Who is the black boy in the sex pistols grundy interview?

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In the bill grundy interview, the swastika girl is siouxie from siouxie and the banshees
but who is the black boy next to her?

― grundymania, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

It's a girl.... her name escapes me for now.... I saw her at Ari Up's gig at Camden Underworld last year and she hadn't changes at all....

Debbie?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

"black boy"

― god i hate british people, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

OTM. Jesus.

― Fa Fa fa FA, Fa fa Fa fa FA Fa (poop), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

ye gods

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

http://www.sexpistols.org/zboard/data/interview/interview_billgrundy.jpg

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

nice work on the pic, jazzbo! been trying all day...

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:26 (twenty years ago)

The gent standing on the far left is Steve Severin, future Banshees bass player.

I know I'm asking for trouble here, but why the incredulity at Grundymania's question? The individual in question, from appearances, certainly could have been a boy and is most certainly black. What would you have preferred? African-Anglo Person? Is "black boy" honestly an offensive term?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

Mocha girl. *opts to die*

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

I'm presuming the incredulity comes from the patronising nature of the phrase 'black *boy*'. "Who's the black guy in the SPs interview?" wouldn't have provoked any such incredulity.

Or am I wrong?

― baboon, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

kinda looks like ninah cheery

― chris andrews (fraew), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

alex there's an episode of wkrp you need to watch if you're really not familiar with 'boy' used as a racial slur.

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:44 (twenty years ago)

bjork did a song about that episode called 'venus as a boy'.

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

What's wkrp anyway?

― baboon, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

oh, I need to watch it, do I, Mr.Patronizing? Listen, I'm well aware that "boy" can be used as an ethnic slur/pejorative, but it's PRIMARY defintion connotes a YOUNG MALE. Look at that picture again....would you call that individual a MAN (presuming you saw the person as male)?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:51 (twenty years ago)

um, i wouldn't lightly toss off bigoted speach a la 'young master carlson' and then try to back out of it by saying i'm a poor judge of age and gender and my eyesights bad and besides it's just a bit of fun innit no.

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:01 (twenty years ago)

Black boys are delicious
Chocolate flavored love
Licorice lips like candy
I keep my cocoa handy
I have such a sweet tooth
When it comes to love

Once I tried a diet
Of quiet rest no sweets
But I went nearly crazy
And I went clearly crazy
Because I really craved for
Chocolate flavored treats

Black boys are nutritious
Black boys fill me up
Black boys are so dandy yummy
Always satisfy my tummy
I have such a sweet tooth
When it comes to love

Black black black black
Black black black black
Black boys!

White boys are so pretty
Skin as smooth as milk
White boys are so pretty
They're like Chinese silk

I tell you that the white boys give me goosebumps
White boys give me the chills
And when they touch my shoulder
That's the touch that kills

Well my mama calls them ninnies
But I call them picadillies
My daddy told me stay away
But I said come on out and let's play

White boys are so groovy
White boys are so tough
And every time that they're near me
I just can't get enough

White boys are so pretty
White boys are so sweet
White boys drive me crazy
Drive me in the street

White boys are so sexy
Legs so long and lean
I love those frayed old trousers
Love the love machine

My brother called them trouble
That's my kind of trouble
My daddy told me no no no no
But I said white boys, don't go

White boys are so lovely
Beautiful as girls
I love to run my fingers
And touch through all them curls

Give me a soft, a sweet, a sexy, a sweet
A pretty, a juicy white boy
Black boy! White boy!
Black boy! White boy!
Mix me up

― ourwulliewallpaper, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)

oh, how i love the american white boy crusade for racial justice

― just saying, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:21 (twenty years ago)

Grundymania saw a boy (though actually a female) who was also black who he didn't recognize. Thus he asks "who is the black boy?" Get over it. While I'm aware that 'boy' can and has been used as hate speech (it dates back way before `70's sit-coms like `KRP, by the way), I don't think that was the case here. But, maybe I'm wrong.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:23 (twenty years ago)

But nobody objects to calling Siouxie a girl? xpost

― Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:25 (twenty years ago)

sorry to offend, but am genuinely curious as to her identity.
but please, also to continue discuss race/gender politics,
appropriations of symbols, fashions -- purpose to break
dominant paradigms or purely aesthetic?
i.e., what is significance of swastika girl/black boy dichotomy?
wherein swastika informs identity of girl (siouxie)
and boy (as gender transgression, not as antebellum master-slave
derrogative) informs black (unidentified) and dynamic of
swastika/black juxtoposition, forming semiotic pyramid?

