Human After All is our generation's Metal Machine Music.

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I've just come to this conclusion.

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)

And, thusly, following in the footsteps of my mentor, the late great Lester Bangs, I will write a 10 page essay on why Human After All is the greatest album ever.

I'm glad SOMEONE (read: whoever wrote that stylus review) got it.

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:08 (twenty years ago)

How could you not LOVE Human After All? Link to Stylus review?

I don't see the comparison though!

― green uno skip card (ex machina), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:12 (twenty years ago)

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/review.php?ID=2822

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:15 (twenty years ago)

I forgot how much better than Pitchfork Stylus is!

― green uno skip card (ex machina), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:18 (twenty years ago)

I forgot how much better than Pitchfork Stylus is!

We haven't even reviewed it yet! Watch out this week, the 'Fork might blow your mind.

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:23 (twenty years ago)

i like the article but i don't see how the claims couldn't be applied to all sorts of other, earlier, tracks. unless part of the MMM formulation is the controversy.

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:24 (twenty years ago)

Do pitchforkers just lurk here waiting for someone to slag on them?

― green uno skip card (ex machina), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:33 (twenty years ago)

Do pitchforkers just lurk here waiting for someone to slag on them?

They hang around here when they're not busy not talking about music they're supposed to review.

― Xii (Xii), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:53 (twenty years ago)

like the emperor machine. what happened

― fe zaffe (fezaffe), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 04:11 (twenty years ago)

aimee tallulah is hypnotized would be the pansoul of our generation if pansoul wasnt the pansoul of our generation

― fe zaffe (fezaffe), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 04:11 (twenty years ago)

pansoul is the chronic of our g-funk era

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 04:17 (twenty years ago)

I'm not so sure how i feel about a review that assumes so much of the intentions of the artists. It is a very well written review and i would give the album a similar score.

― deej., Tuesday, 15 March 2005 04:26 (twenty years ago)

but isnt it a c- review, without the assumptions

― fe zaffe (fezaffe), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 04:29 (twenty years ago)

Do pitchforkers just lurk here waiting for someone to slag on them?

I actually have an RSS feed.

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 04:41 (twenty years ago)

I liked the review, but as far as the lack of emotion in the last track, the repetition ends up getting to me and it seems that a bit more of a realistic emotion is evoked in the listener coming from a robot/machine/whatever than say pretending to be a robot/machine could. With this album they have actually become machines where Discovery was pretending. Yes it also may very well be a piss take.I can not seem to articulate this. I like it.

― jmeister, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 05:12 (twenty years ago)

I bet Pitchfork shits on it, given the hint in the Doppleben review. I remember reading about Blueberry Boat-love a month before it was reviewed inside a Streets review and it got a 9.5 or so.

― jmeister, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 05:15 (twenty years ago)

http://www.iamvork.com/pics/wanking.gif

― W i l l (common_person), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 05:29 (twenty years ago)

I don't know if that is addressing the thread or the duo but how about the hypnotic effect of the repetition in the songs being likened to fractals in Jacson Pollock paintings? Simply mesmerizing on a gut level. Wank Wank.

― jmeister, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 05:34 (twenty years ago)

Honestly, that Stylus review is the "Human After All" of record reviews--it is dumb and pretentious, thereby exposing the dumb pretentiousness of Stylus reviewers across the land. The argument is that, yes, the record is shit, but it's about how in the 21st century records are shit, therefore -1 x -1 = +1, A-!!!

If the record is bad, it's bad. Even if their theory is correct about what Daft Punk intended, it doesn't change the fact that the way to reveal bad records as such is to make good records. I was hoping Daft Punk would return and kick the ass of all the dance music I hate, but instead they made an hommage to all the dance music I hate. And I'm supposed to like that?

― mrjosh (mrjosh), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

OK well the clear difference for me is that I don't believe they're making an homage to any dance music, at least implicitely. I think they wanted to make a modern dance record and thats what they did, and some people (many people) are underwhelmed. Ah well...i still like it, and think it has some very enjoyable moments.

― deej., Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

its a turd

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

though I'll go along with the titular hypothesis as long this means that Discovery our generation's Sally Can't Dance.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

More our generation's "Waking Up With The House On Fire". (Both were aptly titled as well)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

for me it's our generation's 'beauty stab'.

