedings that really turns me off

Also, I hate Kate Bush with a passion

-25 gay cred

i'd like to hear gabriel work with someone less into technology these days..the songs on Up that I liked the most were definiately the ones that stepped back (the drop and my head sounds like that), and the onl good song on Ovo is "father, son" which is basically solo piano. Gabriel produced by Robert Wyatt would be a fucking trip. I think they could make an interesting, dark sounding little album.

In high school So epitomized cool -- it was chilly and approachable, and a little weird around the edges. Loving it triggered a Peter Gabriel obsession that's cooled considerably, like Matthew's, over the years. Still, despite the many triumphs in the earlier modes, I still think that So strikes the ideal balance between commercial aspirations and something more subversive in the Manny Farber vein. Daniel Lanois got a Gabriel we haven't seen since, even on Us.

the legend i always heard abt it is that he wrote it after seeing springsteen live and realizing he needed to quit genesis

I've heard that story also. I seem to recall that Gabriel hired on a couple of E Streeters (I think Roy Bittan and Danny Federici?) for his second album (which is still my fave)

2nd album is better than the 1st!

I prefer the 1st to the 2nd, but the 3rd to both. And everything from "So" onwards is better than anything but the 3rd too.

(Not including "Passion", which is kind of interesting, but too long and lacking proper songs)

passion is his last great work; Up was generally kind of a middling disappointment, Ovo was awful. Don't know about the new Big Blue Ball thing but signs are not promising

When I was 18 or 19 this would have been in my all-time top 10, but I listened to it like a year ago and much of it didn't work so well. "Family Snapshot" is good example of a song that is hugely important when you're a kid and just starting to think about things, and much less so later; it's kind of like Pink Floyd's The Wall in that respect. Like, at 14 of 15, in my sheltered world, the idea of sympathizing with an assassin and trying to understand what made him tick seemed very radical-- I'm not sure I'd even considered such a thing. But now it sounds kinda painful, in terms of its simplistic psychology. "Biko" and 4 or 5 others still rule though, and the production is cool. Alfred's experience w/ So in high school was mine almost exactly.

I like "Digging in the Dirt" a lot, jumping forward a decade. Definitely a "therapy song" but something about that dialog in the car really rings true. Although the narrator is asking for a hell of a lot there.

"DON'T TALK BACK! Just drive the car..." - got to be his most underrated/overlooked single, it's got a genuinely freaky ambience that cuts a lot harder than almost anything in his catalog except "Intruder."

I once heard what I suspect was a Red Hot Chili Peppers cover of "Intruder" at my favorite pizzeria. I think RHCP only because it was about 3/4 of everything that was ever on the radio there - I could be wrong. As to whether it was any good - I don't remember. In fact, I can't recall.

I bet it was the Primus cover, dude.

The "Exposure" vesion of "Here Comes the Flood" makes me wish there had been, at some point, a producer with enough power & juice to be able to override Gabriel's decisions.

There's a German version of "Flood" called "Jetzt Kommt Die Flut" on the "Biko" 12-inch single. It's even quieter than the Exposure version, just piano and vague synth tones.

Don't think I've ever heard the first one in full now

You mean...... Ned *hasn't* heard *EVERYTHING*, EVER ?!!!??!

/shocked

Also, I hate Kate Bush with a passion

Why?

You mean...... Ned *hasn't* heard *EVERYTHING*, EVER ?!!!??!

He meant that he hasn't heard the first one in full THIS WEEK. Ned listens to everything, ever, every week. He still has until Saturday night to finish listening to Peter Gabriel's debut, so cut him some slack.

hahahahahahahahahasdfhfjk;gsdhg;