― grundymania, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)

"Boys, boys, all type of boys/Black, white, Puerto Rican, Chinese boys."

― merritt ranew (merritt), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:32 (twenty years ago)

I thought this was going to be a thread by ron atkinson.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:33 (twenty years ago)

lil arthur carlson wasn't a girl! he was a fascist though. johnny had him pegged from the get go.

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:37 (twenty years ago)

ourwulliewallpaper, thank you for reminding me that song existed.

― modernaire, I wanna be, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:41 (twenty years ago)

a) it is patronizing b) everyone please shut the fuck up, I have to get ready to mee the other three black rock chicks in the world...ever. that is all

― Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:27 (twenty years ago)

http://www.humanities-interactive.org/literature/bonfire/400/013d.jpg

"these puerto rican girls are just dyin' to meet you"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:36 (twenty years ago)

I think her name is Simone Thomas.

― Love at the Pier (Arthur), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:53 (twenty years ago)

Interesting how no-one's called out mr "god i hate british people".
The next poster even agreed w/ him.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:00 (twenty years ago)

I saw In the Heat of the Night last night.
Christ white americans suck.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:04 (twenty years ago)

are you momus?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:05 (twenty years ago)

on a good day.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:07 (twenty years ago)

you didn't have to use your ak?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:09 (twenty years ago)

It's funny that the conflict here is about the use of the word "boy", as opposed to the use of the word "black".

― lil Bobby Hutton (Bobby Peru), Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:10 (twenty years ago)

bobby seale ain't little.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:12 (twenty years ago)

One of Australia's longest running indigenous rock bands, Coloured Stone, have a song called 'Black Boy'. Did they know they were offending our white American friends?

― moley, Thursday, 14 April 2005 07:22 (twenty years ago)

Well, I thought she was a girl.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:27 (twenty years ago)

It is also disingenuous to object to the use of the word "boy" when certain prominent female ILXors use it routinely on these boards.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:29 (twenty years ago)

If the original poster had used the word "guy" rather than boy you can bet the US boys(save Alex) would have no problem with it cos its..y'know, US-centric.

― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:15 (twenty years ago)

Interesting how no-one's called out mr "god i hate british people".
The next poster even agreed w/ him.
-- Masked Gazza (m...), April 14th, 2005.

Indeed. I wonder if I could get away with my sig being god I hate black people. Let's try...

― god I hate people who are so desperate to prove a point, Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:41 (twenty years ago)

Close enough

― harveyw (harveyw), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:42 (twenty years ago)

kinda looks like ninah cheery

ninah cheery? do you mean neneh cherry? she really doesn't look anything like her. but then i did obsess over neneh and would stare for days on end at the raw like sushi cover. :-)

― nathalie doing a soft foot shuffle (stevie nixed), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:47 (twenty years ago)

What's amazing about that picture is that Siouxsie then looks like Michael Parkinson now.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:51 (twenty years ago)

if i squint my eyes she actually looks like spike. god, i do need to kick that buffy addiction....

― nathalie doing a soft foot shuffle (stevie nixed), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

It's a gogeous photo, isn't it. Six cheeky faces, all in a row.

― moley, Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:59 (twenty years ago)

One said fuck and over we go!

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:02 (twenty years ago)

"I think her name is Simone Thomas."

That's definitely not Simone Thomas.

I still think her name's Debbie. Not to be confused with Debbie Juvenile, who was one of the Bromley Contingent with Suzy (sic) and Spunker (as Severin was known in those days).

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:06 (twenty years ago)

"Interesting how no-one's called out mr "god i hate british people"."

Being British we're all routinely filled with so much self-loathing that you couldn't possibly hate us any more than we already hate ourselves, so it's just more water off a duck's back really.

If it helps 'though, sometimes I think I hate Septics even more than I hate my fellow Limeys.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

f the original poster had used the word "guy" rather than boy you can bet the US boys(save Alex) would have no problem with it cos its..y'know, US-centric.

Hey, DICK, I wasn't the one who had a problem with the word "boy."

