Do you consider geeky/weird non-mainstream music fans of genres like RAVER CRAP and METAL to be as intellectual as you and your peers?

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well

― absolutego (ex machina), Saturday, 2 April 2005 05:51 (twenty years ago)

I can't speak for "raver crap", as I don't know any fans of that sorta stuff, but I know fans of "non-mainstream" metal who have PhD's. Literally.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 2 April 2005 05:57 (twenty years ago)

depends; is NOIZE one of these genres?

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 2 April 2005 06:08 (twenty years ago)

i went to law school w/ a bunch of people into "raver crap" -- so if you consider having a JD to be "intellectual," then i guess that i do know some such folks.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 2 April 2005 06:10 (twenty years ago)

as intellectual? no. more intellectual? YES!

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 2 April 2005 06:25 (twenty years ago)

Before I started listening to raver crap and metal I couldn't even spell the word intelectul. Now I are one!

― moley, Saturday, 2 April 2005 06:31 (twenty years ago)

Assumuing of course that I myself am an intellectual...and being a fan of METAL would mean that I would have to assume that I am not an intellectual.

Owww. My brain hurts.

I like beer.

― VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 2 April 2005 06:55 (twenty years ago)

This question is completely idiotic. I'm a pretty serious academic graduate type and I was a total metalhead like five years ago. Generally I consider those who make assumptions about people based on what popular music they like to be on par with severe down syndrome cases. Quite frankly, your fetish doesn't mean shit. I'm much more interested in what books you read and ideas you hold than what rock sound you happen to like. "OOOOh, indie rock is so complex and intellectual!" Give me a fucking break.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 2 April 2005 06:57 (twenty years ago)

I don't mean to say that the person who authored this is an idiotic, only the idea that people are less or more intellectual based on their tastes in popular music.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 2 April 2005 06:59 (twenty years ago)

metalheads are often nerds, but rarely intellectuals

― Phil Ron Hubbard, Saturday, 2 April 2005 07:02 (twenty years ago)

Few people are intellectuals. Most intellectuals I know sure as hell aren't listening to indie rock. A few are.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 2 April 2005 07:03 (twenty years ago)

The point is that rock fans masquerading as intellectuals are usually clueless morons, especially when they reinforce their superiority by thumbing their noses at other genres. There's nothing lamer than rock enthusiasts trying to claim cultural elites status because of their "elite" collection of 7 inches by that totally rad band the Shitty K's.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 2 April 2005 07:07 (twenty years ago)

haha way to overreact James

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 2 April 2005 07:09 (twenty years ago)

It's almost as bad as listening to black metal kids sitting around talking about how "totally artistic" their music is and how no one in the mainstream gets it because it's "too fucking elite man." Different side of the same coin.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 2 April 2005 07:10 (twenty years ago)

I love overreacting. Usually people think it's anger, but usually I can care less. Just like being a dick online.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 2 April 2005 07:11 (twenty years ago)

While the link between pop tastes and how intellectual one is is a bit off base and shallowly elitist, there is probably a correlation between intellect and the type of music one listens to. However James has the best point when intellectualism is probably best judged by what books one has read, and even more, what someone thinks of those books and what opinions and ideas someone holds on politics, philosophy, blah blah blah...

― jmeister (jmeister), Saturday, 2 April 2005 07:14 (twenty years ago)

Yeah.

I also think there's something to be said for an healthy appreciation of dumb things. Not that I'm necessarily saying metal is inherently dumb or anything, but I definitely own some dumb metal, among other dumb things, and enjoy it wholeheartedly.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 2 April 2005 07:17 (twenty years ago)

Dumb metal is escapism, pure and simple..... and who -- intellectual or otherwise -- can't use a little of that every now and again?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 2 April 2005 07:21 (twenty years ago)

Alex OTM, I remember a a couple years ago I was pissed off about something (don't remember) and I wanted some loud aggressive music to listen to. All I had was Nevermind. WTF that was the best I could do. So I can definitely get behind the idea of metal being escapist.

― jmeister (jmeister), Saturday, 2 April 2005 07:25 (twenty years ago)

I totally wasn't expecting this to be a JW thread!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 2 April 2005 10:12 (twenty years ago)

intellectuals listen to classical music!

