Pitchfork vs. Push Kings

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This review, like pretty much all "worst record ever" reviews, makes the album sound pretty good, actually.

Nitsuh, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Want to show how bad a record is? Say a teenage girl might like it!

Unfortunately a quick bit of research on the Push Kings gives you the distinct impression that they do dodgy power-pop.

Tom, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Their tattoo's a bit useless.

Jeff W, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

She forgot to mention what bothered her about the record. If she doesn't like "glossy, insipid, vacuous cheese-puff pop music", then she should listen to (and review) something else.

dan, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This is kind of the problem about commissioning reviews instead of encouraging them, I think.

Tom, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But then I dont approve of reviews really so what do I know.

Tom, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Actually, Tom, I have enjoyed the occasional Push Kings single in the past, which may well have a lot to do with having never heard anything more than the occasional single. They have evidently gone from the shamble to the gloss though.

Why I think this review may be badly-written: Fountains of Wayne's Utopia Parkway did the exact same thing (i.e., glossy candy power-pop paired with sap-ass WB-teen-show type ballads and even a string-soaked weeper called "Prom Theme!") and it was great, because they were doing it very knowingly (although not!! ironically), and very well, and making no bones about any of it. Pitchfork didn't like that either, although it got a 5.1. I feel that in both cases, Pitchfork is (a) misreading these records, and (b) making the mistake of confusing genre for quality (i.e., "this is glossy softy sappy teeny, and glossy softy sappy teeny is always bad no matter how it's done.")

Nitsuh, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wow, that's a really annoying review. The extended 'Ashley' metaphor (who finds Creed a little "hardcore"!) is a waste of time and text... this kind of 'cleverness' leaves me cold. I think I'll go pick up the record.

Andy, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The Push Kings are definitely a strange band. They made a couple nice records while they were a Boston band (S/T & Far Places). Good Beatlesque AM radio-ish power pop stuff. Then they decided to move to the west coast. They were a fine live band, and seemed like nice guys even (I talked to a couple band members at a show in Philly once). But someone must have got in their ear that they were gonna big stars if they moved to cali and slickened up their sound (a bunch). IT's not as if they forgot how to write catchy tunes; their are a bunch of great hooks on Feel No Fade, it's just that the production is so over the top crassly commercial. And some of the lyrics are pretty asinine. Plus they had this website with all this "we're gonna be huge rock stars" rhetoric (it seems to be gone now). If it was a joke it might have been funny, but it didn't come accross that way. The review of the album on allmusic is pretty much right on. Anyway, I guess they didn't become teen idols yet since their album came out on Le Grand Magistery. Hey, they're label-mates of Momus! Probably not what they were shooting for...

g, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This seems a trend around Pitchfork recently. If the reviewer doesn't like the record, instead of explaining why they don't like it, they decide that it will be funny to imagine the person they believe might like the record and spend two or three paragraphs speaking condescendingly of that imaginary person (see the reviews of the last Jimmy Eat World and Tool records for additional examples, only the Tool review manages to be even mildly entertaining).

Pitchfork constantly makes the mistake of confusing genre for quality, especially when it comes to emo and indiepop. Although other people (people who actually like indiepop) have told me that the Push Kings record is horrible, the PF review does nothing to tell me why. Even when PF seems to like a record within one of these untouchable genres, the best they can do is say "it would be a good record if it wasn't an indiepop/emo/chartpop/whateverelse record."

I think the reason this happens is because the reviewer is completely ignorant of the genre and for that reason can't distinguish between good or bad, which makes me wonder why they even attempted to write the review to begin with. This is the reason that PF is crap.

Miranda, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Rating: 0.1
How do you calculate this? Nonetheless *shrug* for every style, there's a reader. I am sure some people enjoy reading this instead of say ILM. ;-)

helenfordsdale, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Brent D. usually could keep me entertained while he trashed a record, but generally I think it's very difficult to write about music you dislike.

Mark, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Are you kidding? Nothing's easier than venting spleen.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

he did say entertainingly ned.

jess, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, it's hard for me to do in a way I'm satisfied with. It's easy to "coast" and kick out some bile, but harder to make something interesting to read (this could just be w/ me, though.)

Mark, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

you owe me a coke, richardson.

jess, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the occasional (emphasis on occasional) review that disses a genre rather discussing the quality of record is sometimes ok. That sort of review may not be very useful as, well, a review, but if done properly can be thought-provoking-- approaching a record from the outside, rather then inside, can help us think about the assumptions made by the artists and fans of a particular genre (and the writer, really)... which I think is just as interesting, if not more interesting, than a straightforward review.

That said, I stand in full agreement with everyone that the Push Kings review sucked. It seems the writer had a really horrible knee- jerk reaction to the music that she never got past... I think it's cool if she wants to use the review as a platform to, um, expose "vacuous pop music" or whatever for the shit she thinks it is, but I would like to see something in the form of "'Vacuous pop' musicians presume X. X is bullshit. Here's why." Unfortunately, she never gets past her own prejudices, or makes any attempt to examine them.

