Hooks

Catchy refrain. If it stays in yer head.

I don't think it's too much of a pun to say that a hook is what makes a song catchy.

Pop songs have hooks; rock songs have riffs. Really great songs like "Roll With It" will have both... and my tongue is only half in my cheek when I say that.

Bass player with New Order, innit?

Anything that people try to copy vocally, especially involuntarily, even if it isn't a vocal figure.

Maybe it's the part of the song designed to make you remember it, i.e. "hook" you in.

Tom knows perfectly well what a hook is. What's he on about? Dave Q's answer is good though. Rebel Rebel d-der dow de-de-de dow / Rebel Rebel d-der dow de-de-de dow.

I can't hear hooks unless the melody or chords are in a minor key or have a minor key flourish. Whenever someone tries to tell me that an all major key song has hooks, I can't for the life of me figure out how the song is catchy or hooky.

I don’t think of slow songs having hooks. The hooks I notice are where the lyrics, usually but not necessarily in the chorus, are accented differently from what you would expect in natural speech. British Invasion songwriters really had this down.

“You got me so I can’t sleep at night. You really got me.” “But please don’t tell me bout the way she talks, the way she walks and the color of her hair” “Victoria, Victoria, Vic-tor-ia, ‘tor-I-a” “I’m not one of those who can ea-si-ly hide” “Ch-ch-ch-ch changes.” “Oh my TVC15 oh oh TVC15.” (obviously, only the first TVC15 is accented in an unexpected way, which also sets up the 2nd one) “I want to see my fa-mily my wife and child wai-ting for me.”

It usually involved a trip in the rhythm - a dotted rhythm - which I suppose comes from music hall via Gilbert & Sullivan and Mozart’s opera buffa. (I don’t know Italian well enough to tell whether the “List Aria” uses unexpected speech rhythms). It comes from hearing ska, too.

the traditional hook is, in fact, in a major key. the fact is that most of the music we've been exposed to is a take on the 1-4-5 progression. any 'exploration' we hear using these chords is so familiar it is pop.

A good hook equals a successful hook as the songwriter's intention is to entrap your mind. So, a good hook is whatever sticks in your mind after one or two listens to a song, whether you're then willingly humming along or you feel subjected to mental invasion as in 'I can't get that bloody Kylie song out of my head.' 'What song is that?' 'I can't get you out of my head.' 'Yes, you said that. But what's the song called?' And so on. The amoral nature of this entrapment gives rise to the saying 'by hook or by crook.'

The concept of the 'hook', once purely melodic, now encompasses the realm of the rhythmic (as opposed to the riff). You could even extend the hook concept to marketing ploys which 'hook' an audience into buying a song that has little melodic, rhythmic, or riffic content.

Graham C is on my wavelength, but with more words. That I didn't have him to write papers for me in college is a travesty.

all these arguments are circular

the fact that kylie's song is abt troubled addiction and FEATURES A HOOK WHICH TROUBLES THE ADDICTED is an artistic achievement such as parasitic fuXoRs like martin amis only dream of

so what is the constituent element which effects the addiction?

(btw if anyone says i. repetition, ii. marketing, i shall utterly disdain their children yay unto the fifth generation.. this is a technical even musicological question if it is anything, and all avantists who sneer at the skillz entailed are LaYMoRZ and TWeRPZ...)

so what is the constituent element which effects the addiction?

You're saying that all hooks have essentially the same active ingredient? Who's to say addiction isn't the catalyst?

no: obv not all the same element!! but interesting surely to look what what constitutes a good vs a so-so tune, an addictive vs a forgettable tune [or indeed hook generally: hook in "Wipe-Out" = the repeated phrase "Wipe-Out", rather than tune or rhythm or whatever... but wd ANY PHRASE repeated have worked, if not why not?]

addiction = catalyst = i don't follow, sorry: catalyst for what?

addiction = catalyst = i don't follow, sorry: catalyst for what?

Catalyst for getting "hooked", or thinking that a particular hook is good. You seemed to be saying that the hook itself determined whether or not the song was good/memorable. My counterpoint is that the addicion (using your term here, and what I'm really referencing is the opinion/desire of the listener who thinks the song/hook is good) might be as much or more of the reason why someone is drawn to a particular hook/song.

I think the hook comes before the desire to hear it again.

That sounded so goth, Melissa.

I think I may be secretly goth, or something.

Actually, I've had this thing with minor keys since I was quite little...

Hey it's better than secretly being a hippy!

Maybe the obvious ones really do just whap you upside the head on that first listen and demand that you rewind/replay NOW, but some are much more sneaky. I'm talking about the slowburners. I mean who hasn't thought a song was "ok but, hmm not quite up there" during the first few incidental hearings, only to be completely blindsided later on by some moment of subtle amazingness that you simply cannot *believe* that you had not picked on before. And you continue to hear it that new way from that point forth. Even to the point of being genuinely perplexed by the apparent DEAFNESS TO GENIUS that mysteriously afflicts your friends during all attempts at enlightening them.

I'm thinking, that probably, that breed of hook is a special one because it feels kind of like hearing a juicy secret.

Be an open goth, Melissa, then you can Glower Mysteriously at everyone.

Hook = the thing in the Pet Shop Boys' "One More Chance" that makes me very happy right now. Actually, there are multiple hooks.

I do already glower mysteriously. And I even have frightfully pale skin and dark hair. And I wear a lot of black. And my music of choice is melancholy and mysterious. I think I've already got this goth thing down.

EXCELLENT. Now all you need are obscure Alien Sex Fiend B-sides.

I move to suggest the word "obscure" in that last post is somewhat redundant.

Mel, surely you can hum "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" or *ahem* "Stop Whispering"?

Twinkle Twinkle Little Star: only because of repetition
Stop Whispering: Similarly

Only something with some minor key component though can haunt my dreams.

Your gothness increaseth by the minute!

Now you need appropriate lyrics. Here's something Brian once cooked up as a joke:

Liar, liar, Jesus on fire!
You crawl with me into a pit of desire!
You scar my flesh, I give you smack
We read _Propaganda_ and hit the sack!

God, you whore! Virgin Mary, you bitch!
Suffer the attentions of an unholy witch!
So [somethingsomething], prepare the broth!
Increase the flames, so we can all become GOTH!

Chorus:

And the dead will rise
And the blood will call
A million faces from the screaming wall
Will bring disease, doom, despair
AND DEATH

The name of the band Brian concocted for this was Maybelline Messiah.

But you see, I want to be one of those goths that flits around in Victorian clothing and listens to dramatic but not typically goth music. I like my music mournful, not angsty. I want to be delicate and ethereal. Hmmmmm.

Ah, then you buy 4AD and Projekt records and take photos of yourself in soft focus.

This is a question I'm obsessed with, mostly because there is seemingly a pattern to certain types of hooks that slay me without exception, and mostly because it's the thing I'm least able to articulate about music. Which is what I'm guessing Tom was on about inititally, but still...

Anyway, I'd say the best hooks are ones that work in the face of discrimination (some legitimate, some rootless and silly), the way I instinctually find myself gushing over like Goo Goo Dolls songs, or that monster Lifehouse single. There's something shared about them, but something hugely personal too.

The Hook Brings You Back. ahem.

Today, the only times I've stopped singing "Hello It's Me" are the times when I let it just play in my head.

Has ILM ever had a "Top 100 Pop Hooks" poll? It would certainly be different from a "best songs" poll, and I like the idea of "Mack the Knife" fighting it out with "God Save the Queen."