― piscesboy, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

haha josh

― sleep (sleep), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:31 (twenty years ago)

I see where the Stylus review is pointing, but the truth is that (a) I don’t think it’s really a “piss-take,” not exactly, plus (b) that doesn’t quite make it a “good” record in the worth-your-money way. What keeps me listening to parts of it isn’t a sense that they’re mocking anything, but that they’re kinds of testing the limits of absurdity; what works about “Robot Rock” is that it’s absolutely ridiculous, in a way that’s huge and hilariously single-minded and rather amazing. It doesn’t rank in the worth-money stakes because there’s no real purpose to it, apart from being the perfect song for a cyborg pro wrestler to enter the ring to. But as a thing in itself it’s lovely to look at, and that kind of static amazement does seep over into a lot of the other tracks. So I don’t think it’s a big lazy dud in the conventional sense, no; but neither would I go around telling people it’s great and they need to hear it. Unless they are cyborg pro wrestlers, obviously.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:39 (twenty years ago)

for me it's our generation's 'beauty stab'.

No, it isn't. It is largely disappointing, but it is nowhere like the piece of rat vomit that was "Beauty Stab"...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

that doesn’t quite make it a “good” record in the worth-your-money way

Surely the Stylus guy is taking the piss? He's describing a shitty record.

― JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 22:10 (twenty years ago)

seriously why the fuck is Miccio who openly hated Discovery even bothering to comment on HAA anyway.

as if anyone's going to pay attention!

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 22:17 (twenty years ago)

What, you’re saying Daft Punk are “taking the piss” with their bad record and then he’s “taking the piss” by saying it’s actually a good record of them “taking the piss?” There is way too much piss being taken in that one, too much piss for me to, umm, swallow.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

Maybe Beck was taking the piss with Guero as well!

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 22:28 (twenty years ago)

seriously why the fuck is Miccio who openly hated Discovery even bothering to comment on HAA anyway.
as if anyone's going to pay attention!

you just contradicted yourself there

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 22:38 (twenty years ago)

This thread has degenerated into golden shower territory.

― deej., Tuesday, 15 March 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

you’re saying Daft Punk are “taking the piss” with their bad record and then he’s “taking the piss” by saying it’s actually a good record of them “taking the piss?”

That's what I'm saying. Now that's genius! ;-)

― JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 23:05 (twenty years ago)

There's something oddly satisfying about being called dumb and pretentious by a Harvard student.

I think Nitsuh's on to something with his assessment of "Robot Rock". But to clarify: the A- wasn't intended as a Consumer Guide-type plea for kids to spend their paper route money on it so much as a "you should hear this because even if you viscerally detest the thing, odds are, it'll make you think."

And if it doesn't, well, keep enjoying the shit out of that Franz Ferdinand record.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:23 (twenty years ago)

http://img15.exs.cx/img15/4529/pmatch11068804235cc.gif

― Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:25 (twenty years ago)

And if it doesn't, well, keep enjoying the shit out of that Franz Ferdinand record.

-- Naive Teen Idol (matthewweiner@earthlink.net ), March 16th, 2005.

yeah, THATS gonna win people over

― chris andrews (fraew), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:28 (twenty years ago)

To what?

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:31 (twenty years ago)

so is part of the thread formulation the way "human after all" is exposing the divide between music writers who write consumer review and music writers who write [something else]?

or is that not what metal machine music did at all. or do all music reviews expose that divide. etc etc

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:32 (twenty years ago)

Well, one difference? MMM is a piece of shit.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:33 (twenty years ago)

http://www.toutfait.com/issues/issue_3/News/Danto/images/06_small.jpg

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:35 (twenty years ago)

Consumer Guide-type plea

dude, Xgau gave Encore pick hit status! He loves this kind of conceptual every now and then.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:36 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but a big part of Xgau's schtick is that people spend money on music -- s'kind of different in the days of P2P.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:39 (twenty years ago)

for a certain breed of cat

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:43 (twenty years ago)

i mean albums still go platinum, you know

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:43 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but grades can mean something different.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:44 (twenty years ago)

*shrugs* I hate ratings.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:46 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, well, I mean their implications anyway -- like, I find this record really rewarding. Whether or not I buy isn't really on my mind.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:48 (twenty years ago)

Or at least isn't my top criteria.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:53 (twenty years ago)

well with p2p and a kajillion albums available, time spent listening to this album is a kind of cost all the same. p2p doesn't abolish the need for consumer guides at all. you still are pointing out what's worth consuming.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:54 (twenty years ago)

the weird thing about the stylus review is that it supposes some intentions on the part of daft punk without even examining those intentions.

bangalter just suffered an almost-career-ending bout of hearing loss. why wouldn't he want to make an album about the pure joy of effervescent sound? that would fit with his roule work. has he decided music can't convey emotion? the "irreversible" soundtrack would seem to say no.

i can't really comment on homem-de-christo because he keeps a lower profile but his crydamoure mixes got very very good press considering how "difficult" they are so i don't know why he'd go sour all of a sudden, too.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:54 (twenty years ago)

also let's not forget daft punk are big franz ferdinand fans

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 01:59 (twenty years ago)

Well, it's more motives you're talking about and the short answer is I can't speak to that because I'm not him.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 02:00 (twenty years ago)

THAT's a copout - isn't that what reviewers do?

