taking sides: early Kraftwerk vs late Kraftwerk

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Early as defined by the more free-form experimental krautrock stuff - Kraftwerk 1 & 2, Ralf & Florian, the second half of Autobahn. Late Kraftwerk = Trans Europe Express and everything after. With Radio Activity as a sort of transitional work.

Am I the only one who loves the early Kraftwerk, but can take or leave the later stuff?

― Mohammad Khatani, Friday, 8 April 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

You are not the only one. This is in fact the "hip" argument to make. It's bullshit though. I love early Kraftwerk, but they only got better as time went on.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

you don't like computer world? I think that album is in my all time
top 3.

― wordyrappington (wordyrappington), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

Yeah I like Computer World, but I prefer their earlier more experimental, pastoral stuff. By Computer World, they'd sort of painted themselves into a corner.

― Mohammad Khatani, Friday, 8 April 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

Later.

"Trans-europe express", "man machine" and "computer world" are easily the best 3 albums they did.

― Jimmy Mcnulty, Friday, 8 April 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

It wasn't a corner, it was a whole world! The world of COMPUTERS!!!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

Love Ralf and Florian. Think I'd have to go for that.

Slightly off-topic, but today I'm impressed by the blandness of Kraftwerk songs. Calculators, motor-ways, Tour-de-fucking-france. How could any band get away with writing about such boooring subjects and achieve such universal acclaim?

Their most sexy song : "The Model" is about as wimpy as it's possible to get!!! OTOH, can would a passionate Kraftwerk or a politically engaged one, work? Any theories or opinions on the importance of blandness in the genius of Kraftwerk?

― phil jones (interstar), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

It's a very pleasing aesthetic: We are very ordinary. We get up and go to work every day. At night, we go to the clubs.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:15 (twenty years ago)

Not that this sums it up entirely, but I think this is part of it.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

I think they only started to paint themselves in a corner by Electric Cafe... and even that is a fine album. It's just that their influencees had taken what they got from Kraftwerk and surged forth, while Electric Cafe was the first sheer sign that the band was kinda hovering in the same territory as they were five years before (same argument almost could be said about the "Tour De France" single from 1983, although that beat pretty much gave birth to modern U.S. electro booty bass), so it's easy to write off that album for that reason, though "The Telephone Call" may still be one of Kraftwerk's best songs ever.

I'm not going to defend The Mix however.

As for early vs. old.. they were really two different bands at that point, literally. It's a hard call, but I honestly listen to the late 70s/early 80s stuff more than the early 70s albums, even though i think Kraftwerk, Kraftwerk 2, and Ralf Und Florian are brilliant.

― donut debonair (donut), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

Any theories or opinions on the importance of blandness in the genius of Kraftwerk?

It's kind of the whole point isn't it?

I have to vote for late Kraftwerk with Computer World being the peak. Kraftwerk 1 and Tone Float are pretty close behind though.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:19 (twenty years ago)

It's all grand. GIVE TO ME. And since all eras of the band were about beat and ambience in equal quantities, it's more like how that was applied in differing contexts.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

The early, early stuff is kinda pointless because they're playing a game other bands were better at. Autobahn is my favorite by far-- especially when they shift from a beautiful melody to a dischordant ANGRY tone. Much later I think they stalled.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

Blandness is definitely part of the genius. But it's a rather complicated blandness that you can't tell whether it's ironic or not - and perhaps they can't tell either. They're sort of German Andy Warhols.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

I'm not going to defend The Mix however.

I'll give it a halfhearted defense. Although I sold it years ago I seem to remember the remixes actually being pretty good. And it was the only Kraftwerk CD apart from Computer World that I could find when I first discovered Kraftwerk in high school around 92/93. So it served somewhat of a purpose without being merely a greatest hits compilation.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

Certainly prefer later Kraftwerk, meaning late 70s.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 8 April 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

When I start naming favorites I end up naming them all (up till 83 anyways)

Kraftwerk 1, Kraftwerk 2, Ralf & Florian: Classic Or Dud?

― milton parker (Jon L), Friday, 8 April 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

Late Kraftwerk is better, but Ralf And Florian remains far and away my most-played Kraftwerk album, even if only because of Ananas Symphonie, which is reet fookin' tasty - the loveliest and best thing I ever heard them do, and 14 minutes of it!

― Deluxe (Damian), Saturday, 9 April 2005 11:19 (twenty years ago)

funny this should come up. when i was a kid (late eighties, early nineties), i all but wore out my copies of autobahn, radio-activity, TEE and computer world. i loved them. adored them. radio-activity in particular: i used to sit and listen to it on headphones on repeat for hours. i still have a deep and abiding love for all those albums.

the man-machine i can take or leave, to be frank. electric cafe i don't own. i've borrowed it twice from friends and never even bothered to make a copy. i do like the two "songs" - sex object and the telephone call - but the rest of it bores me senseless.

what i always loved about kraftwerk was their stately elegance; the sense of pained beauty their best songs have. and i even hear that beauty in the tape-and-radio experiments of radio-activity (don't ask me how; i just do) or the whispering frenzy of numbers (is that right? the one on computer world with all the, er, whispering, anyway).

and until i downloaded tanzmusik from 20 jazz funk greats the other week, i'd never heard a single note of early 'werk. i was aware it existed, of course, but never bothered with it. yet tanzmusik blew me away. seriously: it's incredible; much as i love the four albums i mentioned above, i'm not sure anything on them has touched my soul quite as much as that one song.

and i'm now phenomenally excited by the fact i've got these early albums to explore and discover ... as soon as i can lay my hands on them, right enough.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Saturday, 9 April 2005 11:44 (twenty years ago)

I think Mohammad's got a point. They started very free and gradually became very tightly controlled. I like Trans Europe and (especially) the Man: Machine as a very agreeable midpoint between free play and tightness. After that, things do get increasingly perfect. Computer World is a perfect album - and I've always said a band that makes a perfect album has no further room to move, and Kraftwerk are, to me, a pretty good example of that argument.

― moley, Saturday, 9 April 2005 12:41 (twenty years ago)

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