What Do You Get Out Of ILM?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

And what would you like to get out of it that you don't?

I suppose this question is more generally aimed at the people who don't fully agree with the 'ILM mindset' - not that I'm 100% convinced there is an 'ILM mindset', mind you.

― Tom, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

(I know we've done stuff like this before, also)

What I get - I used to get this exciting feeling of being around a lot of people I broadly agreed with and who were often suggesting fresh things about my favourite records. Now I find reading ILM more taxing - more disagreeable, in a literal (and good) way. It's very intelligent and a good place to bat arguments around and also to clash swords. The upside is I read some interesting thinkers. The downside is that I have my mind changed less than it used to be about specific records. A constant has been the very high standard of writing on the site.

― Tom, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i agree with everything tom said, more or less. i was thinking walking home the other night that if i was a musician or was thinking about becoming one you could do a lot worse for inspiration, enlightenment and generally avoiding the bollocks most musicians trade in by reading ilm's archives straight through for a month.

― jess, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

On one level I get to ask questions about bands I haven't heard and someone here always has. Also I get to discuss bands I've heard that none of my "real life" friends have with people who have the same general outlook.

Then theres the theoretical arguments which are educational to me, for want of a better word. I used some of the points made on the Canon thread today in a Sociology exam.

I don't want to sound silly and go on and on about ILM being great, so all I'll say is, when I think of the way I think about music NOW, in comparison to 7 months ago before I found ILM, there is no comparison. And I've also lost alot of the snobbery that being your own solitary music nuttah gives you through the realisation that lots of people hate some of the things I like.

I'd like to be able to contribute more valuably myself to be honest. That's the one thing I'd change. I take more than I give really, but I suppose I can't help that.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

In many ways I feel the opposite of Tom. I used to feel more "outside" the ILM viewpoint (there really isn't one, especially not now, but when I say that, I think of where Tim, Tom, David, Sterling and Jess overlap aesthetically) but now it seems there are plenty of people involved who think of music like I do, or have similar taste and background. But I've enjoyed reading what people have to say no matter where they are coming from.

As far as what I get: entertainment, of course. This is my favorite place and crowd to discuss music with. Even more important is how ILM has changed how I approach writing about music. Wherever I'm at with it now (and I still embarrass myself sometimes), I'd be in a lot worse shape, in terms of being able to articulate my ideas, without this forum. Its value as a critical tool cannot be overstated. I'm sure I wouldn't even be writing about music without ILM, come to think of it.

What I don't get: Actually, I think I do get what I want out of ILM. The only thing I will say is that a good chunk of the cultural theory business is of no interest to me. I don't want to single out Nitsuh and embarrass him, but his is the only analysis with an academic angle that I find entertaining (either he's not using the academic cultural critic's vernacular, or he's just really good at making it clear to a lay person.) But it's easy for me to skip over what I don't care for, so no complaints.

― Mark, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's interesting, but I know so little about what you mostly talk about (a lot of the music I've never even heard of) that I'm mostly lost and rarely post.

― Maria, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I use ILM to discover old artists I overlooked in the past. As far as discussions go, I find it hard to keep up for several reasons:

1) In the summer, I was at a computer all day at work, so I could contribute more easily.

2) I can't even string two coherent words together, let alone try and not come across like an inept moron in the company of people like Tom, Jess, Nitsuh or Ned (names that come to mind). I mean, all I can say is "me like that band very much" while discussions about rockism go on (as much as I read the other threads, I still don't know what that term means).

By the time I find a thread where I understand at least half of the things being discussed, I find little to contribute. That does not mean that I don't enjoy "listening in" on your discussions; I do.

I think what happened was once all the major bands got the C/D or S&D treatment (which anyone can easily contribute to), all that's pretty much left was to discuss more theoretical aspects of music and breaking down the relatively high-level discussions to more "cerebral" debates (wasn't there a thread dedicated to that very issue?). Which, by the way, is cool. It's just that not everyone can keep up with that (for whatever reasons).

Oh, I love ILM (start an ILILM board?). Nothing much to fix; I mean what can you do short of reviving all the C/Ds? I'm just giving one lurker's POV.

BTW, I'm guessing that the Big Thread Categorization is a lost cause, right?

― alex in montreal, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I had offered to do this when Josh was about to go back to school, but my life turned into a miasma of uncertainty and suffering at about that same time (death, relocation, general anxiety). I am finding myself with more time and less angst right now, and while I'm not necessarily up for full moderator's duties, I am certainly willing to take a whack at The Great Categorization, just to clean up some of the backlog.

― Sean Carruthers, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ha ha ha FOLLY.

― Josh, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

sean i have got so far as to draw up a BIG LIST OF POSSIBLY WORKABLE CATEGORIES (yay me, as if this was the problem ho hum), as i too planned to dive in when i got my new fast computer any day now

(that already filed would have to stay filed, unuseful cat hedz and all, but what came next could be directed to clearer folders etc)

email me if you want to collaborate on this

sorry to hear abt yr bad time also

― mark s, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

A freakin backache.

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What is ILM if not the epitome of FOLLY? It's why I love it so.
I will email you, Meester S.

