(X) was a hero to most, but he never meant shit to me

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let X=Nick Drake for all time and eternity

― Aaron A., Monday, 25 April 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

Equation also works if you let X = Jimi Hendrix

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

Weezer.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

I like X!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

x = Bob Dylan

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

haterz, keep on hating.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:43 (twenty years ago)

Ramones. Eric Clapton. Janis Joplin. Ian Curtis. All worthwhile, with some great stuff I guess, but none of them anyone I ever spent five minutes thinking about, never bought their records. But I figure, I like so much, I can allow myself what might well be myopia...

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

Stevie Wonder! thx for reminding me (xpost)

― Aaron A., Monday, 25 April 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

x = Bob Dylan

Seconded.*

See also =
Scott Stapp
Eddie Vedder
Dave Matthews

* although "Boots Of Spanish Leather" is quite lovely indeed....

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:47 (twenty years ago)

ha!

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:48 (twenty years ago)

yeah, "boots of spanish leather" is probably my favorite dylan song. but otherwise i will never get sick of hearing people hate on dylan.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)

I just enjoy this thread for the Fight the Power reference that it is.

Muthafuck him AND John Wayne!

― Ash (ashbyman), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:53 (twenty years ago)

I think I do like one Dylan song, called Bear Mountain Massacre or something like that.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:54 (twenty years ago)

i might like more dylan songs than that one, but it's such a fucking chore to sit through his albums that i wouldn't know.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:56 (twenty years ago)

Michael Jackson

Runners up:
Bob Dylan
Bruce Springsteen
Patti Smith

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

i concur w/ alex, and add the following:

steve malkmus
lou barlow
jeff tweedy
eddie vedder
eric clapton
serge gainsbourg

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

another: jarvis cocker

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:16 (twenty years ago)

I'll stick with the original lyrics and say Elvis. Jerry Lee kicks his little mama's boy ass.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:16 (twenty years ago)

John Lennon

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:16 (twenty years ago)

Roy Orbison, too. And Muddy Waters, I find Muddy Waters incredibly one-dimensional compared to Howlin' Wolf.

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

Elvis was a hero to most
Elvis was a hero to most
Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant shit to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain
Mother fuck him and John Wayne
Cause I'm black and I'm proud
I'm ready and hyped plus I'm amped
Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps
Sample a look back you look and find
Nothing but rednecks for 400 years if you check

xpost ash stole my funny :\

― fe zaffe (fezaffe), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

Luomo, Joe Strummer, Jim Morrison.

― stevo (stevo), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

More, then....

- Jim Morrison
- Bob Marley
- Dusty Springfield
- Joni Mitchell
- Aretha Franklin (ugh! Silence thy shrill bleating, foul beast!)

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

let X=Nick Drake for all time and eternity

-- Aaron A. (__...), April 25th, 2005.

otm

― latebloomer: But when the monkey die, people gonna cry. (latebloomer), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:59 (twenty years ago)

How come no one has mentioned Bono, Conor, Byrne or Stipe yet? Sheesh.

― Michael J McGonigal (mike mcgonigal), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

Because they are all obviously geniuses.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:29 (twenty years ago)

*removes tongue from cheek*

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:30 (twenty years ago)

And Muddy Waters, I find Muddy Waters incredibly one-dimensional compared to Howlin' Wolf

I love the Wolf, but this seems totally ass-backwards to me. Of those two, Wolf is one who was the more dependent on a shtick - i.e., the growly, sandpaper snarl that gave him his name. Waters on the other hand was a subtle and nuanced vocalist with considerable range. He wasn't Mick Jagger's favorite blues singer for nothing.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

the definition of "most" is really being stretched here, isn't it?

