king crimson: request for information

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

i've only got the debut album but i have a few questions that some people on here may be able to answer for me. hopefully :)

was this album seemingly more appreciated by musicians or the public? i know it did pretty well sales wise when it first came out, but did their subsequent albums do anything? all i know of them is as a almost a footnote in the history of rock.

and what do their other albums sound like in relation to this, what might my next purchase be by them be if i liked this album and wanted more of it. and what would my next purchase be by them if i wanted more of certain elements as opposed to others?

thanks in advance for the help!

― todd burns, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

let's say, for the sake of knowing, that i've read everything that allmusic has said about them, as well.

― todd burns, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What track do you like best?

If Epitath or Wind, try Poseidon (see also VDGG (quiet ones), early Yes, ELP 1st album)

If MoonChild, try Islands (see also 70s prog folkies like Tull)

If 21st Century try Red (see also VDGG (noisy ones), Hawkwind)

― Alexander Blair, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My first concert was King Crimson on the "Discipline" tour yay!

― Sean, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

IMO, ItCothCK is one of those albums that almost all prog fans will say is an undisputed classic, and which probably isn't even in the band's top 5 best albums. In fact, I hate it. There, I said it.

As far as how it related to the other albums, it really doesn't, except that In the Wake of Poseidon sounds similar (though not *quite* as overbearingly "serious"). The problem (or good thing) about KC was that they tended to change their sound drastically from time to time. There is an obvious link between "21st Century Schizoid Man" and the mid-70s version of the band, with Bruford and Wetton, but that's the only one that stands out to me. Of course, Fripp has always been the same serious guy!

I don't know, you'll probably get a varied reponse to this question depending on what kind of prog fan you talk to. As I'm *way* more into the avant end of the spectrum, I definitely prefer stuff they did from '72 onwards.

― dleone, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I wasn't listening to music at the time of it's initial release (except on my little crystal set) and started listening around the time Wetton joined them. But my impression is that it's release was treated as 'the way music will sound forever more' or something like that. I can't stand any of the first 4 albums much at all. The lyrics are the worst thing, probably. They've given prog a bad name forever...

― philT, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm not yr typical Crimso fan, really...I hadn't heard them at all until Discipline came out, and then going back I couldn't figure out the ponderous 70s stuff could be the same band (I was in my teens at the time, though). I've learned to appreciate more of the earlier stuff, but I still don't like any of it enough to own it, apart from Red, which I think is utterly classic, because it dispenses with the novelty-like lyrics altogether (before that there was at least one song like "Cat Food" on each album, which just made me shake my head).

The weird thing is that I can forgive Belew his novelty-like lyrics on Discipline ("Elephant Talk" anyone?) because they fit the music better I think. I like the 80s trilogy best, because it's a perfect mix of technology, chops and restraint, but I think the trilogy gets worse as it goes. I kind of like Vrooom and Thrak, but I didn't like em enough to keep 'em. ConstruKction of Light I just found stupid in places and uninspired in others. Oh well.

― Sean Carruthers, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm partial to the David Cross years (which true fans seem to despise for some reason) - Starless & Bible Black and Lark's Tongue in Aspic.

― Dave225, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

UGH.. I hate the 80's trilogy. I think fripp really lost his magic then. My favortie period is the 73 Starless band. They were so fucking hard and funky. Then they got quiet like a whisper. Awesome stuff.

― chaki, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Looking over the reviews of the album at the time, I think it's fair to conclude that it was greeted with substantial acclaim both critically and popularly in its day. Pete Townsend called it "an uncanny masterpiece" (or some such), and many fans still uphold it as "the first legitimate progressive rock album".

However, a strong contingent of prog rock fans don't buy the hype (or, more accurately, maybe understand the hype, but still don't think it's this earth-shatteringly brilliant LP). "21st Century..." is pretty much the only track from that album that might be listened to. As for the rest...well, pleasant stuff on first listens, but over the years you realize that: a) the music is fairly drawn-out and repetitive and b) the lyrics are pretty awful. I still prefer it to "Wake of Poseidon" (the next album, which follows the formula of the first, putting it politely), though.

Their best albums (IMO) are: Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Starless and Bible Black, Red, and Discipline, with maybe Lizard thrown in to boot.

― Joe, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Larks Toungues, Starless, and (especially) Red are my faves.

