Ironic wiseasses from the 90's and their failure to grow in the 00's

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I heard the new Weezer single "Beverly Hills" the other day and after feeling really disappointed I started thinking about how cool it must've been to be such a sly wiseass in the 1990's for so many groups and also how said groups just can't pull it off anymore. This got me thinking about some ironic jokesters from that era (Malkmus, Ben Folds, Stuart Murdoch and Beck among the few that sprang up) and it got me thinking about the lifespan of 90's irony guys in general.

At what point, if any, does an artist have to abandon such behavior and change? Irony and tongue-in-cheek comedy never went away (as the enormous success of the Daily Show shows) but is it at the point where it has become tired to see 30-year-old artists from the 90's still trying to do it so explicitly?

In my opinion, the reason Beck has been able to continue to be critically acclaimed is because he has shown a much more serious side of himself, while Murdoch and B&S bounced back by changing style and going into a New Wavish safety net in 2003. Do you think the reason Folds, Malkmus, and Cuomo (among others) are struggling artistically (or at least starting to grow a bit stale) is related to not being able to grow up and adapt their sense of humor/outlook to a now more grown-up audience? Is it still funny to watch an almost middle-aged Cuomo employ humor typically associated with college kids?

I admit that this whole argument is worthless if you still back all these guys 100%.

― Cunga (Cunga), Sunday, 17 April 2005 05:21 (twenty years ago)

what's malkmus done wiseass and ironic lately?

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 17 April 2005 05:27 (twenty years ago)

He's toned it down but I think that the mixed reception to his more serious stuff (if you want to call it that) is an example of a formely ironic artist struggling to not go back to the bread and butter of wiseassery.

The difference between he and Beck is I think that Beck pulled off what he's been trying to do.

― Cunga (Cunga), Sunday, 17 April 2005 05:31 (twenty years ago)

this question would be appropriate if you were asking about cake or ween. except ween are still great!! as for folds / malkmus / cuomo, i don't think wiseass humor was ever really the big draw.

weren't folds and cuomo totally non-ironic anyway? i thought that was the whole point of those groups. malkmus did have a dry humor about him but i don't think he was ever tongue-in-cheek about anything. i mean, he was funny, but he wasn't ever mocking the adopted POV, was he? (there's my loose understanding of how yr using the term "irony")

― vahid (vahid), Sunday, 17 April 2005 05:31 (twenty years ago)

you might as well ask this question about sonic youth if you're going to ask it about pavement (translation = i think you're completely wrong about pavement)

― vahid (vahid), Sunday, 17 April 2005 05:35 (twenty years ago)

Well, "Beverly Hills" was 1000% better when it was "Unfair" off Crooked Rain..

I dunno. I hate most of these bands except Pavement (who are one of my favorites of all time). Underneath all the randomness and goofing around there was something serious going on with them. I don't know what is the point of Beck, really!

OK, Belle and Sebastian are good at what they do. I guess what they do strikes me as too precious to handle unless you live in a college bubble, like "I Fought in a War" sounds like some poet from World War I who didn't actually ever question all the idealism that got him there.

― daria g (daria g), Sunday, 17 April 2005 05:38 (twenty years ago)

Cake and Ween are even better examples of the idea, you can use them if you want as they fit the mold perfectly.

Weezer was totally ironic in some ways in the beginning (Loud rock in the Happy Days restaurant!?) and then went to being completely earnest with Pinkerton before going back to writing songs from the point-of-view of a transvestite hooker and being a little bit sillier. Although Pinkerton did have a sort of surreal aspect to it in the subject matter of some songs (The Good Life, El Scorcho).

I've always found Pavement's stuff to be incredibly ironic. From sarcastically praising rival bands to referencing his Mark E. Smith homage as Smith stealing from him.

― Cunga (Cunga), Sunday, 17 April 2005 05:41 (twenty years ago)

yeah but sarcasm is totally different from irony.

― vahid (vahid), Sunday, 17 April 2005 05:47 (twenty years ago)

Right. One of them is very American. The other one, we don't get.

― daria g (daria g), Sunday, 17 April 2005 06:15 (twenty years ago)

http://www.billboard.com/billboard/photos/artists/mike-doughty.gif

― jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 17 April 2005 06:51 (twenty years ago)

I hated him in the 90s, but G. Love fits the bill perfectly. God, his music is awful.

― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

who has malkmus sarcastically praised since the stone temple pilots/smashing pumpkins/r.e.m. references from over a decade ago? (and i'm not sure the r.e.m. thing was entirely sarcastic.)

― Volker Schlöndorff (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

Blur (circa "Song 2") I think.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:29 (twenty years ago)

It's weird, but this is kind of how I was feeling when I put up the Philistines Jr. post. Not that Philistines Jr. are really wiseasses or anything, but I just feel like the cynical candidness of indie rock is just totally repellent now. It's jaded but not afraid to be cutesy and gushy and wear its heart on its sleeve. It's a mixed message that becomes tedious. At the time, it seemed fresh and reactionary to the impersonal formulaic radio "fake"-ness, but it has outworn it's welcome just like that socially awkward old friend who can't grow up.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:32 (twenty years ago)

who has malkmus sarcastically praised since the stone temple pilots/smashing pumpkins/r.e.m. references from over a decade ago?

Yul Brynner!

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

not the same, I know. I also want to say Bob Packwood, all the same.

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:36 (twenty years ago)

Geddy Lee!

― daria g (daria g), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

Are people who call out ironic wiseasses of the 90s the ironic wiseasses of the 00s?

www.hipperthanthou.com

― Failin Huxley (noodle vague), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

PAT O'BRIEN THINKS INDIE ROCK SUCKS:
http://www.nypress.com/18/13/listings/danmartino.cfm

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:39 (twenty years ago)

oh yeah, geddy lee. but yul brynner? how can malkmus have anything but genuine love for the king of siam, and the robotic cowboy from westworld?

― Volker Schlöndorff (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

yeah there was nothing ironic or sarcastic about malkmus' rem love.

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:42 (twenty years ago)

9.11 killed irony, remember?

― irrigation can save your people (irrigation can save your peopl), Monday, 18 April 2005 02:58 (twenty years ago)

I was just listening to the 'blue album' for like the 2nd time ever today and cringing my way through the over sincere parts but then remembering how much more I hate the ironic rocking-out faces they make when playing those 'shredding' leads in the "Beverly Hills" video, etc.

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 18 April 2005 03:07 (twenty years ago)

Folds' biggest hit was a sad ballad about abortion. Not exactly ironic.

― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

Um, I don't think comedic irony started in the 90s.

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

'Beverley Hills' is shockingly bad, even for Weezer.

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:03 (twenty years ago)

Seconded, $VEN.

It's the first single of their that I don't understand the love for.

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:47 (twenty years ago)

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