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

Did someone have a point, or are we just resorting to insults?

― Christ Americans are such fuckjars, Thursday, 14 April 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 93 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

wtf people. mentalists.

[a moderator writes - do not assume that the topic starter is actually british]

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 15 April 2005 10:50 (twenty years ago)

She calls them 'guys' once they've whipped their badges out. So there might be something in all of this after all.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 15 April 2005 10:57 (twenty years ago)

Flavor Flav says 'yeah, boy' all the time.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 15 April 2005 10:57 (twenty years ago)

except when he's saying "Flavor Flav" and "know um sane."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 15 April 2005 11:21 (twenty years ago)

whatever happened to that grundy cunt anyway?

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Friday, 15 April 2005 11:21 (twenty years ago)

died in 1993.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 15 April 2005 11:23 (twenty years ago)

i'm more shocked by grundy's lecherous comments to siouxsie than anything else on the thread. guy seems like a total asshole.

― Amon (eman), Friday, 15 April 2005 11:36 (twenty years ago)

Unfortunately, most of us here on ILx look more like Grundy than we do the Pistols.

See, here's the real North/South divide - the South had sloshed, cynical Grundy, the North had hip 'n' cool Tony Wilson!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 15 April 2005 11:40 (twenty years ago)

one only needs to look at the people involved in the argument to discredit it.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 April 2005 11:44 (twenty years ago)

and to see who the actual bigots on this thread are

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 April 2005 11:47 (twenty years ago)

― Amon (eman), Friday, 15 April 2005 11:55 (twenty years ago)

I think James should organise a series of sports contests between "the brits" and the Americans to decide who is best, and then afterwards the two teams should all unite and get wasted and grab women's asses, and eat chicken wings and joke about who saved who's ass in the war.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 April 2005 12:00 (twenty years ago)

What exactly has this got to do with Vitalic?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 15 April 2005 12:02 (twenty years ago)

What do you mean?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 April 2005 12:23 (twenty years ago)

As an American, I have never heard anyone use the work Paki. Racist slur against Pakistani, I'm guessing? We don't get that specific here, a simple "towel head" or "a-rab" would work. I actually knew one girl who her entire life had only heard the pronounciation "a-rab" and didn't know that it was racist; she just thought it was how you said it. When she a read a story aloud in class that's how she read it. The ironic thing was, she was Chaldean.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 15 April 2005 12:35 (twenty years ago)

So Americans think Pakistanis are Arabs?

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 15 April 2005 12:42 (twenty years ago)

It's funny that the conflict here is about the use of the word "boy", as opposed to the use of the word "black".
-- lil Bobby Hutton (lilbo...), April 14th, 2005.

what a weird thread this has been.

― N_Rq, Friday, 15 April 2005 12:50 (twenty years ago)

So Americans think Pakistanis are Arabs?
-- Jonathan Z. (zin...), April 15th, 2005.

I don't think you understand racism. Or America.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 15 April 2005 12:54 (twenty years ago)

But at least I understand irony...

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 15 April 2005 12:59 (twenty years ago)

"Unfortunately, most of us here on ILx look more like Grundy than we do the Pistols."

True, but then in fairness, so do Steve Jones, Paul Cook and Glen Matlock - and even John Lydon's looking increasingly like Bill Grundy wearing a Sex Pistols wig lately.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 15 April 2005 13:05 (twenty years ago)

Is there any way we can bring rockism into this discussion?

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 15 April 2005 13:17 (twenty years ago)

Fuck. God damn shit. Fuck.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 15 April 2005 13:24 (twenty years ago)

i'm more shocked by grundy's lecherous comments to siouxsie than anything else on the thread. guy seems like a total asshole.

He's visibly drunk! Go rent The Filth and the Fury if you haven't, and watch the JFK-Zapruder-film-like breakdown of this monumental event...

― Pete Scholtes, Friday, 15 April 2005 14:44 (twenty years ago)

were tv presenters often drunk on air in the mid-seventies?

― N_RQ, Friday, 15 April 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

So, when J.Lydon gets his ownchat show?

"Go on, say something outrageous..."

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 15 April 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

You dirty bastard!

You dirty fucker!

What a fuckin' rotter.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 15 April 2005 14:53 (twenty years ago)

Well that's all from me tonight. That other rocker, Glen Matlock, I'm saying nothing, nothing, a rude word about...

