Why was "Hot Fuss" by The Killers not on the Channel 4 Best Album Poll tonight. I mean... HELLO?

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MAJOR fuck up anyone?

And who the hell ever thought Tim Wheeler should give an opinion on anything?

― NamC, Monday, 18 April 2005 02:16 (twenty years ago)

Calum, do you like The Bravery?

― Alice, Monday, 18 April 2005 02:35 (twenty years ago)

I know the answer! What is, "Because it's bad"?

― WillSommer, Monday, 18 April 2005 02:38 (twenty years ago)

The Bravery - from what I've heard I remain unimpressed. Plus they look kinda gothy and I HATE GOTHS.

HATE HATE HATE.

Thankyou.

― NamC, Monday, 18 April 2005 02:42 (twenty years ago)

I know the answer! What is, "Because it's bad"?

I agree, but didn't OK Computer top the poll?

― Sasha (sgh), Monday, 18 April 2005 02:42 (twenty years ago)

Touche

― WillSommer, Monday, 18 April 2005 03:32 (twenty years ago)

That C4 list in full, for those who g an f:

1. RADIOHEAD - OK Computer
2. U2 - The Joshua Tree
3. NIRVANA - Nevermind
4. MICHAEL JACKSON - Thriller
5. PINK FLOYD - Dark Side of the Moon
6. OASIS - Definitely Maybe
7. THE BEATLES - Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
8. MADONNA - Like a Prayer
9. GUNS N' ROSES - Appetite For Destruction
10. THE BEATLES - Revolver
11. R.E.M. - Automatic for the People
12. THE BEATLES - The White Album
13. QUEEN - A Night at the Opera
14. COLDPLAY - Parachutes
15. OASIS - (What's the Story?) Morning Glory
16. ALANIS MORISSETTE - Jagged Little Pill
17. LED ZEPPELIN - Led Zeppelin IV
18. THE VERVE - Urban Hymns
19. THE JIMI HENDRIX EXPERIENCE - Are You Experienced?
20. THE SMITHS - The Queen Is Dead
21. JOHN LENNON - Imagine
22. RADIOHEAD - The Bends
23. BOB MARLEY AND THE WAILERS - Exodus
24. THE STONE ROSES - The Stone Roses
25. SIMON AND GARFUNKEL - Bridge Over Troubled Water
26. BJORK - Debut
27. THE DOORS - The Doors
28. ABBA - Arrival
29. MICHAEL JACKSON - Off the Wall
30. DURAN DURAN - Rio
31. SEX PISTOLS - Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols
32. DAVID BOWIE - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
33. THE BEACH BOYS - Pet Sounds
34. JOY DIVISION - Closer
35. THE ROLLING STONES - Let It Bleed
36. BLUR - Parklife
37. BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN - Born to Run
38. BILLIE HOLIDAY - Lady Sings the Blues
39. THE WHITE STRIPES - Elephant
40. BLACK SABBATH - Paranoid
41. THE SPECIALS - The Specials
42. THE ROLLING STONES - Exile on Main Street
43. FRANK SINATRA - Songs for Swingin' Lovers
44. THE CLASH - London Calling
45. THE PRODIGY - The Fat of the Land
46. THE VELVET UNDERGROUND - The Velvet Underground and Nico
47. DIRE STRAITS - Brothers in Arms
48. PIXIES - Doolittle
49. ARETHA FRANKLIN - I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You
50. THE LIBERTINES - The Libertines
51. HAPPY MONDAYS - Pills 'N' Thrills and Bellyaches
52. PATTI SMITH - Horses
53. THE WHO - Tommy
54. LOU REED - Transformer
55. BOB DYLAN - Blood on the Tracks
56. PRINCE - Sign 'O' The Times
57. DIDO - No Angel
58. AIR - Moon Safari
59. ELTON JOHN - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
60. THE JAM - All Mod Cons
61. JEFF BUCKLEY - Grace
62. FLEETWOOD MAC - Rumours
63. MOBY - Play
64. RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS - Blood Sugar Sex Magik
65. THE POLICE - Synchronicity
66. JONI MITCHELL - Blue
67. CURTIS MAYFIELD - Superfly
68. ELVIS PRESLEY - The Sun Sessions
69. OUTKAST - Speakerboxxx/The Love Below
70. PULP - Different Class
71. KRAFTWERK - Trans-Europe Express
72. MASSIVE ATTACK - Blue Lines
73. BECK - Odelay
74. STEVIE WONDER - Songs in the Key of Life
75. KATE BUSH - Hounds of Love
76. TALKING HEADS - Fear of Music
77. EMINEM - The Marshall Mathers Album
78. MARVIN GAYE - What's Going On
79. GEORGE MICHAEL - Faith
80. VARIOUS - Saturday Night Fever OST
81. PRIMAL SCREAM - Screamadelica
82. JOHN COLTRANE - A Love Supreme
83. LOVE - Forever Changes
84. PAUL SIMON - Graceland
85. NICK DRAKE - Five Leaves Left
86. MEAT LOAF - Bat Out of Hell
87. DUSTY SPRINGFIELD - Dusty in Memphis
88. DE LA SOUL - 3 Feet High and Rising
89. THE STROKES - Is this It
90. MADNESS - One Step Beyond...
91. ROBBIE WILLIAMS - I've Been Expecting You
92. NEIL YOUNG - After the Gold Rush
93. PUBLIC ENEMY - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
94. BLONDIE - Parallel Lines
95. THE EAGLES - Hotel California
96. JAMES BROWN - Sex Machine
97. THE STREETS - A Grand Don't Come for Free
98. DEXY'S MIDNIGHT RUNNERS - Searching for the Young Soul Rebels
99. ROD STEWART - Every Picture Tells a Story
100. The HUMAN LEAGUE - Dare

