"Given the will to do so and the time, anyone is capable of loving any album"

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From Stylus article'On First listen: Modest Mouse article':

I do think that given the will to do so and the time, anyone is capable of loving any album. It doesn’t matter how much I think a given record sucks, if I make space for it in my life for long enough, I will eventually find myself humming the songs under my breath and wanting to keep it. I also believe that bad albums are those which are not worth the time it takes for this to happen.

This is something I've been debating about for a long time. I once did pretty much the same experiment with Talking Heads' Fear of Music. At that time I hated the band and the first few listens of the album comforted me in that opinion. I stuck to my idea though and forced myself to listen to this on constant repeat. It took me about a week to change my mind and now it's one of my favorite albums.

The implications of this statement are a bit depressing though...

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)

I totally agree with this bold and depressing statement... taste is so overrated.

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:45 (twenty years ago)

I stuck to my idea though and forced myself to listen to this on constant repeat. It took me about a week to change my mind and now it's one of my favorite albums

If I tried this with, say, The Cranberries, I reckon dead by my own hand by the end of the week

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:47 (twenty years ago)

so your taste lies in your hand ?

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:49 (twenty years ago)

Exsqueeze me?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:50 (twenty years ago)

Creed.

I challenge someone to make themselves like Creed.

― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:52 (twenty years ago)

nah forget it. silly unfunny post lunch joke...
but i do believe the thread is true. serious.

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:52 (twenty years ago)

or maybe not "like" but "enjoy". something more physical than intellectual.

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:53 (twenty years ago)

I'd rather say the opposite. Even the most excellent and classic album will be a pain in the ass to you if you torture yourself by listening to it 5-6 times daily.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:02 (twenty years ago)

oh no, i can easily listen to a song/an album i love multiple times. "repeat all" was made for me !

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:04 (twenty years ago)

This sounds much like masochism to me!

Is this really a question about how "catchiness" works? Or about getting used to certain sounds? Or about it taking time to figure out anything complex melodically or rhythmically?

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:05 (twenty years ago)

That writer should be forced to listen to Modern Talking albums 24/7

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:07 (twenty years ago)

That last Fiery Furnaces album was the last record I tried doing this experimant with. Melodically it's all pretty simple (bland even), but structurally and lyrically it's rather more complex. Repeated listens helped me to figure out what was going on there, but it *still* sounded like an annoying bunch of shitty nursery rhymes all strung together and hence it's filed away in my Ebay pile.

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:11 (twenty years ago)

Well, imagine you were on a deserted island (or even a dessert island), with a record player and "no need to argue" the Cranberries the only album.

You might play it once in a while. Even look forward to it.

Heck, anyone stranded with "Trout Mask Replica" would be holding weekly dances with it after three years...

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:12 (twenty years ago)

with time i can grow accustomed to anything, sure...even appreciate and become habitual with any record much like knowing when to sit, stand, or kneel durring a catholic mass, or blindly making my way from my home to my office without coffee first.

but i'll never like james taylor. hes just to creedy.

there is clearly some truth in that statement, but i think there are some things that simply can't achieve an aesthetic enjoyability. some things just rub against the grain.

― b b, Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:17 (twenty years ago)

Stewart Osborne does that anyway, desert island or not (xpost)

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:17 (twenty years ago)

Well, one implication of this is that since the human psyche constantly seeks familiarity, the more we know a record, the less subjective taste matters.

xpost

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:18 (twenty years ago)

I think the "loving" part makes it untrue. (I don't think mark's examples are examples of love.) I also don't think that everyone is capable of it without major adjustments in temperament and lifestyle.

3xpost

― the fucker that will burn you (sundar), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

I don't think musical taste exists in a vacuum... I might have "This Is How You Remind Me" running through my head, and not be annoyed by it - but then an image of Chad Kroeger's beardy visage pops into my head, seriously curtailing any enjoyment of the song.

I don't want to consider if further contemplation of the bearded one might lessen my dislike of him.

― ledge (ledge), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:21 (twenty years ago)

Even the counter-examples so far are all really major artists in non-favourite genres. Anyone eager to try this with demos from my high school's band wars?

― the fucker that will burn you (sundar), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:27 (twenty years ago)

Umm, you go first...

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:28 (twenty years ago)

"Given the will to do so and the time...

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:30 (twenty years ago)

What genre are The Cranberries in?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:30 (twenty years ago)

Soft fruits.