Incidentally, I think the word "elitism" is ridiculously overused in the worlds of music criticism and fandom. But the Push Kings review, is, I think, a case of it. Basically: "A fictional, rich 13 year old girl likes this music. Creed is too hardcore for her. She is a dumbass and thus you and I are better than her and you should not like the Push Kings." What? I'm all for taking yuppies and frat boys whose tastes in music are extensions of their opinions that they're better than you out to the street and beating them, but picking apart the tastes of a 13 year old girl, even a fictional one? That's just obnoxious.

charlie va, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the whole number system is flawed, one must assume that the arbitrary points are relative to the writer's particular tastes. if we follow this formula, atrocities like brent d's 'kid a' review become somewhat credible. never mind that ms. fields is in fact, confusing genre for style. it's all relative to how she is approaching this particular cd.

tyler, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You know, I posed the question not so much to pick on the reviewer, but rather because the whole fantasy-fan set-up she'd created actually sort of made the record sound good to me. Did anyone else sort of feel this way? As if this "Ashley" character could just as easily be used to explain why "Romeo" is so great?

The criticism of "Ashley" seems to be that she's tired of teen-pop and is now thirsting for "rock" credibility but is too young and vapid to actually "get" any of it. (See, for instance, the presumption that she'll move on to Jimmy Eat World and thence, we can imagine, to Pitchfork-approved releases.) This sets up this horrid false reality in which one has to listen to crap for 20 years before suddenly being able to "understand" the "good music" that Pitchfork likes. Whereas I think -- (and this is not to say that the Push Kings album is any good, cause I have no idea) -- that there is something to be said for records that can provide good, careful, quality bridges from uninformed pop listening to eclectic experimentalism or wherever else. But this is just the genre-as- quality thing, which I think reached a peak of badness in the mid-90s and is slowly coming back around to a reasonable level.

Nitsuh, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Brent D. usually could keep me entertained while he trashed a record...

Agreed. I thought the Brent D. Tool review was way off the mark, but at least it was entertaining to read. The Push Kings review, on the other hand, does little more than reinforce the elitist attitude that Pitchfork is universally hated for. It's too bad, because this is the type of stuff that works to obscure all of the good writing that appears on Pitchfork.

As a side note, I remember being told that Ryan Schreiber removed a Tool review from the Pitchfork archives because it was favorably reviewed and that he also changed the rating on a Radiohead album to a 10.0 long after it appeared. Can anybody verify if this happened or not, and if not, can they do their best to spread the rumor?

Miranda, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the push kings are the most hated band in indiepop, because they have always thought they were stars and the scenesters can't stomach that. i rather liked the first two records, the second one even comes off as soulful, almost stevie wonderish on the songs carrick sings but the new one is horrible. the idea of muscling up wimpy pop songs is a bit odd, and the silly drug cliches don't really sound too believable either after you have spent a few records singing about babysitters and raincoats. they're handsome guys though, it seems that they could have been strokes-ized with the right record company.

keith, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i have actually read the review now and it does fall in line with pitchfork normally hating anything with a melody. granted the push kings record is dreadful but it seems only bands with the on the indie-rawkish side of pop pass their muster so they praise nonsense like beulah, microphones, summer hymns and new pornagraphers until the end of time but consistently cash anything more consistently melodic and simple. i guess it doesn't meet their bar for sophistication. to think this girl had this amount of revulsion over the push kings seems a bit feigned though.

keith, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm sorry, but Beulah and Summer Hymns are not very good examples, are they? On the great indie continent, the Elephant-6-type nation and the twee-indie-pop-type nation share a long unguarded border.

Nitsuh, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Here's a Tool review that's no longer on Pitchfork. 7.9

Can't find any changed Radiohead numbers, but here's where Ryan Shriebs boasted aboot calling Cat Power "the Australian Mark Eitzel" (she of course being American).

Vic Funk, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And yet if I recall the Pitchfork review, Lateralus was considered crap because 16 year olds boys liked it. (Personally, I like both.)

bnw, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

also check the powerpuff girls comp review for ryan not getting the obvious beach boys reference. christ, even i had heard heroes and villains before when that thing came out.

ethan, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Pop sucks. Indie-pop sucks. Melody sucks too. 13-year-old girls aren't anything special. Why shouldn't they be condescended to, they're usually pretty ignorant. People should review stuff they don't like otherwise it's a circle jerk.

dave q, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one year passes...
"melody sucks"? uh, yeah. The reviewer, "Alison," didn't even get the name of the song Rocket n' Ride right (Rocket n' Time?). She must not have given it much of a listen. I read another review that said The Push Kings debut was the greatest record EVER made. Subjectivity. I like The Push Kings. I'm glad I don't rely solely on Pitchfork.

davivid, Friday, 7 February 2003 07:54 (twenty-three years ago)


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