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

bruce springsteen
sting
bono
paul westerberg
jonathan richman
bjork
tupac shakur

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

James Brown

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

I agree w/ Hendrix

― Bryan Moore (Bryan Moore), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

I second Elvis Presley

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

James Brown was a disaster to music, but he wasn't a hero to "most" anyway.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

I HATE SACRED COW

― The Sensational Sulk (sexyDancer), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

David Bowie

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

James Brown was a disaster to music, but he wasn't a hero to "most" anyway

I wouldn't say he was a disaster to music. I think his influence is overrated anyway. I've just never felt the need to buy any of his music. You're right that he was never a hero to "most" though, except maybe within the narrow confines of ILM critics.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

James Brown is my hero, one of 'em. I can't think of anyone in 20th-century pop music more important than him--maybe Louis Armstrong.

Well, I'm a heretic when it comes to Muddy Waters. I mean he did some great stuff, the Library of Congress material is cool, and what's not to like about Little Walter? But I think Wolf was far more interesting, rhythmically--I get tired of that Muddy Waters riff. I find Wolf far more interesting as a musical thinker, too, and think he sings a lot better than Muddy Waters. McKinley never really grabs me the way Chester does, I'm partial to those weird-ass Hubert Sumlin guitar solos. It's like Beatles vs. Stones, or Sinatra vs. Dean Martin or something, I guess.

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

James Brown is a hero to most of those who are

1. into hip-hop and funk

AND

2. interested enough in older stuff to realize there was this guy called James Brown in the 60s and 70s.

That leaves most hip-hop-fans out....

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:00 (twenty years ago)

James Brown is my hero, one of 'em. I can't think of anyone in 20th-century pop music more important than him--maybe Louis Armstrong

I always see the word "important" attached to James Brown. Same thing goes for Armstrong. I think when people start liking you for your importance then that is a sign that they aren't really listening to you any more.

I guess Armstrong is usually considered the forefather of jazz, which okay, I guess he deserves the title as much as anyone, maybe except for Jelly Roll Morton or someone like that, but whatever. And since jazz is clearly important, then Armstrong must be important, or so the logic goes. Same thing for Brown. Brown is considered the forefather of hip-hop, I guess, since he was widely sampled by early hip-hop acts. And since hip-hop is important, then that means Brown must be important too.

It just seems like a very intellectualized way to approach an artist. But when I listen to Brown, I don't hear very much that speaks to me on a gut level. His music seems very cool and inscrutable to me - it's just kind of there.

Anyway, without Armstrong, jazz still would have existed, and without Brown, there would still have been hip-hop, if you ask me.

xpost

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

There is so much more to music than the Afro American traditions, and Lennon/McCartney have clearly been more important figures overall than James Brown.

Even though, to me, I see that James Brown is extremely important. Only I think he has moved music in the wrong direction, as I like a lot better the more melodic approach of 60s Motown than I like funk or hip-hop's exaggerated beat-and-groove-only approach.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

I think Geir's assertion that James Brown "was a disaster to music" actually supports his genius. i.e. he led the revolution that replaced melody with rhythm. And to some, though probably not most people, that insurrection has been a disaster for popular music.

James Brown was a TRUE hero to a lot of people in the 60s and 70s, but they tended to congregate in a certain part of town YKWIS.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

most blues musicians don't mean much to me -- i won't say "don't mean shit," b/c that's too disrespectful -- i just don't GET the blues, as opposed to actively HATING it (unless we're talking about the blooz, which is altogether different).

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

Why am I thinking that you're an even worse dancer than me, Geir?

People have dissed a number of 'sacred cows' of which I'm still fond, and theat's ok. They don't have to mean shit to you, but Muddy Waters? C'mon, he's a great singer.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

when I'm listening to James Brown, the last thing on earth I think about is "importance"

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:17 (twenty years ago)

I think Geir's assertion that James Brown "was a disaster to music" actually supports his genius. i.e. he led the revolution that replaced melody with rhythm

Geir has bought into the myth of James Brown and his "influence" - he just sees himself as a counter-revolutionary. But melody hasn't been replaced by rhythm - that's silly. They've always co-existed and they always will. To single out James Brown out of countless artists and acts over the years who did interesting things to highight rhythm in popular music seems peculiarly arbitrary. There are lots of combinations of sounds you could put together to come up with hip-hop.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

Dr Stanley Unwin

http://www.ronniescotts.co.uk/ronnie_scotts/ronniescotts/119/gifs/stanley_unwin.jpg

― Failin Huxley (noodle vague), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

Y'know what, I'm takin' back Bob Marley. I don't think he's a god or a hero, but he made some damn fine music, I must admit.

