Why I hate CDs

If you're talking about the sound rather than the jackets, hell yeah. As good as CDs are now, and both the players and the media have come a long way, they're just not as good as conveying the feeling and emotion of music as well as LPs. This topic seems to come up over and over in different guises, and the answers are always the same. Most people think you're nuts if you mention words like "emotion" when it comes to sound reproduction... after all, you're only reproducing data, right? Well, yeah, but Dave's post is directly addressing this quandry: why do the records have more "feeling" than the CD? Someone (g I think) is gonna say "it's all in the mastering" or words to that effect, and true, good CD mastering will sound better than poor. But there's something about a properly played back LP that always conveys the emotion, the feeling, the music better than CD to me. Many disagree, many dont' even know what I'm talking about. Ah, why do I bother.....

If you really are just talking about the jackets, ignore above rant.

But the problem with records is that you have to get up and flip them over. Recorded media = dud.

It's all about seven hour long mp3 discs. Bliss.

could it just be the context you're using? pretty tough to beat power of still and my war in the sinister dept no matter what the medium?

No, no, I understand completely what you're talking about, Dave. There was another thread about how an album cover influences the way you listen to music, and I think even an artwork change can really have a big psychological impact on the way you hear the music (I trot out again my experience with Jane's Addition's Ritual de lo Habitual, which just felt far better when I had the version with the proper cover instead of the white censored version. It matters.)

I think the size is actually part of it, because it allows some of the character to come out. With Still in particular, I think there was some pattern embossed into the cover, no? Which you don't get with the CD version. Also when it comes to Still, you've got yourself a single CD with fairly uninteresting packaging and a shiny plastic case, but when you go for the vinyl version it's very interesting from a tactile perspective, and the extra weight added by the second record makes it seem that much more...heavy. In both senses of the word. When it comes to something like Black Flag, I tend to think back to the time when it was released, and the covers of those albums were so much more ...independent? amateurish? You could tell with a quick look that this wasn't some big corporation jamming more Journey albums down your throat, but you can't feel that so much anymore looking at the same albums on CD. Perhaps it's just time being a leveller, making those same albums part of the new mainstream, as much as hardcore can ever be considered that.

And for the record, I actually prefer CDs when it comes to the listening part. But I certainly get this phenomenon and it makes me wistful...until I remember that I don't really have the patience for cleaning my records constantly, or the money to afford a good enough turntable.

Sean - yaeh, that's what I'm talking about. It isn't really the recorded media. It's as you said, the ameturism of the Raymond Pettibone artwork, the thick cardboard of Still, .. May CDs are kind of homogenous because they (almost) all come in plastic boxes. I have an LP and a CD of This Nation's Saving Grace - I listen to the CD, not the LP. But the CD case may just as well be "The Best of the Babys" because I just don't care what it looks like.

It's knowing at the record store what to buy, based on the cover. You could just browse - and you see something with a really bad cover, so you know the record is something worth buying. I have never gotten that vibe from a CD.

The problem, I think, is that the size of LPs gave designers room to try something a bit different occasionally, and whether they went too far off the beaten track or not, a lot of them really had their own character. On the other hand, the move to CDs in the early days forced a real scale-back, because it all had to fit into one of those cruddy little jewel boxes. Yeah, yeah, they protect the CD and the booklet really well, but it really limited what you could do with it, and yes, the shiny plastic box made virtually every CD look the same. Stupidly, the industry still hasn't broken out of this mindset in TWENTY YEARS, apart from the occasional variance into paper-sleeved Digipaks (though all of these look the same, too). I think CD artwork is just starting to come into its own now, with more companies doing more interesting things all the time. I get a really nice feeling looking through the 3CD Miles Davis Complete In a Silent Way sessions, because whoever put that together put some real thought into the design, and it FEELS nice. The two Molasses albums I just picked up used have some thought put into the design, too, making them very interesting to hold and look at, despite the limited size.