― Sean Carruthers, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If there's one thing I'd like to change about ILM, it's that there were little synopses on the cultural/theoretical threads that would allow folks (OK, me) to contribute without trudging through 3 or 4 hours' worth of (undoubtedly enriching) reading.

If there is an ILM mindset, it is one that encourages free thinking and embraces ALL. I wish there was more play on the non-pop threads, but I can't complain, since every thread is tolerated and answered.

Were it not for ILM, I would still be stuck in my delusional indie world, torn between my burgeoning affinity for pop & my need to keep it "real". More importantly, were it not for ILM, I would not be procrastinating on an article discussing Britney's newfound sexitude (and why her music suffers because of it). There is no amount of gratitude that can repay such gifts.

― David Raposa, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I can't even string two coherent words together, let alone try and not come across like an inept moron in the company of people like Tom, Jess, Nitsuh or Ned

Fret not -- now you know how I feel when I read Nitsuh, Mark S or Tim, to name but three, namely pretty damn inept myself.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I just try to read and read and read. So much information to asorb here as it can really be hard to find a knowledgable group that isnt overtly biased in an identical manner. Now if only I could stop making short catty comments I would feel less silly.

― Mr Noodles, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

are you kidding? i spend half my time here (and in life in general) wandering around like a slack jawed zombie with a single strand of drool dangling from my lips.

braaaanes...braaaaaaanes...

(remind me to quit my job tomorrow please.)

― jess, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i pretty well disagree with nearly everything said here and i don't post all that much but it is still fun for me because it is a forum free from the silliness of other places no name-calling or instant insults from those you disagree with. i find the theoretical discussions all a bit over the top as i approach music from nearly a purely visceral point of view, and i am not always certain that people really spend that much time concerning themselves with the intricacies of mainstream pop music or are they just putting us all on? everyone here is also much better spoken than i, for my eyes, that is lovely.

― keith, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It turned me onto a lot of mainstream hip hop, where as I mostly listened to the typical college rap beforehand. And it made me feel less odd for liking cheesey house-ish music like Playgroup or the Jaxx. Where as when I was dj in college, groups of that nature weren't really accepted amongst the "wave" djs.

What don't I get out of it: well, we need more chicks. That seems to be true of music writing in general.

― bnw, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

cheesey house-ish music

But it's not so cheesy now, is it? ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm a musician/songwriter/producer/engineer, and when I'm in my studio with essentially a blank canvas, sometimes it helps to have had exposure to the kind of analysis/criticism that's featured on ILM. It's not any analysis in particular that helps, it's just a general sense of, "Oh, *that* probably wouldn't fly" when I have to put on the music critic hat on and decide if what I'm doing is working or not.

― popmusic, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think it's a good laugh. You would almost forget we're talking about music...

― helenfordsdale, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The 1st born was playing the Psx ^Popstarmaker^ Game - her buy/girl band includes Kate, Ally, Ethan and Jess. I daren't listen to the choons.

now you corrupt my kidz - damn you all !

― , Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

To hear about stuff I don't know.

To hear new angles on stuff I DO know.

To find wierd new connections between recds.

ILM does all of the above, and the people are nice too.

― Dr. C, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What Tom really gets out of ILM is ample fodder for his elaborate rap- star fantasies. Last week he mailed me, and I quote, "A screenshot from my BRANE as I slept and dreamt, blimey!"

At night, Tom, gentle and eloquent a fellow as he may be, still wears a giant Wu-Tang cape. I see no immediate danger in this.

― Tom's Psychoanalyst, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

screaming into the void!

― your null fame, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"It's interesting, but I know so little about what you mostly talk about (a lot of the music I've never even heard of) that I'm mostly lost and rarely post."

but what do you -get- out of it? ;)

― Chris, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Calls me out on some assumptions I haven't questioned, which is good, cuts down on the glib second-hand thoughts everyone's prone to.

― dave q, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What Do You Get Out Of ILM?

Delicious cookie recipes! So moist and chewy!

― Lord Custos, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

as someone knew to the board i have to say so far i've felt a bit alienated by the cliqueyness of it all.

but then i do hate people. so fuck all y'all!

― david, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

*weeps* Just stick around. Think of it as a conversation where inevitable in-jokes can be worked through.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I do think that sometimes folks on ILM can be *too* brutal with their criticism of certain artists/music. (An example would be ILM's frequent flogging of the Beatles...) That's probably a big reason why I'm more of a lurker than a poster... I don't feel comfortable posting in an environment that sometimes appears to be filled with sharks waiting for fresh meat. :-D

Still, I like having my views challenged... Sometimes the debates give me an insight on an artist or song that I didn't have before, and sometimes the debates only reinforce the way I already feel. In any case, it's entertaining. :-)

― popmusic, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My main problem with ILM is its similarity to crack.

― Ben Williams, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

makes me think. turns me on to stuff. place to be when not elsewhere.