That said, Biggie and Tupac....yawn.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:47 (twenty years ago)

You've got a real bug up your arse about Biggie and Tupac tonight, Alex.

― Failin Huxley (noodle vague), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

that PE line always pisses me off (even though i love "fight the power") because a) it's one of the most overquoted putdowns this side of "that's not writing, it's typing", b) elvis wasn't racist nor was he a "hero to most," seeing as quite a few (if not most) ppl regarded him with class-based condescension or outright contempt when he was alive and even more see him as a joke now.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:50 (twenty years ago)

"Elvis was not a hero to all those people who regarded him with class-based condescencion or outright contempt; also, he never meant shit to me" doesn't scan though, J.D.

― Failin Huxley (noodle vague), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

FWIW, Chuck D later came out and said something like he had nothing against Elvis or his music per se but was merely commenting on his iconic status. Or something like that.

― Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:59 (twenty years ago)

So Geir is like a feedback loop right?

― Lethal Dizzle (djdee2005), Monday, 25 April 2005 22:08 (twenty years ago)

i wouldn't be surprised if chuck d was acting as if that elvis story -- that he said that "the only thing that n***ers are good for is shining my shoes" -- was accurate. perhaps someone subsequently corrected him, or at least pointed him to elvis's rebuttal in jet magazine.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 25 April 2005 22:09 (twenty years ago)

the Beatles. I really don't know what my problem is...I've over 500 CD's an not a single Beatles recording. Not a single recording.

― Matty, Monday, 25 April 2005 22:20 (twenty years ago)

Dave Matthews. If by hero, I mean composer of dorm room hookup soudtracks and grandiose wuss-strum pablam crap. But he still has never meant shit to me.

James Brown = a sad ghost of a revolutionary artist. He was THE ultimate band leader.

Howlin' Wolf v. Muddy = American League v. National League. They were really different artists who took different tacks on the electrification of the blues. And yes, Little Walter, Hubert Sumlin, Buddy Guy, James Cotton, etc., etc., etc. made those records what they were. That was one of the best things about having two GIANTS like Muddy and the Wolf being contemporaries in Chicago...they brought so many artists along through their careers.

― Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 00:01 (twenty years ago)

This thread is depressing.

― Keith C (kcraw916), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 00:34 (twenty years ago)

no shit

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

"Anyway, without Armstrong, jazz still would have existed"

Yeah, but Armstrong's impact was felt on pop music in general, not just jazz. He was the single most important musician of the 20th century. No one else can touch him and yes, I still listen to him as much as anyone else.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 10:56 (twenty years ago)

Mayo Thompson was a hero to Jim O'Rourke and David Grubbs, but he never meant shit to me

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 10:58 (twenty years ago)

I guess one could argue that funk, disco and whatever might have surfaced from stuff such as "Soul Man" too (the attack used on the drums on that one is pretty unusual for 1967), but it is hard to imagine it happening without James Brown.

And without him, hip-hop would have been toasting and dancehall.

(And basically, that is why I hate him, but there's no denying his influence)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 10:59 (twenty years ago)

that's a shame. have you heard corky's debt to his father?

xpost to dadaismus

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 11:05 (twenty years ago)

I've never forgiven him for ruining Pere Ubu

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 11:08 (twenty years ago)

Frank Zappa was a hero to Eric Morecambe but he never meant shit to me!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 11:08 (twenty years ago)

kurt cobain
sid vicious
paul weller
bono
nick drake
all of pink floyd

etc

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 11:16 (twenty years ago)

xpost to Dadaisums: I think David Thomas had no problems ruining Pere Ubu on his own, actually. And the Red Krayola albums are phenomenal to my ears, as well as "Corky's"...