― jake b. (cerybut), Saturday, 2 April 2005 10:15 (twenty years ago)

I'd *never* consider someone else as intellectual as me.

Now let's bring on the thrash! RE-TA-LI-ATE! I LOVE TO SEE 'EM BLEED!

― Øystein (Øystein), Saturday, 2 April 2005 10:25 (twenty years ago)

I love the fact that "raver crap" is still used as an epithet in some circles. RAVING WAS TEN YEARS AGO, KIDDO. Anyway, no, one's musical taste cannot be used to measure one's intellectual clout, ever.

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Saturday, 2 April 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

Intellectuals listen to whatever they want to listen to. It's just that most tenured professors, public professionals, established thinkers, successful artists etc. are middle-aged and so generally listen to the popular music they liked when they were younger, unless they're desperately trying to stay on top of the zeitgetist. Yes, in 20 years, there will be professors who nostalgically listen to indie rock, metal, or whatever they happen to listen to now, but very few will be buying the latest "cutting edge" (which probably won't be cutting edge anyway) rock bands.

This idea that there are forms of music antithetical to "thinking people" is patently bogus. Most smart people I know are fairly open to many forms of music, even those forms they might think are slightly ridiculous. And yes, I actually do know academics that listen to metal.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 2 April 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

Well, contemporary classical is certainly geeky/weird/non-mainstream...and populated mostly with "intellectuals" as it's audience. Not to mention so-called "math-metal", IDM, early industrial, performance artists with a musical bent, etc. And "Lipstick Traces" by Greil Marcus does a pretty good job of linking the anti-intellectual ethos of early punk to the dadaists and Situalationist Leftristes, if you buy his argument.

So yeah, I guess I do.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Sunday, 3 April 2005 04:47 (twenty years ago)

http://www.mackron.com/random/fingergirl.jpg

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 3 April 2005 04:48 (twenty years ago)

or, pre-school PLUR

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 3 April 2005 04:48 (twenty years ago)

what happened to the "ravers," anyway?

― Will M. (Will M.), Sunday, 3 April 2005 05:43 (twenty years ago)

raver crap was pretty mainstream weren't it? or is it the geeky weird fans that are non mainstream? is geir a geeky non mainstream fan of music that is mainstream?

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Sunday, 3 April 2005 05:51 (twenty years ago)

Isn't ILM pretty much the house magazine of intellectuals who listen to metal and raver crap?

DNFTT!

― phil jones (interstar), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)

If Jon & Scott S. had a baby, s/he would create the best thread titles.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:29 (twenty years ago)

Who the fuck would consider themselves an "intellectual"?

― David Allen (David Allen), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

I knew this was a Jon Williams thread.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:51 (twenty years ago)

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/russell/russell.jpeg http://www.newprophecy.net/George_Plimpton.jpg http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/partypictures/2004/01_08_04/images/strand/K006.jpg i

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:54 (twenty years ago)

(some intellectuals)

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:54 (twenty years ago)

Do you guys think that anyone who likes Coheed and Cambria can have a life as rich in meaning as your life?

― absolutego (ex machina), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:56 (twenty years ago)

Who the fuck would consider themselves an "intellectual"?

Writers involved in political issues of their time.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:58 (twenty years ago)

Do you guys think that anyone who likes Coheed and Cambria can have a life as rich in meaning as your life?

I don't know, can objectivists find happiness?

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 4 April 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

Is it wrong for me to consider a "feminist" stupid for liking Ayn Rand considering some of the rape stuff in her novels?

― absolutego (ex machina), Monday, 4 April 2005 14:10 (twenty years ago)

Except Larry Burrows loves megadeth so you can suck my susan sontag.

― David Allen (David Allen), Monday, 4 April 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/96/13/04_10_1.jpg

― absolutego (ex machina), Monday, 4 April 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

all "intellectual" means is that you make a living with your mind. it's not an honorific.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 4 April 2005 17:44 (twenty years ago)

most "intellectuals" I know make a living working shitty retail!