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:16 (twenty years ago)

When Nick Drake came on, Alice(5) said "Oh he's really good. He's dead though"

(I wish she'd pack that in, sometimes)

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:18 (twenty years ago)

ALso, is this the thread where we say "What, no Trout Mask Replica?"

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:19 (twenty years ago)

This is the kind of thing that happens when C4 don't send me a ballot paper.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:21 (twenty years ago)

Only ten black acts/artists is a bit of a joke isn't it? They're the first ten you'd think of as well (except Outkast I guess).

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:24 (twenty years ago)

Yep, all the usual token ones.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:29 (twenty years ago)

Steve, aren't there more like 14 or 15 black artists there plus a few multi-racial bands?

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:34 (twenty years ago)

i don't know i didn't actually read the list arf arf

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:39 (twenty years ago)

Oh right, must be sharper on the token anti-tokenism jokes!

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:42 (twenty years ago)

By my count, 20 albums involving black musicians, seven of which count as multi-racial (nine if you include Michael Jackson ahem).

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:46 (twenty years ago)

no 'Maxinquaye' is the most surprising omission perhaps given it's cool status. same goes for 'Dummy'.

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:52 (twenty years ago)

There's an even more surprising omission than those - no Astral Weeks!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 08:58 (twenty years ago)

Demographic for these programmes = Lumpen Post-Britpop 20/30 somethinks who stopped liking music in 1996, innit?

― Failin Huxley (noodle vague), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:01 (twenty years ago)

No Kind of Blue either but it is damn good to see Coltrane in there (should have been Meditations instead though!).

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:04 (twenty years ago)

Well in my book it would have been Ascension or Interstellar Space as opposed to ASL which is possibly the dullest record of his career.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:06 (twenty years ago)

Or ALS, rather.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:07 (twenty years ago)

no 'Kid A' either

― zappi (joni), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:07 (twenty years ago)

Who voted, Joe Public?

Of minor interest: there were some people talking who I'd never seen before, like Tony Asher and some others who I can't remember, so fat lot of good it did me.

How much do pudits gets for their punditry on thse programmes? They are rubbish and they ruin everything. The woman talking about Bjork was particularly bad, I thought.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:10 (twenty years ago)

As I say, I did not receive a ballot paper from C4 to vote in this poll, and I know no one else who did, unless we were supposed to vote online or something. So it is unclear whether any member of "Joe Public" actually participated in this poll. I suppose if they had done the end result would have looked like this:

1. BUSTED - A Present For Everyone
2. WILL YOUNG - Friday's Child
3. ROBBIE WILLIAMS - Greatest Hits
4. KYLIE MINOGUE - Fever
5. COLDPLAY - A Rush Of Blood To The Head
6. DIDO - Life For Rent
7. EVA CASSIDY - Songbird
8. 50 CENT - Get Rich Or Die Tryin'
9. KEANE - Hopes And Fears
10. GEORGE MITCHELL MINSTRELS - The Black And White Minstrel Show

Just a guess.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:13 (twenty years ago)

Oh, you can't beat a bit of Eva Cassarole!