Mayo Thompson imho is one of the raddest producers of the modern age: Raincoats, Felt, Chills, Shanks, Stiff Little Fingers, James Blood Ulmer, Shop Assistants, and the post-Slovenly band Overpass...

OK I'll shut up now. He's not a "hero" to me but I'd love to have dinner with him sometime.

― Michael J McGonigal (mike mcgonigal), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

MORE HATE LESS DEBATE

― Aaron A., Tuesday, 26 April 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)

(xpost) Yer right of course, David Thomas was doing his best to ruin Pere Ubu on "New Picnic Time" before Mayo even showed up - never trust a Zappa fan!

― Pradaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 18:33 (twenty years ago)

Don't forget Mayo Thompson also produced the Fall's "Grotesque (After the Gramme)" - one of the band's better moments.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

http://www.cucamonga.be/afbeeldingen/JimORourke1201.jpg
now we're really getting serious

― Aaron A., Tuesday, 26 April 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

Guys, Chuck D climbed down from that statement/lyric long ago. I don't have the quote handy, but he said something like Elvis was a bad motherfucker in his heyday, but was turned into something he wasn't, or something...

I wouldn't say that loving James Brown and the Beatles is completely required for loving great music, but it's an important first step.

Who didn't mean shit to me? Barry Gordy, probably.

― Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 26 April 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

Is that supposed to be a blanket sweep at Motown or just at Gordy personally?

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

(And if not loving James Brown means I can't appreciate great music, then so be it.)

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

(And if not loving James Brown means I can't appreciate great music, then so be it.)

I said exactly the opposite.

Personally, I don't give a shit about '60s Motown. Maybe all those great songs and great artists wouldn't have come together without Gordy. Maybe Napolean saved the French Republic. The man exploited people, abandoned Detroit, and I hate the sound of those records, which get sung in every goddamn white yuppie Hollywood comedy, and whose worth is far outstripped by overexposure.

― Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 26 April 2005 19:04 (twenty years ago)

I wouldn't say that loving James Brown and the Beatles is completely required for loving great music, but it's an important first step.

The Beatles, yes. James Brown, no. The Beatles saved music from blues. James Brown ruined it.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 19:08 (twenty years ago)

I'd take the work of Smokey Robinson & the Miracles (to name just one Motown act) over the collected works of James Brown any day.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

i feel about nirvana, pearl jam, stone temple pilots, etc. exactly what pete upthread feels about motown.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

I'd take Smokey live over Smokey's records. You ever see the T.A.M.I. Show, O. Nate?

― Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 26 April 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

I second Kurt Cobain. I'm too young to remember his life but from what I have learned he seems to have been rather elevated posthumously.

― Nick H (Nick H), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 20:29 (twenty years ago)

These threads come up every other week, and the same shit always goes down, so I might as well do the same thing I do in every one of these threads that comes up and say feh to Mark E. Smith.

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

You ever see the T.A.M.I. Show, O. Nate

No, sounds intriguing though.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

Kurt. When he sang I wished he would shut up. When he died I wished everyone else would shut up.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 20:55 (twenty years ago)

When you posted I wished you would shut up.

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

(sorry, couldn't resist; I have grown to see voiceferous Nirvana-hate as the alpha/omega 'hep contrarian tryin-too-hard' maneuver)

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 00:52 (twenty years ago)

http://www.africawithin.com/malcolmx/malcolmbw.jpg

"Well you didn't mean shit to me, either!"

― poortheatre (poortheatre), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 01:26 (twenty years ago)

i liked nirvana well enough when they were still around, though they were never my absolute favorite. i don't listen to them at ALL right now for any of a number of reasons, and i am a little wary of the post-kurt canonization of them (and kurt) in some circles.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 01:29 (twenty years ago)

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