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:34 (twenty years ago)

But I normally love that genre: e.g., The Raspberries

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:39 (twenty years ago)

you a Strawbs fan?

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:43 (twenty years ago)

I think it's probably true in a way. I know that with certain flavors I dislike -- licorice, olives, raw tomatoes -- exposure helps me to think "This doesn't taste bad, it just tastes like licorice." Similarly, I would guess that after the 50th listen, I might get to the point of, "This doesn't sound bad, it just sounds like Creed." I don't know whether I would get past that to "This is my new favorite CD" in ordinary circumstances. but I can see it happening in a desert island situation.

― Lyra Jane (Lyra Jane), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:44 (twenty years ago)

Maybe I'm gonna go home now and subject myself to a two week diet of Four Non Blondes' "What's Up?"

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:46 (twenty years ago)

Chuck Berry
Dave Berry
Mike Berry
Moby Grape
The Strawbs
Berry Gordy
"Blackberry Way"
"Raspberry Way"
"Here We Go Round the Mulberry Bush"

... love 'em all

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:50 (twenty years ago)

Hey, everybody loved that "What's up" song, until listen number three...

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:52 (twenty years ago)

Would have figured the Strawbs to be too prog for you.

― the fucker that will burn you (sundar), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:54 (twenty years ago)

I think "desert island" circumstances go further than "will and time to do so". The availability of other (even background) music and recreational activities would seem to stand in the way of really loving Yar's 4-track demo from 1994.

(I'm being this fussy because I do think the basic sentiment behind the question has truth to it and I'm trying to test it.)

― the fucker that will burn you (sundar), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

Change the word "loving" to "tolerating" in the title and I might agree. But no matter how long I tried, I'm quite sure that there are many, many albums I could never love. Perhaps under the right circumstances I could enjoy them for a few minutes, but they would never become something I'd want to hear regularly - even on a desert island. I'd make instruments out of coconut shells and perform my own tunes before I'd fall in love with a crap album.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:00 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, it was the "loving" that I had the issue with. I'm pretty sure I could tolerate any music in the right circumstances.

― the fucker that will burn you (sundar), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:01 (twenty years ago)

Yeah maybe "loving" is excessive but I think it goes beyond tolerating. Maybe "develop some attachment to"

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:05 (twenty years ago)

i think it's a silly generalisation: it's as if you don't really have the choice to dislike. i mean, no matter how much i listen to limp bizkit, celine dion or zappa, i'll never like their records. actually i'd probably grow to dislike'em even more. sure, you have to give a record the chance/time but that doesn't mean you're gonna like it in the end. or even tolerate.

― nathalie doing a soft foot shuffle (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:08 (twenty years ago)

I learnt how to love Zappa using this method...

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:12 (twenty years ago)

Nope, I've tried that method with Zappa for the best part of 30 years and it doesn't work.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:15 (twenty years ago)

http://pbskids.kids.us/images/sub-square-barney.gif

― akon, Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:16 (twenty years ago)

spend a week with Hot Rats

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:17 (twenty years ago)

Actually I don't like The Strawbs but I just stuck them in for the sake of completion.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:17 (twenty years ago)

Do you think if Barney spent a week with "Hot Rats" he'd love Zappa?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:18 (twenty years ago)

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00004W55I.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I LOVE IT!!

― akon, Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:19 (twenty years ago)

What about music that you're overexposed to via a girlfriend, sibling or roommate? For instance, my brother listens to 311 incessantly. I don't hate the band, but I definitely do not look forward to hearing them and wouldn't care if I never did again. And it's not that I don't 'get it' or haven't been exposed enough to them (lord knows that's not true). My college roommate did the same thing with Pearl Jam.

― Keith C (kcraw916), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:20 (twenty years ago)

somebody with better photoshop skills than me should paste Barney coming out of that Hot Rats swimming pool.

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:20 (twenty years ago)

I think we can break it down as follows:

* You hear it initially and you love it.
* You hear it initially, don't get it or even hate it, but you still give it a chance because others who have similar taste to you love it. Eventually (possibly even years later), you finally love it yourself.
* Same as above, except it never gets to the love stage. At best it gets to an 'eh' or even moderate liking or respect.
* You hear it and it sucks, and it remains sucky for eternity and you lose no sleep over it.

― Keith C (kcraw916), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:31 (twenty years ago)

And it's a wrap!

