Perfectly timed breakups

My vote would go to Sky Cries Mary, but they didn't break up after _This Timeless Turning_. Damn.

Dan, do you really want me to FITE you on your birthday? Because it would end up with you weeping like a big girlie and crying for ICP to come save you.

It's really funny; _Strangeways..._ was my introduction to The Smiths and I liked the album fine when I initially heard it, but when I heard all of their other material, it quickly paled in comparison, almost to the point where I couldn't believe I was listening to the same group. I mean, "Unhappy Birthday" is quite simply an unbearable song unworthy of a group that could turn out gems like "Ask", "Panic", "Sheila Take A Bow", "Shoplifters Of The World Unite", "The Queen Is Dead", "What Difference Does It Make?", "Reel Around The Fountain", "How Soon Is Now?", "This Night Has Opened My Eyes", "Shakespeare's Sister", "Rubber Ring", etc, etc, etc. In all of their previous songs (with the possible exceptions of "You've Got Everything Now" and "Still Ill"), the vocal line and the underlying music merge together into a greater whole. On _Strangeways..._, they FITE like cats and dogs. Fucking "Girlfriend In A Coma" and "Unhappy Birthday" are particularly egregious in that the disparity between the guitar melody and the vocal line set up boatloads of unnecessary tension that detract from the overall song. (It really hurts "Girlfriend...", where the underlying music is extremely pleasant, but the lyrical cadence is so fucking off that, except for isolated moments on the chorus, you want to run screaming for the room solely so you can build a time machine, go back to the studio while Morrissey was recording his vocal line, and punch him in the nuts every time he oh-so-earnestly says, "IT'S SERIOUS!!!!" "Unhappy Birthday" has no redeeming qualities beyond the line "because you're evil and you lie"; the vocal line is vile, the backing music is vile, the word cadence is vile, the whole thing is a bilious vile sandwich.)

"A Rush And A Push..." is a great song, though.

I won't wish you an unhappy birthday if you disagree, though!

But really, I don't actually own Strangeways but it's not that bad, certainly doesn't kill the rep. A slight drop, but every band had those.

That's because you're talking the craziness. :P The only Cure album which comes close to _Strangeways..._ dip in quality is _Wild Mood Swings_, and that only has one song where the vocal line goes completely against the music in a non-complimentary way ("Strange Attraction"). I mean, there are some extraordinarily weak songs on that album ("Mint Car" and "Return" gallop to mind), but the main failing of that album is that there isn't any cohesion or synergy between the songs themselves, not that the songs themselves aren't internally sound compositions. And anyway, they released _Bloodflowers_ right after that, which is IMO one of the best things they've ever done and pretty much hits all the marks that _Wild Mood Swings_ missed.

Perhaps I should listen to _Strangeways..._ again, because it's been something on the order of 10 years since the last time I heard it. I do remember that it reminded me of many of the things I disliked about solo Morrissey (ie, an over-reliance on quirky turns of phrase at the expense of vocal melody that created a painful cognitive dissonance with the backing track).

You could end up with a lot of donuts that way. ;-)

Re: Strangeways -- the one album of theirs I listen to the least [proper albums at least, I listen to Hatful of Hollow less since Louder Than Bombs does the job better]. However, "Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me" validates it alone -- see also Moz's fine take back on the 2000 tour and Low's cover from last year.

Wow, those four years just FLEW by! ;-)

I'll actually go against Dan this time. I love the Cure dearly, but Wild Mood Swings was Cure-by-Numbers, and nowhere near their usual standards. I didn't even think Bloodflowers was anywhere near the return to form that everyone thought it was.

Still, I think this FITE is fun. Carry on!

I don't think you're really going against me here, unless you're saying that _Strangeways..._ is better than _Wild Mood Swings_. _WMS_ was hit-or-miss Cure-pastiche mixed in with a couple of brilliant songs. _SHWC_ was (from what I remember) miss-or- miss Smiths-pastiche mixed in with a couple of brilliant songs. I would say that even though the good songs on _SHWC_ are better than the good songs on _WMS_, the overall quality of _WMS_ is higher because the songs, successful or not, sound like they were written by a group of people working together rather than working against each other.