― Sean, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

what was the initial reaction to this album? were people, "hey this stuff has been done before. it's pretty good but it's not groundbreaking." or were they "oh my god this is new and exciting and now we have to run off and make another band that sounds similar to it, this is a totally new genre waiting to happen!"
Thee old music/underground magazines I have/had (zigzag/Oz etc) seemed sniffy about it, based on a/they were hyped pretty strongly and b/they were regarded as a rip of thee moody blues (prob due to mellotron phrenzy) legendarily (sp?) one of their gigs was wrecked by mick farren & the pink fairies for whatever reason ("the man", "Sellout" etc most likely, the whole story quite possibly apocryphal)
was this album seemingly more appreciated by musicians or the public? i know it did pretty well sales wise when it first came out, but did their subsequent albums do anything? all i know of them is as a almost a footnote in the history of rock.
Crimson were ALWAYS a musician's band above all - when I first got into playing (early '80's) fripp, wetton & bruford were THEE heroes of all players w/weird tastes. "In The Court of the Crimson King" is certainly a footnote, but this only due to the continuing beaten-down status ov prog rock. (not here, but certainly just abt everywhere else) Nevertheless it is VERY influential, in it's way - like Hawkwind, you will never count all of the bands who knocked off their sound.
and what do their other albums sound like in relation to this, what might my next purchase be by them be if i liked this album and wanted more of it. and what would my next purchase be by them if i wanted more of certain elements as opposed to others? "In The Wake of Poseidon" is a less good remake of it, "Circus" is one of the weirdest albums I've ever owned, "Islands" is utter crap, "Larks Tongues in Aspic", "Starless & Bible Black" and "Red" are completely different sounding records - Robert Fripp guitarist is thee only thing in common w/thee earlier rekkids. IMO these last 3 are some of the most far-out-motherfux0r stuff ever recorded by gt/bass/drums & are essential. After that....Pffff, the '80's line up was good live, but the albums just have this horrible "dry" sound which I don't like, '90's version? Pick up a copy of "Vroom" if U see it cheap, and see what U think. To all those who said the lyricks sux0r - U R Korreckt!!!!
― Norman Phay, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

jeah!!! There's nothing like HTML tags skillfully applied, and that was nothing like etc etc etc
― Norman Phay, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Todd, if you can find open copies of the new reissues of the early albums, check out the booklets...they have reviews and reaction to the band at that point, both live and on record. Fripp has this perverse habit of showing off the negative reviews, which can be very illuminating, usu. for what they don't say.
― Sean Carruthers, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Norman has a great cache of ancient mags: I only haf my memory — I think they picked uop a fair following, fairly fast, in a great turnaround year (1968). Prog generally went clear that year: in late 67, pink floyd and the soft machine could still play the ICA; by 68 this was impossible for both groups (their audiences were too massive). KC were the first group to arrive in the SECOND SITUATION, when prog (as it wasn't yet called) was beginning to be thought of as a BIG thing, rather than an UNDERGROUND thing. I think they probably lost out on "radical" cachet, but gained on "of-the- people" cachet (both these cachets were swirling round each other in 1968, sometimes getting confused one for the other...)
(It's interesting that of all the prog groups KC were the only ones to evolve generally * towards* free improv, instead of away from it.) (Prog and free improv are intimately linked, of course: they share some of the same ideals and some of the same faults. Each was impossible w/o the other.)
― mark s, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hey, Mr. Phay, how many open italics tags did you use, anyhow?
― Sean Carruthers, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

it's like the little man with the broom after the lord mayor's horse parade went by
― mark s, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hey, Mr. Phay, how many open italics tags did you use, anyhow?
Clearly, several more than I closed :-/
Since I started int3rw3bbing from home, I am sitting @ my computer in a less than ideal position, If I look @ the monitor, placed on high (head position like lemmy singing) I can't see thee keyboard, If I watch the keys, I can't see the monitor. I will fix it in time, but this entails electrick drill, screws & rawlplugs, so phuck that for now....
― Norman Phay, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I can find something to like in all their albums, but if I had to actually listen to a whole King Crimson album right now it would be either Red or Thrak.
Red=grate, dark, not cheesy.
I've always enjoyed Thrak quite a bit...it combined the good things about the 70s and 80s bands with what just seemed like a cool overall sensibility at the time. That, and there is some killer rhythm section stuff happening on that album.
― Jordan, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I love King Crimson because of the people whose reading of my home county's history is shown up for the bullshit it is by their very existence. And I have never heard a single one of their records.
― Robin Carmody, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"because of the people" = "because they piss off the people"
― Robin Carmody, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh please be less cryptic Robin.
― Josh, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Me being less cryptic = Mark S being less evazev, an impossiblity
― Robin Carmody, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the eric tamms book on fripp is good but i've heard little KC besides that radiohead song that ripped em off + 21stCSM
― , Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

