RFI John Cage

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So I have listened to the John Cage CD I got from the library, ie Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano. I *wuv* it. No, I LOVE it. Where do I start with Cage? Any books on him that I need to read? Any related musicians I need to check out as well?

helenfordsdale, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Neue Minimalism Answerz

helenfordsdale, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The Sonatas & Interludes are great. I love a lot of the ECM disc The Seasons. It contains one of his late number pieces "The Seasons," which is an orchestral piece containing overlapping shimmery gagaku-like sonorities. "The Seasons" is another really nice orchestral piece, more conventional in some ways. "Concerto for Prepared Piano and Chamber Orchestra" is also included, and is also great.

I also really like one of the dances for prepared piano. You might like the Third Construction for Percussion, which is more rhythmic and uses a lot of metal objects. I have HPSCHD, which is good, but I don't play it that much. It's nothing like the Sonatas and Interludes though. It's like layered tape fragments of Mozart with electronic noise. Was the "Fontana Mix" the one where he used quotes from Joyce with sounds of Dublin city life and Celtic music samples? That was a good piece.

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

HPSCHDThe Joyce one you're thinking about is Roaratorio: An Irish Circus on Finnegans Wake, out on Ars Acustica. HPSCHD is real good, too, but as far as I know was only available on a long out-of-print Nonesuch rekkid.

His electronic music is by and large wow, but I could never get into Cage's pieces with "real" instruments, like the prepared piano works. Sure, it reeks of Indonesia and it's a good thing too, but once the shock of recognition faded away it seemed kinda dreary.

Michael Daddino, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like some of Cage's prepared piano music, and some other pieces. There is something amazing of his, with lots of (uncharacteristically) rhythmic metalic sounding percussion, I used to hear as part of a sound collage played at the end of a radio program I used to listen to regularly. I wish I knew what that was.

I think in a way you are better off not knowing too much about his musical theories. I understand your being curious and wanting to read about him, of course, but I find his idea of trying to transcend ego by going beyond aesthetic like and dislike, and his dismissal of the intentional expression of emotion in music, and some of his disparaging comments on other forms of music (like jazz) a big turn-off. I feel that I am not "permitted" to listen to his music the way I would any other music. Still, if you are going to read something by him, "Silence" is probably a good place to start; and his essay on the future of music in "Empty Words" is kind of interesting. (This essay would be a good source for names of "related musicians.") I think (and this could maybe be filed under "say something boring about John Cage") that historically, he opened things up for a lot of composers trained in the academic classical tradition, even though they may have rejected much of his philosophy. Compared to the iron grip of serialism, his approach was a breath of fresh air.

DeRayMi, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Way out of print but way worth seeking out: the Obscure Records LP that's a Cage/Jan Steele split. The Cage side has Robert Wyatt singing Cage's settings of e e cummings and James Joyce, plus a nice version of "In A Landscape" and a piece sung by Carla Bley.

Douglas, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

yeah read silence, and if you can find it CONVERSING WITH CAGE compiled richard kostelenatz

the function of serialism was to produce the same kind of "unmelodified" listening as cage's randomism: what he realised was that the technical intricacy that went into serialist composition was diverting all the attention to stuff you couldn't hear (and weren't meant to be listening to) and that knowledge of randomism produced the effect much more cleanly

his line on absolutely blank-slate listening is a bit daft as an ideal, since it's only obtainable by zen masters who prolly don't download mp3s

he was the first "classical" composer to recognise the degree to which recording and tape edit had demoted stave composition and paper-based analysis (actually you can sort of make a case for webern as his precursor here)

mark s, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I once saw David Tudor peform some John Cage music. I found it quite gripping, suspenseful, actually. A slinky had been attached to a microphone, and at one point David Tudor sent it whizzing around the mic. I didn't see it coming and nearly jumped out of my seat. I thought it was all very enjoyable. The piece seemed to be a series of very discrete actions, so at some point Tudor might walk around to the back of the piano and pluck a string, then return to the keyboard and play a chord, etc.

DeRayMi, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like reading him more than listening to him, though the "Sonatas" I've heard I like, and the first "Imaginary Landscape" and "Suite For Toy Piano" are very pretty.

Silence is a great, entertaining book, as is the Conversations With… mark s mentioned above. If you like some of the vignettes in Silence, Cage reads many of them on the Interdeterminacy record, with noise/musical accompaniment by David Tudor.

Also worthwhile is Cage e(x)plained by Richard Kostelenatz, which has some good introductory essays on Cage's work & ideas. He didn't own a record player or radio of any kind, which I found interesting (he liked to listen to the street.) And there's a fun book called New Voices that compiles interviews from various contemporary classical composers (Reich, Glass, Adams, L. Anderson, Lucier, many more) and uses Cage as a jumping-off point for each conversation.

