what was the first musical group to be referred to as a "band"? does the usage predate jazz?

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what it says on the tin.

― my friend flicka (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:51 (twenty years ago)

sousa maybe?

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

are you not counting marching bands? or brass bands? (xp)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:55 (twenty years ago)

the marine band dates back to 1798 so at least that far

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:55 (twenty years ago)

i would count those (but probably under "jazz"/"american music"/similar 20th century forms). (xpost)

― my friend flicka (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

The British brass band dates back to the early 19th century as an outgrowth of the medieval "waits" -- groups of musicians employed, usually by a city, to play in parades or public ceremonies. Many brass bands were organized by industrial employers to decrease the political activity of "the working classes." According to various estimates, by 1860 there were more than 750 brass bands in England alone.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

european minstrels?
i'm sure musical groups are called bands in shakespeare, which means it predates him..
wrong tree barking up am i?

― Masked Gazza, Monday, 25 April 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

yeah my webster's 11th says the word "band" dates to the 15th century, but is defined as "a group of persons, animals, or things; esp: a group of musicians organized for ensemble playing." so it's not clear whether it always carried this more specific meaning or only developed it later.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

this stuff is sadly one of the blind spots in my musical knowledge.

― my friend flicka (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

well it can mean something besides a group of musicians now - 'band of outsiders', 'band of brothers', 'band of the hand'

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=band

'"an organized group," 1490, from M.Fr. bande, from O.Fr. bande, traceable to P.Gmc. root of band (1), probably via a band of cloth worn as a mark of identification by a group of soldiers or others (cf. Gothic bandwa "a sign"). The extension to "group of musicians" is c.1660, originally musicians attached to a regiment of the army. To beat the band (1897) is to make enough noise to drown it out, hence to exceed everything.'

― todd (todd), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

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