Who was that ass that invoked Stockhausen at one point anyhow? Looking at the list, I can't even remember whose genius he was talking about at the time either. Coldplay?

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:18 (twenty years ago)

that ass that invoked Stockhausen - i think he was on about the beatles, i was half asleep and only saw it from alanis morri-fucking-sette. no loveless?!? the game's a BOGEY!

― bg (creamolafoam), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:38 (twenty years ago)

I suppose he must have been talking apropos "Revolution #9," which owes far more to Richard Maxfield than it does to old Karlheinz 57 Varieties.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:40 (twenty years ago)

I enjoyed a fair amount of the mini-docs accomanying the albums.

Also enjoyed the "Well, we'll play two snippets and pass over this" of Dire Straits, Dido et al.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:52 (twenty years ago)

They got the Gary Glitter treatment, did they?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:53 (twenty years ago)

The bits I saw looked a bit ballot-stuffed, in fact I performed an improvised monolgue about the organisational capabilities of the Dire Straits Barmy Army, but looking at the list as a whole, maybe not.

I had never seen that Radiohead video with the chip bomb.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:56 (twenty years ago)

Stockhausen was invoked wrt Tomorrow Never Knows i think

― Jaunty Alan (Alan), Monday, 18 April 2005 09:57 (twenty years ago)

"Tomorrow Never Knows" sounds more like "I'm Walking Backwards For Christmas" than it does anything by Stockhausen!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 10:03 (twenty years ago)

"Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream..
It's a publicity stunt
It's a publicity stunt..."

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 April 2005 10:08 (twenty years ago)

The ultimate in flawed thinking, why should we care about an unnamed mass' 100 favourite albums, it's an uninteresting compromise before you even start thinking about it.

What I could stand to watch is a program about one persons top 100 albums, not neccesarily anyone that famous maybe, but it would possibly say more about music than any daft poll.

My Suggestions-

Will Self
Blixa Bargeld
Magnus Mills
Kevin Shields
Chris Morris

― mzui (mzui), Monday, 18 April 2005 10:33 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but they'd only go and get on...

Lisa L'Anson
Ian Botham
Nadia
Jeremy Clarkeson
Y.Girl actor from Coronation Street no 32.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 April 2005 10:36 (twenty years ago)

I don't get why people think The People are really interested in the choices of The People. When was this proven?

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

No quips about defunct Sunday tabloids please

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

You never know, Ian Botham might be a massive Merzbow fanatic!

― mzui (mzui), Monday, 18 April 2005 10:46 (twenty years ago)

Magnus Mills?! Whaaat!? Have ever met or talked to or heard Mr Mills? The one thing he is not is C4 talking head material. Perhaps you're thinking of Magnus Magnusson, or Mike Mills or, more likely, E.L. Wisty.
I was amazed and delighted that 'Fear of Music' was in there, but how come Radiohead had two entries but not Coldplay? Even I can tell that the second one isn't as bad as the first.
Wasn't Stockhausen was invoked by Guy Chambers, the man who writes soundtracks for Robbie Williams videos?

― snotty moore, Monday, 18 April 2005 11:37 (twenty years ago)

i'd rather Radiohead had five entries than Coldplay have any.

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 11:43 (twenty years ago)

Could say it's cos it's not very good.

But neither are most of those on the list.

― mei (mei), Monday, 18 April 2005 11:50 (twenty years ago)

I was just pleased that Pulp made the cut.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 18 April 2005 11:56 (twenty years ago)

Mzui's general point is good.

I was glad to see The Joshua Tree at #2, and The Queen Is Dead at #20.

― the bellefox, Monday, 18 April 2005 12:15 (twenty years ago)

I've never seen/heard Mr Mills, but I'd be interested in a rough musical map of his brain.