Finally, if Merce Cunningham's dance company comes through your town, check it out. He usually does a repertory piece with music by Cage, and hearing one of those pieces loud is incredible (when I saw him, Jim O'Rourke was part of the pit orchestra, tweaking oscillators and whatnot!)

Mark, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Some Cage records worth hearing:

John Cage/Christian Wolff, s/t (Time, 58009) LP - the Cage piece is Cartridge Music, very noisy and intense.
John Cage with David Tudor, Variations IV (Everest, 3132) LP - there's a 2nd volume of this I haven't heard, but if it's as good as this one...
John Cage, Fontana Mix; Luciano Berio, Visage; Ilhan Mimaroglu, Agony (Turnabout, TV4046) LP
John Cage, Music for Marcel Duchamp (1947), Music for Amplified Toy Pianos (1960), Radio Music (1956), 4’33” (intreparti: 30”/2’23”/1’40”) (1952), Sixty-Two Mesostics Re Merce Cunningham (frammenti) (1971) (Cramps, CRSLP 6101) LP - this was recently re-issued, shouldn't be too tough to find.

I recently saw a good documentary on PBS about Merce Cunningham that had a lot of great Cage archival footage. Definitely worth seeing, maybe there's some information on their web site, I dunno.

O'Rourke doesn't play with Merce's dance troupe any more. The musical director for the past few years (who asked Jim to play) is Takehisa Kosugi, an interesting musician/composer in his own right.

hstencil, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

four years pass...
Grab an excellent perf of "Cartridge music" over at Ab. Ed. wandelweiser is, for the most part, an excellent label; love the version of 'exercise 15' they put out ages ago, and of course they carry out the task of putting out all the er post-new york school blah. Which goes into ans (very late I know) the 'related musicians' part of the question.

Cage I listen to most these days, besides his electronic stuff, is Grete Sultan performing his "Etude Australes".

xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Saturday, 23 September 2006 18:30 (nineteen years ago)


this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/JOHN-CAGE-25-Year-Retrospective-Concert-of-LP-box_W0QQitemZ320030952136QQihZ011QQcategoryZ306QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

will go for $200-$250 easy. great cuts too. seek it out on the finer slsking progs out there.

mr. brojangles (sanskrit), Saturday, 23 September 2006 22:08 (nineteen years ago)

I think the best works are the "number-pieces" from the late 80's-early 90's. My favorite is Four4 for percussion, specifically the Hungaroton recording of the Amadinda percussion group.

daniel siedler (twoheadedboy), Saturday, 23 September 2006 22:22 (nineteen years ago)

six months pass...
26'1.1499" for a string player is another good 'un - all the picking and bowing and vocalizations make me dizzy.

This piece for [Removed Illegal Link], anyone? Premiere recording.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 9 April 2007 13:15 (eighteen years ago)

20 muti-tracked harps

xyzzzz__, Monday, 9 April 2007 13:16 (eighteen years ago)

El has reissued the first recording of this, which has yet to be beat

JOHN CAGE - Sonatas And Interludes For Prepared Piano - Maro Ajemian Piano
EL RECORDS

http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=23761

Milton Parker, Monday, 9 April 2007 18:18 (eighteen years ago)

someone should review it or something

Milton Parker, Monday, 9 April 2007 18:19 (eighteen years ago)

i got a beat up dial pressing of those ajemian recordings the other day. still sounds pretty good--DEEP GROOVE.

ian, Monday, 9 April 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

Smithsonian/Folkways or whoever it was missed the chance of a lifetime and screwed up BIG TIME with their compact disc reissue of Indeterminacy by not dividing it up into 90 separate minute-long tracks the way it SHOULD've been, choosing instead to issue it as 4 lo-o-o-ng tracks on 2 CDs to correspond to the original 4 sides of vinyl. I mean, don't they think Cage would've approved of/encouraged the use of a CD/iPod "shuffle play" option had the technology been available in 1959? Would've GUARANTEED a different listening experience each time out, not even counting the extra-musical factors.

Soon's I get the software, I'm burning myself a proper version.

Myonga Vön Bontee, Monday, 9 April 2007 21:26 (eighteen years ago)

five years pass...

He was born one hundred years ago today.

Korn can’t wait to see the Taj Mahal (crüt), Wednesday, 5 September 2012 04:22 (thirteen years ago)

Love him.

Sandy Denny Real Estate (jaymc), Wednesday, 5 September 2012 05:45 (thirteen years ago)


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