Overall, I suspect the biggest reason that people don't take risks with the CD packaging, risks that would give a CD that same feeling of wonder and discovery that I (and obviously you) can get from a well-designed LP sleeve is the fact that the resulting CDs wouldn't fit into the security shells that most retail outlets require now, therefore wouldn't get front-racked, and therefore wouldn't sell. Which is really a pathetic reason, when you consider Molasses again: they invest the money in the sleeve to make the whole package a jewel, without charging any extra money at retail, knowing full well it's not going to sell by the truckload anyhow. Same goes for a lot of the stuff on Constellation. I'm finding that labels like that make the whole process a lot more interesting, even when I don't necessarily like the music so much.

OK, guess we are talking about album covers, so yes of course, LP jackets are better yay! And yes, the "Complete In a Silent Way Sessions" box is a very nice package.

I agree with you completely Sean altho one thing I would point out w/ that first Molasses record is that it was too difficult to get the CD out from that slipcase w/ out tearing the cover. Another problem w/ CD design has been that when it gets too creative, it's often loses its useability (also Stereolab's Aluminum Tunes cardboard cover. But still yes, I agree with you generally.

True about the first Molasses cover; very interesting, but prolonged usability may be at risk there. (I just ripped it to MP3 so I didn't have to keep stressing the cardboard.)

Another recent package that comes to mind is the Constantines CD, which comes complete with a piece of a random cardboard box, a specially cut cover and an unused match peeking through a window. That could be dangerous to the CD if you somehow crush the cover, but I guess the point is that you should never do that, anyhow.

Both Seans are in a posting frenzy on this thread. I think my head is about to explode.

I miss putting an album that has a headshot for a cover--like, say, the RCA Space Oddity from the 70s--up to my face and pretending I am the artist. It just doesn't work as well with a cd insert.

Ground control to Major Art.

Oh, Arthur, I only posted twice.

*puts Nico's "Marble Index" up to face*

If you had to do that with a CD, Phil Collins' Face Value might work, unfortunately.

Quick question: have you ever noticed that really, really old songs that were recently mastered to CD from vinyl sources when no master tape was available, sometimes even 78 rpm records, sound like vinyl? I have some compilation cds with songs from the 40s that sound like a vinyl record being played through a tube radio. I think that might prove that the vinyl sound is added to the true sound of the music and THIS is the sound people dig. I admit it myself, it sounds nice.

Mosaic Records let's you experience The Complete in A Silent Way Sessions on both formats, together. Let LP and CD artwork duke it out for supremecy in yr livingroom.

I can't really think of too many albums mastered from 78s, but listening to the likes of Saturday Night Fish Fry (or other releases on Soul Jazz/Sounds of the Universe), when they have to master from the original 45s cuz the masters are lost, the pops are distracting when listening in a digital medium, and don't add any authenticity..

Ah, maybe we're all just getting old...

The year I bought a CD player was the year I got my first graduate job, and hence the year I first had anything approaching a disposable income - so instead of buying the occasional LP (that I actually had to save up for), I found myself returning home from town with armfuls of shiny jewel cases. It inevitably made the whole purchase/first listen ritual less special. Nor did I tend to dwell on my more mediocre acquisitions and try and glean something of worth from them - why bother when I was accumulating new product at five times the previous rate? There'll be another one along in a minute...

So, a lot of the 'mystery' went through simply buying too many records - and this is always something I'll associate with my switch (not 100%, mind) from vinyl to CD. Come the mid-late 90s and suddenly compact discs are things you can make yourself. Bah. (Whether I'd find vinyl LPs so utterly commonplace if I had a Neumann cutting lathe in the living room is another matter).

But there are some lovely looking things around in the realm of CD case design - the raster-noton series, those cyclo/Wauvenfold pop-out thingies, Winter & Winter's corrugated paper designs, the Chain Reaction metal boxes, and, best of all, the magnificent ring-bound translucent wonder of Verve's Jobim 3-disc pack.