― absolutego (ex machina), Monday, 4 April 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

Is it wrong for me to consider a "feminist" stupid for liking Ayn Rand considering some of the rape stuff in her novels?

UH it isn't wrong to consider "anyone" stupid for liking ayn rand considering like everything ever having to do wit hher including gregory peck.

― stoic., Monday, 4 April 2005 17:47 (twenty years ago)

Sometimes I think people who claim to like Ayn Rand have never read her novels....

― absolutego (ex machina), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

Sometimes I think people who claim to like Ayn Rand have never read her novels....

They're just Rush fans.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:09 (twenty years ago)

Not to defend objectivism here, but her novels != the canon of objectivist writing. She wrote plenty of philosophical things in addition to the ponderous banality of Atlas Shrugged & The Fountainhead.

― Ian John50n (orion), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

and i think metalheads are probably more intellectual, on average, than the typical Postal Service fan I go to school with!

― Ian John50n (orion), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

I love the 80s!

― absolutego (ex machina), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

Not to defend objectivism here, but her novels != the canon of objectivist writing. She wrote plenty of philosophical things in addition to the ponderous banality of Atlas Shrugged & The Fountainhead.

yeah, but (a) it's JUST AS BAD; or (b) it's just annotated excerpts from atlas shrugged or the fountainhead.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

Not to defend objectivism here
Not to defend objectivism here
Not to defend objectivism here
Not to defend objectivism here
Not to defend objectivism here

― Ian John50n (orion), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

I just bought the new My Chemical Romance disc used for four dollars ...or....C/D: Buying Music that is Clearly Designed for someone Younger than Yourself.

― absolutego (ex machina), Monday, 4 April 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

A lot of the A+ science/geography/maths etc Geniuseses at my place were/became metal kids. Indie was the choice of the dull directionless tossers who didn't like sport and so couldn't fit into that crowd but needed an amorphous social pack to latch onto so no-one would notice that they had next to nothing to offer the world. They all died alone.

― A / F#m / Bm / D (Lynskey), Monday, 4 April 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

Raver carp, if it's done right, can be delicious.

― 57 7th (calstars), Monday, 4 April 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Grilled with lots of salt and herbs, served with butter & lemon.

― Ian John50n (orion), Monday, 4 April 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

My band plays metal carp, but we don't get too many friends at our gig. They are pikers.

― moley, Monday, 4 April 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

http://www.designsfromtheheart.org/mivastore/graphics/00000001/ocsmall.jpg

― moley, Monday, 4 April 2005 20:29 (twenty years ago)

http://www.gabrieleaceto.de/Sam.jpg

― moley, Monday, 4 April 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

Weight for the Bass

― moley, Monday, 4 April 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

Shut up moley.

― moley, Monday, 4 April 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

Oddly, in my high school in Portland Oregon, metalheads/stoners (essentially the same thing, at my HS) were called "carps." I've never figured out the etymology of this. I once asked the members of Karp, who were from nearby Olympia WA, if they had the same terminology, assuming that's where their band's name came from. Alas, it was but a coincidence.

― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 01:43 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

Raver crap'n metal

http://home.earthlink.net/~haydoug/images/photo_galleries/3day/portajohn1.jpg

― PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Thursday, 2 June 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

Saw James Elroy read once, and someone asked him about possible films of his books(this was pre LA CONFIDENTIAL) His response was that his feeling about film rights was basically to take the money. His feeling about Hollywood movies vs novels was summed up in a question that might be relevant:

"What's the most PROFOUND hamburger you've ever eaten?"

Forget about the politics of hamburgers, forget it was Elroy, but consider - aren't there limits to what a three minute single can say?

― Soukesian, Thursday, 2 June 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

Now I would like to know what is NOT profound about a hamburger? Hamburgers are deeply meaningful, even the ones without beetroot.

― moley, Thursday, 2 June 2005 20:54 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

revive

― Eisbaer, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 03:53 (eighteen years ago)

"aren't there limits to what a three minute single can say?"

probably the same limits a painting or a sculpture or a poem might have.

― circa1916, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 04:44 (eighteen years ago)

you don't grill carp, you cook them in a smoker. actually, you usually chuck them back in the water because they are disgusting

― 6335, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

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