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:34 (twenty years ago)

I spent three weeks listening to the Fiery Furnaces EP pretty much daily, and began to really hate it by the end. I'm familiar with it but that’s as far as it goes these days. I think will and time don’t necessarily lead to love, more like a solidifying of opinion.

― dan. (dan.), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:36 (twenty years ago)

humming songs under your breath is not an indication of anything. people hum the matress discounters jingle all the time, doesnt mean they like it.

― AaronK (AaronK), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

If you listened to "any album" exclusively, a musical Stockholm Syndrome can take effect, sure. But if you sprinkled the album in with your favorite stuff, I don't think it would ever take hold.

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:47 (twenty years ago)

Keith's got a good point. There are a lot of records I liked that I now dislike because I was in close proximity to people overplaying them. Admittedly this is a bias I can overcome once I'm not around the person who spoiled me on them, but still.

What about really, really annoing music? Like speed bass?

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 13:52 (twenty years ago)

Hey, everybody loved that "What's up" song, until listen number three...

Not true. At five it annoyed me and it irritates me still.

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Tuesday, 5 April 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

Wait, that's the 4 Non-Blondes song, right?

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Tuesday, 5 April 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

Yeah.

So it took you five hearings?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 15:00 (twenty years ago)

i don't think it's just about playing songs/albums a lot = you tolerate/enjoy/like it.
it's more the idea that if you WANT to tolerate/enjoy/like an album, whatever time it takes, you're gonna succeed.

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)

So it took you five hearings?
Haha! (I'm not sure if you were kidding or not, but just in case...I meant at age five.)

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Tuesday, 5 April 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

I still love "What's Up?"

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

This is such a stupid thread. There is NOTHING I or anybody else can do or say that's going to make me like Goodbye 20th Century.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

I think this statement is approaching truism for people who are attached to music as opposed to genres; the thing is there are maybe seven people in the world like this (and three of them are ILXors, ha ha sigh).

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 19:08 (twenty years ago)

I've been trying this with The Smiths' "The Queen is Dead" for a few weeks. So far, I have to admit that the first song is growing on me. A lot of the album just plain sucks though.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 01:22 (twenty years ago)

it's more the idea that if you WANT to tolerate/enjoy/like an album, whatever time it takes, you're gonna succeed

I guess this is the bottomline.

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 06:42 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but I'm thinking "Why would I ever be in a circumstance where I would want/need to force myself to like something that I have heard, maybe heard again, and decided wasn't that good?"... thus, the desert island scenario.

― scout (scout), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 07:45 (twenty years ago)

"spend a week with Hot Rats"

i have and i still don't like it. i can tolerate it, i can understand why people would like it... but i still hate it.

― nathalie doing a soft foot shuffle (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 07:49 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but I'm thinking "Why would I ever be in a circumstance where I would want/need to force myself to like something that I have heard, maybe heard again, and decided wasn't that good?"

When you've spent money on buying it perhaps? I know that in periods when I've only been able to afford to buy like 4 CDs a month or something and three of those turn out to be shit or maybe mediocre at best, I have tried bloody hard to like them.

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:38 (twenty years ago)

in this case, the "why would I want to" would be because for one reason or another you're curious to understand why it's valued (it's classic, mythical, recommanded by magazines, friends, your grandma, etc.).
so all in all, it's a music geek existential question !

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:10 (twenty years ago)

five months pass...

Stylus persists! ILX's own, Mr. Southall : "Given time and inclination you can make yourself “enjoy” almost anything, perhaps"

― Baaderonixx and the hedonistic gluttons (baaderonixx), Monday, 19 September 2005 11:35 (twenty years ago)

as aesthetic directives go, I rather like this one

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 19 September 2005 12:42 (twenty years ago)

"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason."

-JOhn Cage

― poortheatre (poortheatre), Monday, 19 September 2005 12:59 (twenty years ago)

Nobody made John Cage listen to Hard-Fi though, did they.

― Raw P, Monday, 19 September 2005 13:33 (twenty years ago)

've been trying this with The Smiths' "The Queen is Dead" for a few weeks. So far, I have to admit that the first song is growing on me. A lot of the album just plain sucks though.

-- Hurting (Hurtingchie...), April 5th, 2005.

No change in test subject.

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 19 September 2005 13:39 (twenty years ago)

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"Given the will to do so and the time, anyone is capable of loving any album" - Discuss