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Me too I would like to post more and esp. more substantial stuff here but at least ILM forces me to express myself on the music I like a little. I read ILM out of curiosity. To know what others who usually know much more on music than me think about music I know or don't know yet. ILM also educates me in tolerance a little I feel. Before I could not imagine that serious music listeners could appreciate bands like Abba. Especially your taste Tom surprised me a lot in the beginning. But I really like your posts as they are usually quite profound and clever. So ILM definitely opened up my musical horizon. I don't get a lot out of the theory discussions, I connect to music in a direct way without theoretic "Überbau" (superstructure). I use ILM also to ask some questions on music or artists. I like to start a thread and see the answers flowing in.

― alex in mainhattan, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ronan and Mark are OTM. Very few of my real life friends have heard of, let alone enjoy, many of the bands I like. ILM is an entertaining, intelligent forum where I can see what others think coming from a viewpoint more similar to my own. In addition, I already think my writing style has improved (or at least, I have more ideas) and of course, it's a great way to kill downtime at work.

The inevitable drawback: the intimidation. I don't post much because there's just too many darn smart people around here (not to mention the intimidation that comes from not being in the core group of posters). I think I might get more out of ILM if that intimidation weren't there, but it seems like something that comes at the expense of intelligent discussion.

― Vinnie, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Vinnie, vinnie. Just read my posts. If I can post, anyone can. Just do it.

― helenfordsdale, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I've gotten a lot of recommends for interesting records to listen to, and less worrying over barriers between pop/rock/hip-hop.
There is something of an ILM way of writing and making assessments, I believe, one that privileges logic in arguing over music - I'm not going to go on a long theoretical rant here - but why do lots of people want to write like Nitsuh? Nitsuh always posts thoughtful and thought-provoking ideas, I am just not clear on why so many aspire to write in the same way.

― daria gray, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Can we call a moratorium on this "not smart enough to post" silliness? It seems that EVERYONE has an issue w/ what they're posting, and EVERYONE seems to be a smart cookie, and none of you folks questioning your posting skills has any right to do so, so how's about we all stop kicking ourselves in the butt and just post? And this goes for non-posters, too - you'll get more out of the discussion if you participate. (Who'da thunk that my high school teachers were actually RIGHT?)

― David Raposa, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Daria, no disrespect to Nitsuh, but I think that style of writing was common here before he arrived (even if he's a particularly talented exponent). I'm interested to know exactly what you mean by "privileging logic in arguing over music" - should I read this as simply privileging logic, or privileging logic over music? In fact this whole argument tends to mystify me; how are we supposed to be talking?

― Tim, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ILM makes me laugh, think, and validates my brain being filled with music trivia.

Plus lots of edgy-sounding slang to show off to my friends!

― felicity, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Why Felicity, you mean you call your friends cockfarmers? ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"how's about we all stop kicking ourselves in the butt and just post?"

Sympathetic point, but please consider us English-as-second-language types... ;-)

― JoB in Amsterdam, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Aside from the fact that it's something for me to do when I am too tired to do anything else, or when I am trying to avoid doing other things which need to be done (like cleaning my bathroom, at the moment). . .

I can't say that it has particularly changed the way I listen or look at things, nor do I expect that it will. I like the fact that it's a busy, fairly broad-ranging forum.

I think my contribution here is necessarily going to be minimal, since although I still listen to new music, I am not enthusiastic about most of it. The only thing I am likely to keep current with in a sympathetic way is salsa, which is obviously of marginal interest here. (I can't say that salsa music is in a particularly strong phase right now, but I like the genre enough that I find plenty of new things that I enjoy listening to. Of course, I am new to this, so I have a big backlog of things to work through as well.)

― DeRayMi, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But you see, DRM, it's the fact that you know your salsa that is a good thing, because that way you can give Tips, Suggestions and Pointers to those of us who labor under ignorance. Even what may seem like a small or side contribution can help. :-)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Get the salsa out of the fridge, DRM! The only salsa I hear comes from the flat-tire fix place next door and I'm always like "who IS this?" when there's something good on, but those guys never know who it is, or at least they pretend not to. Every song seems like a standard that's been covered like 50 times and the thrill is hearing this week's update. But I know nothing about the artists or the songs.

― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thanks. The problem is I'm not much of an expert on this music myself, and often I don't know "who it is" when I hear things in clubs (and I only ask the DJ on very rare occasions), but if there is anything in this new batch of CDs I've just ordered that I especially like, maybe I'll post some comments. There are certain things I like, but that don't strike me as recordings that would appeal to someone not already into the music.

― DeRayMi, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, try us. Or put up a couple of mp3s or something. We'll listen. :-)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Okay, I'll at least post a list of recommended songs some time soon. Other than downloading MP3s from other sources, I haven't really dealt with them, so I don't know how to post an MP3 somewhere, though this might be a good excuse to learn.

Frankie Ruiz (Puerto Rican) and Joe Arroyo (Colombian) are a couple of favorites of mine.

Tracer Hand, I wonder if what you heard just sounded like covers of the same songs? Of course, there is almost certainly a lot more covering of standards in salsa than there is in rock (especially at the level of established performers). With a big band, you have lots of possibilities for new arrangements. Hector Lavoe songs have been covered quite a bit

― DeRayMi, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.