The fact that he's not C4 dial a quote material is academic, or possibly more attractive.

― mzui (mzui), Monday, 18 April 2005 12:48 (twenty years ago)

He likes Runrig.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 April 2005 12:49 (twenty years ago)

Get away!

― mzui (mzui), Monday, 18 April 2005 12:51 (twenty years ago)

there was only 150 albums you could vote for!

― elwisty (elwisty), Monday, 18 April 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

my nearest guess is that it isnt one of the best 100 albums.

thats why hot fuss isnt on there.

it reallyu is that simple.

― danny boy, Monday, 18 April 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

I voted in this. IIRC my picks - that made it - were

8. MADONNA - Like a Prayer
20. THE SMITHS - The Queen Is Dead
28. ABBA - Arrival (my #1!)
29. MICHAEL JACKSON - Off the Wall
34. JOY DIVISION - Closer
41. THE SPECIALS - The Specials
50. THE LIBERTINES - The Libertines
51. HAPPY MONDAYS - Pills 'N' Thrills and Bellyaches

62. FLEETWOOD MAC - Rumours
70. PULP - Different Class
71. KRAFTWERK - Trans-Europe Express
72. MASSIVE ATTACK - Blue Lines
75. KATE BUSH - Hounds of Love
80. VARIOUS - Saturday Night Fever OST
83. LOVE - Forever Changes
85. NICK DRAKE - Five Leaves Left
88. DE LA SOUL - 3 Feet High and Rising
97. THE STREETS - A Grand Don't Come for Free
98. DEXY'S MIDNIGHT RUNNERS - Searching for the Young Soul Rebels

― David Merryweather (DavidM), Monday, 18 April 2005 13:01 (twenty years ago)

Didn't Paul Weller say he wanted Arrival to be #1?

― Masked Gazza, Monday, 18 April 2005 13:15 (twenty years ago)

THE VELVET UNDERGROUND CHANGED EVERYTHING BEFORE THEM IT WAS JUST PRETTY BOYS WITH GUITARS PLAYING SONGS

― N_RQ, Monday, 18 April 2005 13:20 (twenty years ago)

TOMORROW NEVER KNOWS CHANGED EVERYTHING BEFORE THEM IT WAS JUST PRETTY BOYS WITH GUITARS PLAYING SONGS

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 April 2005 13:27 (twenty years ago)

PET SOUNDS CHANGED EVERYTHING BEFORE THEM IT WAS JUST PRETTY BOYS WITH GUITARS PLAYING SONGS

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 April 2005 13:27 (twenty years ago)

There were 125 to choose from. Which isn't much for a top 100 really is it? Still, a wholly people-polled list would probably be horrible. This one was predictable, but not too bad.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Monday, 18 April 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

I'd much rather it had been 'viewers just vote for whatever you want' actually, as I'm more interested in how this has changed rather than how the views of a select band of critics has changed in the last 5-10 years. Otherwise yes, just show the top 100 as chosen by one person with good taste and knowledge.

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:06 (twenty years ago)

i wouldn't have voted even if i had been polled if you choose out of 125! it's kind of undignified. what 25 records failed to make the cut, then?

but also: ALBUMS ARE SO PRE-1987

― N_RQ, Monday, 18 April 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

Or televise live the top 100 albums as compiled in the classic Freaky Trigger style i.e. bunch of people (straight mixture of critics/experts and public from varying cultures, 'class', age and stock) in a pub getting progressively drunker but having to rely on memory the whole time (no pre-written lists to hand). I would so watch this.

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

For this list to be taken even slightly seriously Hot Fuss by The Killers would have to be in the top 20 AT LEAST.

― NamC., Monday, 18 April 2005 14:41 (twenty years ago)

otm

― Schwip Schwap (schwip schwap), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

You Britons and your quaint little lists!

― Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:45 (twenty years ago)

rofl jon

pick 100 albums out of 125 candidates! wtf?! what a meaningless excuse for a tv program!

the killers are very ordinary calum. you should listen to eclection instead.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:46 (twenty years ago)

I mean, the British love their navelgazing, but this list is altogether too BRITISH.