I do enjoy the ritual of playing LPs, but loathe warps, off-centre discs, dust, end-of-side distortion and noisy pressings as much as I did in my vinyl-only days. (I realise that plenty of people go the 180gm route thesedays, but it's still no guarantee of trouble-free playback).

What I hate about CDs?? You breathe on them, they scratch. If the wind is out of the East, they scratch. You look at them wrong, they scratch.

These are CDs in the sense of 'cleansing dips,' I assume.

What I hate about CDs?? You breathe on them, they scratch. If the wind is out of the East, they scratch. You look at them wrong, they scratch.

Eh? Pam & I have around 1300 of the buggers (a huge number acquired second-hand) and precisely three of them skip - a Sinatra/Riddle thing that was clearly used to scour a frying pan at some point in its life, an Orbital album with a bloody great gouge on the outer edge (which only affects the last 30 seconds) and a scuffed- up Harold Budd CD which only skips on my portable. Oh, and Kid A but, thanks to the wonders of modern computing, I was able to rip that and burn a skip-free CD-R. (Possible waste of 40p).

This does not happen to your CDs regularly? I must be doing something wrong then. I can't imagine what - I handle the things with as much care as I would raw plutonium.

It's probably your CD player, Patrick. A cheap one will have everything skipping.

mine scratch all the time and i'm careful with them too.

Mine scratch cos I have parties and people treat them like shit.

This does not happen to your CDs regularly? I must be doing something wrong then. I can't imagine what - I handle the things with as much care as I would raw plutonium.

Maybe that's yr problem - it's easier to get them out of the jewel case without the use of a glove box and breathing apparatus.

Other than that, maybe you have a militantly pro-vinyl poltergeist.

It seems like nearly all of mine skip now, but that may have something to do with the cheapness of my cd player. No such problem with my turntable tho, and it's nearly thirteen.

Only two or three of my CDs are scratched - what do you people do, play frisbee with them or something?

Can't say that too many of mine are all scratched up, but when I buy used I do manage to get some with the occasional scratch...but they play fine, usually. Definitely, though, cheapo players aren't your friend, especially ones with the speakers built right in...the second you crank it, the vibration causes skips.

cos there all crap.

I know exactly what Sean #1 (the Saturn one) is talking about.
There's something about the experience of vinyl, of knowing that its matter is degrading bit by bit each time you play it, or that you're bound to goof up and scratch it in some minor yet unavoidable way, that each time you play it, it can only sound slightly more scratched and warped, never less so, that makes it seem like you can hear the record sacrificing itself for each performance. At its snuff-film- like extreme, it is the perverse mixture of joy and sadness at seeing a DJ wave around some old-looking blues or jazz record right before you know he's going to scratch the living crap out of it.

Can anyone point me to the thread that went on forever between Michael Jones and someone else about 48khz vs 44.1 and so forth and so on? Where is the friggin' search function on this damn site! ARRRRGHGGGHGGHGH!

Can anyone point me to the thread that went on forever between Michael Jones and someone else about 48khz vs 44.1 and so forth and so on?

I'll let you have the URL as long as you promise not to re-start the debate...

Change the last three characters of this thread's URL to 'TqL'.

yay! thanks! i just wanted to show my friend something. Danke!

Wait, I can't get it to work.

ah, case sensitive. apologies.

I was at an event last Friday where the DJ was scratching vinyl records and found myself unable to watch. So, two thoughts: (1) obviously the act of scratching out data from the discs did not fill me with any joy whatsoever, and (2) perhaps there was something about the context of the situation that made me more ashamed to watch. Like maybe talking about it here?

Ahh, the terrifying realization of just *how* many scales have been covering my eyes. But relief at having them begin to drop off.

Hope yer road to Damascus wasn't a bumpy one.

Felicity it sounds like maybe he was just a bad DJ?

Back to original question, sort of: Was Pet Shop Boys' Very ever released on vinyl? If so, what was the cover like?