And if you think _Bloodflowers_ is inferior, you obviously haven't fully embraced the joy of "The Last Day Of Summer" or "The Loudest Sound".

I don't think that working AGAINST each other is necessarily a bad thing, because that tension can actually give something an edge over something that is done by people that all love each other. Look at the White Album, for example: the band couldn't even stand to be in the studio at the same time as each other, but the album is still very good, if not necessarily their best.

Whereas I have no motivation to ever pick up _Strangeways..._ beyond seeing if the impressions I formed of it 14 years ago still hold.

WMS had a total of one that sticks out as worthwhile to me: "Mint Car".

YOU IS TALKING CRAZIES. "Mint Car" is far and away one of the worst songs The Cure has ever done, precisely because it's a painful pastiche of "Friday I'm In Love". The only song on the album which is worse is "Return". On the plus side, you've got beautiful polyrhythmic floatiness in "Jupiter Crash", the focused opening snarl of "Want", the simple drone of "Treasure", and giddy horn abuse in "Gone!"

As for Bloodflowers, I do quite like it, but it's nowhere near Pornography or Disintegration, which is what they were trying to link it with.

_Bloodflowers_ is a lot more reflective and restrained than either _Disintegration_ or _Pornography_. It's really more like _Faith_.

It's probably telling that I actually like Wish more.

Why? What's wrong with _Wish_? That's an excellent album.

I don't think that working AGAINST each other is necessarily a bad thing, [...]

I agree. Often times strong statements can be made by inserting something which cuts across what the listener expects. In the case of _Strangeways, Here We Come_, it just doesn't work.

gareth - if you're serious about the Slowdive suggestion, that means you rate their third album? (innocent question - I've not heard it, but it bombed IIRC)

Oh, I know - Young Marble Giants!

Why? What's wrong with _Wish_? That's an excellent album.
Nothing at all. Apart from "Wendy Time", I think it's actually one of their better ones, but almost everyone else I know thinks it's weak. Personally, I don't see how any album with a song like "From The Edge of the Deep Green Sea" could be considered weak, but sometimes I can be unreasonable.

I'm willing to can the Cure talk now, too, in the interests of other discussion.

I'm surprised at lots of people saying things like this -- Strangeways, as I saw it, was a pretty novel progression, in terms of switching to these jaunty, atmospheric, more baroque barrelhouse numbers ... in some senses the band finally fully gave in to Marr + Rourke's weird jerky funk, that signature rhythm scattered all over this record ("A Rush and a Push...," "Death at One's Elbow," "Girlfriend in a Coma," etc). It's very different from the other records ...

And Slowdive are a great suggestion, as their career neatly bridged the shoegazer and dreampop axes to the "Lost Generation" or pre-post- rock (Souvlaki), and that was enough.

Nonsense. *descends into four hour disquisition* However, Dan *is* right -- "Mint Car" is crapulous. Hang your head in shame, you hoser. ;-)

town called malice is useless and start is hardly up among their masterpieces

anyway point is, with singles bands this "perfect timing" must be more exactly calibrated

(don't think i haf evah been so RESTRAINED and REASONABLE when discussing the jam)

A recent band that split at the right time were At The Drive In. Superb album, but I couldn't see how they would top it. Also amazingly a recently NME hyped band that were actually good.

A band that SHOULD have broke up was The Prodigy. Immediatly after Firestarter, and before the woeful album The Fat Of The Land.

Apparently my birthday is the day I get all contrary with people. "Woeful" is not a word I would use to describe _The Fat Of The Land_. "Punishing", "energetic", "tons better than 'Firestarter' led me to hope", and "boogielicious" all come to mind. I would agree that it's not as good an album as the previous two - well, actually I wouldn't agree to that. I would say that it mines different territory. In fact, the arguments people are using to defend _Strangeways..._ are much more applicable here, I think, only The Prodigy hasn't broken up.

I would have loved to hear another record out of them, actually.

Along the same lines: the Left Banke.

Ned: All I meant was calling it Mojave 3 Pygmalion > no Pygmalion.

*clarity dawns over enfeebled brain*

Would it help if I said I, too, am now a Surface of Eceon fan?,/I>

Hurrah!

Syd Barrett.

The Pixies?