And I suppose it does reflect the passing fancy of John Q. Public, but America has better taste than to rank Pink Floyd so fucking high.

And let me be frank, the Smiths were a singles band and we all fucking know it.

Silly Brits!

― Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:47 (twenty years ago)

pick 100 albums out of 125 candidates! wtf?! what a meaningless excuse for a tv program!

Most Britons won't even know much outside of these.

― Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

pink floyd weren't big in the states?

― N_RQ, Monday, 18 April 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

It is not Britons, it is Channel 4.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

I dunno jon, I suspect that if this had been a "free choice" albums list, there'd have been more METAL, and "Close to the Edge" might have been in there and we can't have have that, can we? o no.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

Pink Floyd wasn't as big at all! I remember seeing somewhere that there was nearly a copy of that album for every household in England (or maybe it was the UK -- but you see the point).

xpost. Holy fuck, metal is missing!!!!

― Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

+ yes, lists = the bane of british musick media "this month it's official the 100 greatest ever guitar solos that are not on a record that is part of an unhip music genre"

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 April 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

But when it comes down to it, this is a list whose voters aggregate preferences ranked fucking COLDPLAY over:

BLACK SABBATH
OUTKAST
THE CLASH
PUBLIC ENEMY
KRAFTWERK

etc.

Anyway, I think the "choices" for the list reek of cultural revisionism and a Anglo-centricism (particularly the disproportionate representation of Manchester) that is out of touch with most UKers realistic perception of pop music.

Also: no Iggy Pop or Stooges.

― Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

Presumably, each voter didn't pick 100 out of 125. Poss, 10 out of, then whittled out the bottom 25...

Still poor, though.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

nb suspicious lack of IRON MAIDEN in a british "100 best albums" list, yeah right. Fuck this shit.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)

Jon you don't like "Meddle" say? NO Pink Floyd? Geez.

― Schwip Schwap (schwip schwap), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:04 (twenty years ago)

NOT THAT GREAT.

― Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)

Well no as it has "San Tropez" and "Seamus" on it but shit ONE OF THESE DAYS, ECHOES, it's pretty highend Ok at least and beats the crap out of "Dark Side of the Moon"

― Schwip Schwap (schwip schwap), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:11 (twenty years ago)

I think "Meddle" is prettyf fucking great, but Popol Vuh shit all over Pink Floyd, generally.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

Agreed, based on the one PV Lp I own

― Schwip Schwap (schwip schwap), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:14 (twenty years ago)

Which one?

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:15 (twenty years ago)

Jon loses major cool points for giving a shit

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:17 (twenty years ago)

I MEAN WHERE THE FUCK IS A GUY CALLED GERALD'S 'HOT LEMONADE'?

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:18 (twenty years ago)

Pash it's 'Aguirre, Wrath of God' tho now I check I also have a 1991 one "For You and Me" which is (from memory) better than seems likely.

― Schwip Schwap (schwip schwap), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:19 (twenty years ago)

"For You and Me" is OK, but you've got to hear "Tantric Songs" and "Das Hoheleid Salomos", they're awesome records!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

They're late too? Wow. How does "Aguirre" seem to you (I presume you've heard more than one 70s PV rec), I wanna get "Letze Tag" etc next

― Schwip Schwap (schwip schwap), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:24 (twenty years ago)

I've got most of them, I think. "Aguirre" I do really like. "Letzte Tage.." is one of my favourite ones as well, it's the most really full on & in yr face-sounding of all the more rock-sounding PV albums.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

Voters also had five 'free votes' to vote for what they liked not on the shortlist. It didn't make much difference, none of mine made it.

― David Merryweather (DavidM), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

What were they? What were they?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

I'm pleased for Meatloaf.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

....and The Stooges shit all over David Bowie.

And every band I like is more relevant than any band on this poncey list.

mega xpost

― Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Monday, 18 April 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

The best thing about that list is that Faith is in there. Besides that, I could go a while without ever seeing another alltime albums list. And I LOVE lists.

― billstevejim, Monday, 18 April 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

Plus they look kinda gothy and I HATE GOTHS.

This is the best reason to hate anything ever.

― billstevejim, Monday, 18 April 2005 16:43 (twenty years ago)

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