guns and grime

Population proportion is the better way to do this (the US would still be a much higher rate, of course).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/feb/03/pow-forward-lethal-bizzle-protests

"It's not about the (lyrical) content, it's about the energy and aura," he says. "The persona I portray gives a voice to those who use it as a way of expression."

ha, ha, ha

fucking hell, can't believe people are still pushing this

"I've got more power than he has, when it comes to those kids: they're singing my song in his front garden."

yeah. your songs are having more impact than all the cuts to their education, financial support and benefits will. ok.

pow 2011 is good anyway. apart from chipmunk and kano. always thought the original should have been better mixed/engineered though.

Bizzle looks like Mick Collins in that photo

Nice piece but any claims you want to make about the political significance of Pow! are hindered rather than helped by actually talking to Lethal Bizzle.

that's why it's not a nice piece. it's another posh kid getting excited about the 'energy' of the streets afaict.

He's not a posh kid fwiw but if that makes you feel better.

Anyway I think the piece suffers for focussing on the song (and Lethal himself) at the expense of the context, especially EMA cuts. This piece is much better argued.

ok "oxbridge graduate" then; either way, i guess im saying celebrating mindless aggression is a weak look

I take it we can look forward to you repeating this argument at length all over the Rolling Gun Sounds thread then?

no, because the ilx rap guys aren't claiming that the music is, idk, "socially responsible" or s.thing.

i've just started working with irl young people. jury still way the hell out.

Except no such claim is being made - it's less "socially responsible" and more "vehicle for anger". The problem is that a lot of the anger is essentially non-directional or all over the place and it leads to lyrics like Pow. But then we're into the whole "how much are you prepared to forgive for a hot beat?" discussion for the millionth time.

that argument is for the outsiders, really, isn't it? what im talking about is the treatment of said anger --

grime MCs whose lyrical vernacular thrives on highly witty bellicosity (a sample JME lyric: 'I will dislocate your nose / Furthermore, I'll sprain your lip / plain and simp / Box you up like you were David Blaine and shit')

ha, ha, very witty. i guess there are east london kids who don't really dig this kind of aggression, maybe they have a perspective too? you don't have to think that grime 'causes' violence to think that it's not exactly 'just an act', and anyway, can we not evaluate the act? there's a real confusion of criteria, aesthetic and quasi-sociological

im sure that govt-sponsored anti-violence grime is wack, but i don't f/w the real stuff either

also, this argument is never actually concluded:

The popular myth constructed around this generation takes the form of an unholy trinity: first, impressionable, pitiable urban youth; second, aggressive urban music, which might be called grime, rap, dubstep, garage... at the level the myth is constructed, the terminology doesn't matter one jot; third, violence, bloodshed and moral degeneracy.

which parts are in dispute, or is it just the linkages that are faulty? i think on some level the writer pities the urban youth, which is fair enough. unless im misunderstanding something, he's saying it's hard out there. are they impressionable? like most kids, yes, they are. the music exists and its aggressive and he himself is saying it's the true voice of the streets, not like dubstep or whatever. and then the third point. well, the violence is there, isn't it? im not sure if he's saying there's a problem or no problem.

Actually in JME's case I'm certain it's an act. Much more famous JME lyric:

Everybody thinks to MC tough,
Your lyrics must be about negative stuff,
Go ravin, No-one's skankin'
Turn around I bet you some-one's shankin'

Jus 'cause we come from the gutter
We know about scrapin the bottom of the butter,
Don't mean we have to be sinners
Major labels don't want killers
Think,
Who's gonna sign a guy with a shank
Or a guy with a nine-mml
All you're gonna get is a 3-figure deal
You MC or rave and get a bill,
But that bill ain't gonna last,
It will go fast
And it might be the last shots for a while
So you won't have no dough for a while
Serious

and then the third point. well, the violence is there, isn't it? im not sure if he's saying there's a problem or no problem.

But the point is that while the violence is there it's not the defining characteristic of (often black, almost entirely working class) urban youth, which is the caricature that the right-wing press and authoritarian governments (including/especially New Labour) have been selling us for years.

So yeah, it's partly the linkages that are faulty, and partly the bits that are left out of the picture.

Or the other way to look at it is the core points are a) collapse in mutual trust between middle classes and working class youth, and between factions of the latter b) rising inequality, joblessness and atrophying social mobility for those at the bottom and c) cutting educational funding for those right at the bottom. 'Pow' represents the world you get when you follow those to their conclusion.

i don't think violence defines them, though i have no idea, obviously, what life is like on inner city estates for poor kids. people from outside fear them, i guess they do define them in terms of violence and drugs and aggro, and that isn't entirely because the tabloid media stokes up fear. above all, they don't want to know, they just want it away from them. i couldn't generalize about grime. it's possible that it shows another side of life there, that it isn't just about aggression.

Or the other way to look at it is the core points are a) collapse in mutual trust between middle classes and working class youth, and between factions of the latter b) rising inequality, joblessness and atrophying social mobility for those at the bottom and c) cutting educational funding for those right at the bottom. 'Pow' represents the world you get when you follow those to their conclusion.

― Matt DC, Friday, February 4, 2011 12:56 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark

yeah, this i agree with, pretty much completely. i don't like 'pow'.

piece would have been better if it wasnt another (and slightly old-hat now) piece on all the stuff thats already been posted upthread but just about how bizzle has done a sequel (which is good) to one of the biggest grime songs ever released. trying to shoehorn all that other stuff into some sort of grand old school socialist-type narrative seems a bit silly.