One of the Giles boys (Peter?) is on record as saying that "Cat Food" would have stood a chance of being a hit if "that fucking piano hadn't ruined it."
Re: KC evolution from prog-to-improv: surely only because of the involvement of Keith Tippett and his mates, rather than from within the band organically (see subsequent careers of G Lake and I McDonald for proof?).
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, if KC = whatever Fripp decides it is, and Fripp made the call to Tippett and Jamie Muir etc, at the expense of Lake/MacDonald? Plus is Fripp a free improv player himself? And if *not* what makes him not?
I'm not didactic abt this btw: I'm not really a Fripp fan (and I think that Tamm book is TERRIBLE!!!) ! But I do think KC evolved in a non-standard direction. Taking sides: Small Mobile Units vs Dinosaurs!!
― mark s, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thee most improv orientated lineup ov Crimson was the Bruf0rd/Wetton/Cross/Fripp/(+mad bloke w/junkyard percussion who's name eludes me @ present) one. IE later than w/tippet, er for what that's worth
― Norman Phay, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

perc bloke = jamie muir
― mark s, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Jamie Muir, he of the 'left KC to become a Buddhist monk, only to return to the music world duetting with Derek Bailey, and then selling all his gear to become a painter' fame.
― dleone, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three years pass...
OK, WTF is going on with the Crimson catalog? All of the online retailers seem to have been backordered since last fall for just about every CD. Is there (another) reissue happening, or what? I am looking for Starless and Bible Black, Red, Lizard, Islands, Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair in particular. I was able to pick up USA at a local shop yesterday but that was the only thing they had besides In the Court of the Crimson King and (ironically) Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With. I'd rather not fuck with Ebay/imports if everything is gonna be back in print soon, so?
― Anyone Who Can Pick Up A Frying Pan Pwns Death (AaronHz), Sunday, 27 February 2005 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know, you can find all of them through disciplineglobalmobile.com; I think they ARE being repressed but they aren't being remastered again, EXCEPT for In the Court and (maybe) In the Wake. They found the original masters for these, finally. Not that the last pressings didn't already sound excellent.
― kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

No, DGM is sold out of all that stuff except for expensive Japanese imports of SABB, TOAPP and Beat.
― Anyone Who Can Pick Up A Frying Pan Pwns Death (AaronHz), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.king-crimson.com/graphics/kchands3.jpg
― Anyone Who Can Pick Up A Frying Pan Pwns Death (AaronHz), Sunday, 27 February 2005 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

hey ladies!
― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 27 February 2005 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

get progg-AY *frippertronicized cowbell*
― jrwgj34, Sunday, 27 February 2005 21:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Belew kinda looks like maybe he wanted to do the Spock thing, but thought Fripp might get annoyed with him and decided against it.
Also, if Fripp was an actor he probably would have made a better Hannibal Lecter than Cox or Hopkins did.
― Anyone Who Can Pick Up A Frying Pan Pwns Death (AaronHz), Sunday, 27 February 2005 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...
Anyone heard that 21st Century box set?
― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

no, but it looks sexy. i think i caressed it at the record store.
― blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I think critical reaction was very positive, audience reaction in the UK was very strong. Then they went to the US, where the album was starting to get play, and got strong audience reaction. Then McDonald and Giles left and all the steam went out of the publicity machine.
Bottom line they broke up into fragments before the world had much of a chance to absorb or appreciate the album or the band. I think their subsequent history is quite substantial and courageous though.
― Scott McFarland (Scott McFarland), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

All right I got the new box and am enjoying it. (Predictable) favorite stuff: the first album, the live stuff. It's got 4 versions of "21st Century Schizoid Man" - one studio, three live. It's like the "Sister Ray" of King Crimson, I guess.
― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 17:08 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...
just to add to the audience reaction ques for historial purposes:
when i was talking to my pops about kc he said "i remember them. the record with the big scary face. everyone had that."
― chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 07:57 (nineteen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.