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 15 April 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

(btw, do you think B.Grundy thought S.Jones said "You fuckin rocker"?)

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 15 April 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

He's like your dad, this bloke

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 15 April 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

(cripes, it's geezer isn't it)

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 15 April 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

I'll be seeing you soon.

I hope I'm not seeing Mark Grout again.

From me though, goodnight.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 15 April 2005 14:59 (twenty years ago)

(dancing round the table)

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 15 April 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

hang on, we've swapped seats!

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 15 April 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

wow, this thread blows, but the critical mass of posts to it drew me in. but this one jumped out at me:

As an American, I have never heard anyone use the word Paki

Don't forget Bush's use of the term:
"We are working hard to convince both the Indians and the Pakis there’s a way to deal with their problems without going to war," Mr Bush said.

(nb. the first line of the article is great: "THE White House last night insisted that President George W Bush meant no disrespect to the Pakistani people by referring to them as 'Pakis'.")

― john'n'chicago, Friday, 15 April 2005 15:37 (twenty years ago)

technically it's no worse than 'Brits' - words on their own are not offensive, it's the context that determines offence. pretty obvious distinction to be made between using a term as derogatory re ethnicity and just the blinkered ignorance for which Dubya is renowned.

― $V£N! (blueski), Friday, 15 April 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

"Unfortunately, most of us here on ILx look more like Grundy than we do the Pistols."

True, but then in fairness,...

what? speak for yourselves, gramps!

He's visibly drunk! Go rent The Filth and the Fury if you haven't, and watch the JFK-Zapruder-film-like breakdown of this monumental event...

yeah he's admits as much in his intro ("... you see they are as drunk as I am..."). is there a site w/ a clip of this? it's might be the best thing the pistols ever did : )

― Amon (eman), Friday, 15 April 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

here in britain it's shown on every channel 4 program

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 15 April 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)

is Boobah on channel 4?

― Amon (eman), Friday, 15 April 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

do you mean eurotrash?

(no)

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 15 April 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)

Just because you're a black boy
Just because you're a white
It doesn't mean you've got to hate him
It doesn't mean you've got to fight

The Specials: Doesn't Make It Alright

So they were racist sods, than!!!!

― zeus, Friday, 15 April 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)

Given this thread, I don't think that Dubya has the monopoly on blinkered ignorance.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 15 April 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

But it did set me to wondering why Booker T and the MGs would do such a RACIALLY OFFENSIVE tune as 'Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah'. Surely they must have known that they were playing with fire? ~

-- PJ Miller (pjmiller6...), April 15th, 2005.

recontextualization, ace.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 15 April 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

Anyway:

I've heard back from Steve Severin, who doesn't know what Simone is up to, but posted a question about her on his web forum (though with no luck so far):

http://ub3.homepagetools.com/sseverin/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=mouthtomouth&Post=218&Idle=10&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=

I've posted essentially the same question here:

http://onlyloversleftalive.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2567#2567

I've also heard from Don Letts (he hasn't heard from Simone lately) indirectly through James Spooner, and am waiting to hear from Ari Up, having contacted her management.

I think we're all probably talking about the right person. She seems to me to be worth tracking down, I think.

Complete side note: Doesn't M.I.A. kind of sound like Siouxsie?

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

nine months pass...

Who WAS the black boy?

― Serge Protecteur (nordicskilla), Monday, 30 January 2006 21:24 (nineteen years ago)

God I hate british people.

― OMG I SAID IT (Alex in SF), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:27 (nineteen years ago)

Anyway, I notice from those old forums that she (Simone) is still around. Is Pete Scholtes still about - did he get any joy on his quest?

Yeah - MIA does sound a bit like Siouxsie...

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 30 January 2006 22:55 (nineteen years ago)

God I hate british people.

BIGOT

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 30 January 2006 23:29 (nineteen years ago)

three years pass...

Small ot.

― Mark G, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 10:55 (fifteen years ago)

http://www.televisionpersonalities.co.uk/pistols.htm

.. has it as 'Simone'

― Mark G, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:00 (fifteen years ago)

that's exactly what eman c&p'd four years ago.

― Cosmic Ugg (S-), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 12:30 (fifteen years ago)

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