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 02:06 (twenty years ago)

The good ones, yes.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 02:08 (twenty years ago)

But seriously, and I say this in the review, I think their body of work indicates that they both A) are students of pop music and B) have a dark streak.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 02:13 (twenty years ago)

You wrote the stylus review? I salute you!

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 02:28 (twenty years ago)

Aye-aye. And thanks -- btw, I like the premise of this thread and agree with it insofar as the way the records are perceived. But where HAA appears very well thought out, MMM is, as our Harvard friend would say, dumb and pretentious. Contrary to what he told Mr. Bangs.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 02:30 (twenty years ago)

http://big.oscar.aol.com/BartSNQuery?screenname=wizardishungry&type=1

― Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 02:34 (twenty years ago)

Ha, ha, ha...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 02:42 (twenty years ago)

the weird thing about the stylus review is that it supposes some intentions on the part of daft punk without even examining those intentions.

This is my beef with your review--you basically say that if a mediocre record is mediocre on purpose, it's a success. I question that premise, because even if DP did intend what you say they did, what they intended is boring and tedious. It's like Duchamp's urinal; pretty smart the first time, pretty boring the second, intolerable the nth.

― mrjosh (mrjosh), Thursday, 17 March 2005 01:53 (twenty years ago)

But where HAA appears very well thought out, MMM is, as our Harvard friend would say, dumb and pretentious. Contrary to what he told Mr. Bangs.

Also... wtf does this mean??

― mrjosh (mrjosh), Thursday, 17 March 2005 02:00 (twenty years ago)

dr. eldon that is hilarious

― mrjosh (mrjosh), Thursday, 17 March 2005 02:01 (twenty years ago)

That urinal is rilly pretty! wtf?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 17 March 2005 02:02 (twenty years ago)

why are people surprised that an over-rated band that isn't very good released an album that isn't very good

― plum posse, Thursday, 17 March 2005 02:02 (twenty years ago)

http://www.studiolo.org/Mona/images/DuchampFountain.jpg

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 17 March 2005 02:03 (twenty years ago)

Why would it get boring?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 17 March 2005 02:03 (twenty years ago)

TMI, STERLING!!!

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 17 March 2005 02:06 (twenty years ago)

"This is not a post."

-- R. Mutt

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 17 March 2005 02:10 (twenty years ago)

the weird thing about the stylus review is that it supposes some intentions on the part of daft punk without even examining those intentions.
This is my beef with your review--you basically say that if a mediocre record is mediocre on purpose, it's a success. I question that premise, because even if DP did intend what you say they did, what they intended is boring and tedious. It's like Duchamp's urinal; pretty smart the first time, pretty boring the second, intolerable the nth.

Well, listen: I'm not saying that something that's intentionally mediocre somehow negates its underlying mediocrity. If all DP wanted to do was make a boring record, the results wouldn't be as provocative as they are. I tried in my review to point out that they've made a record that's so relentlessly static--melodically and harmonically, but also creatively--that it kind of transcends its components. And not only do I find the results interesting, it's also one of the things that makes really great pop records really great. I also think it's absolutely what they intended.

But where HAA appears very well thought out, MMM is, as our Harvard friend would say, dumb and pretentious. Contrary to what he told Mr. Bangs.
Also... wtf does this mean??

Sorry, I meant what Lou Reed told Bangs--I think it was reprinted in Carberator Dung--which is that MMM was painstakingly planned out, harmonically and so forth. Even if he was cogent enough to do that, which I highly doubt given it was '73, the results pretty clearly indicate he was at the bare minimum overstating things.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 17 March 2005 02:37 (twenty years ago)

I like Andy B's review in the Onion.

― deej., Thursday, 17 March 2005 04:01 (twenty years ago)

MMM is pretty too!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 17 March 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

MMM is the greatest piece of shit!

just wish RCA (or whoever) re-release the vinyl, the word needs to hear and enjoy that locked grrove.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 17 March 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

'word' = 'world', i mean.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 17 March 2005 14:21 (twenty years ago)

Just because a record is well "thought out" or "thought-provoking" doesn't mean that it is of high "quality"...usually, often accompanied by heavy cocaine use, the most "thought out" albums are of the least value to me...the actual quality of Discovery may cause one to ponder the lack of charm on HAA, but it doesn't disguise the fact that HAA blows...I hope music critics are not reaching the same crisis of aesthetic that was reached with visual art and the modernists...mroe and more, Stylus (and occasionally Pitchfork) reviews contain more discussion of the hype and background surrounding the artist and album than the actual album itself (this review is case-in-point, 70% background, 30% review of the record's substance)

― Space Is the Place (Space Is the Place), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

i'm quite glad that Jon W likes it

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

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