Please go back and listen to "1979"....

and now i'm remembering that i haven't listened to starla in god knows how many years ... aargh, i still remember the first time i heard that. stoned, sitting on my mate's floor, just rapt. couldn't believe my ears.

that was the same night i broke his commodore amiga. happy days!

But "1979" is definitely where SP reached a peak....and considering where they had been, that's definitely high up there.

(If you have the "1979" single, James's "The Boy" is a classic......SP had so many great b-sides........)

But yeah, "1979". I spent a good 3 months in 1996 trying as hard as I could to recreate the guitar tones they used in that song. I still remember very clearly finally just giving in and yelling "FUCK YOU BILLY CORGAN", to which I could hear my roommate chuckle from the other room.

It's the dark jewel. Jimmy Chamberlin is such a core part of what makes the band for me that I can't call it the pinnacle per se but as a sidestep that allegedly failed -- sheesh, I wish *I* could fail so well.

I think Blink 182's tremendous 'I miss You' owes an awful lot to it too.

It STILL rankles me how Adore got hated on. If there hadn't been a three-year gap, would it have been received better? I wonder.

James as a geeky convenience store clerk always makes me laugh.

1. Siva
2. Rhinoceros
3. Drown
4. Cherub Rock
5. Today
6. Disarm
7. Landslide
8. Bullet With Butterfly Wings
9. 1979
10. Zero
11. Tonight, Tonight
12. Eye
13. Ava Adore
14. Perfect
15. Everlasting Gaze
16. Stand Inside Your Love
17. Real Love [#]

The DVD video collection is kinda essential for me (but I would say that) -- it's also very well done, got outtakes/background footage for everyone of them plus commentary, and the one for that video is a treat, talking about how it all came together.

"Perfect," which Mr. Miccio mentions, is interesting as a video because it's the sequel to "1979."

It STILL rankles me how Adore got hated on. If there hadn't been a three-year gap, would it have been received better? I wonder.

Perhaps if another song had been the lead single? Not that I don't love "Ava Adore," as I do -- and my god does THAT ever have a baroque video -- but if "Perfect" had been the lead...hm, who knows?

That's more or less the universal opinion on this song. It's grown on me over the years, although at the time I felt there were at least ten better songs on "Mellon Collie". But I haven't listened to that album in a while so I'm not sure if that's still true ... something for me to do tonight, I suppose!

MCIS was fairly ubiquitous throughout 1996, and even a bit into 1997 with the Grammys and stuff. It didn't seem like a three-year gap at the time. I agree that "Perfect" should have been the lead single ... even devoted fans of the album prefer several other tracks on the album over "Ava Adore".

Was thinking the same thing last night...still baffles me b/c "Ava Adore" is one of my least favorite songs on Adore

The sequencing on Mellon Collie, now that's genius

True, i think. "Tonight, Tonight" after the title track is brilliant.

By the way, did you ever hear that the band wanted "Jellybelly" to be the first single?

"Bullet With Butterfly Wings" was the first single, wasn't it? With Billy C twirling 'round in a chair in one of his 3xbillion black'n'silver ZERO shirts in the video, which took place in a graveyard for aircraft if memory serves right...

That's weird, I remember what your wife told ME yesterday. Oh wait I gave it away.

"Bullet with Buterfly Wings" killed so much of whatever "credibility" they had

The funny thing was everyone dumped on them for the 'rat in a cage' bit and all that -- and then a couple of months later "1979" and then "Tonight Tonight" start taking over the airwaves/MTV/etc...

Mega multiplatinum. I was content.

about as underrated as Daft Punk pre-HAA around here it seems. Sick of the sight of these threads.

Bearable for Gish > Siamese Dream
Hideous for most stuff after. 1979 being a notable exception (although even this isn't that good. He still sings on it).

"Bullet with Buterfly Wings" killed so much of whatever "credibility" they had (yeah I know boohoo but hey I imagine they DID want to appeal to intense teen intellectuals) so dead it's hard to believe, now. It's Ok.

OTM! the title hardly helped, or the even more appallingly titled DOUBLE album. "Tonight Tonight" ugh. the strings. puketastic.

Hatorade *glug glug*

And yeah, PB got the order right. "Muzzle" was also a radio hit in between "Tonight, Tonight" and "Thirty-Three", I believe.

Yes, i remember hearing "Muzzle" on the radio a few times. The band said then that it was their favorite song.

As a side note (don't know why i remember this), right before "Thirty-Three" was released as a single I saw an MTV News Brief where my man Kurt Loder claimed that "Porcelina of the Vast Oceans" was going to be the band's next single. Didn't happen, but i remember being ecstatic b/c i loved that song (and still do).

This is pretty much how I feel too - I'm fairly conflicted about the Pumpkins stuff in that some of it I like and have fond memories of, but it's surrounded by so much garbage. Last weekend I pulled out Pisces Iscariot (omg, those liner notes, awful) and Siamese Dream and while I still dig the production + guitars (high points for Starla and Today) most of the rest of the time I can't get past the lyrics and tuneless stadium rock twaddle. "1979" has a great video - one of those things that when I saw it, I was actually *jealous* of it it was so perfectly realized - the song itself is kinda eh, don't ever really need to hear it again, tho it is catchy.

Not that i agree w/ you, but many people say the same about Tusk, which i happen to love.

Is Mellon Collie a Tusk for the '90s?

Ned -- I just noticed you wrote the AMG review of "Mayonaise" -- did you ever happen to hear the live version from their second Reading performance? If not, you should. It's incredible. (I'll gmail it if you so desire).

god damn. these speakers don't go loud enough.

have also found a moby remix. hmm. wonder what it's like?

Please! nedr@sbcglobal.net, much thanks

I thought they were great live. Billy seemed to be having fun and Melissa Auf der Maur was hamming it up.

Yeah, their final LA show with Auf Der Maur was probably the best I ever saw them in terms of them getting along with each other. Best overall performance, hmmm...*thinks* Not sure, actually, possibly Lollapalooza 94 when Billy wasn't going insane.

I'm guessing Billy had some bad smack before the Lollapalooza gig?

"1979" has always seemed like a middle-of-the-road song to me. The main riff is cool (especially the vocal sample), but it doesn't seem to go anywhere.

And I saw them live several times and they were always excellent. Definitely WAY different than on record - Having listened to Corgan's super processed vocals on "Siamese Dream," and then to hear him whining them onstage, was a rude awakening (my first time seeing them was... fall of 1993 at the Hollywood Palladium with Shudder to Think opening. God, I would kill to be right there at this moment, filing in).

Does Corgan get respect as a guitar player? I always thought those solo tears he would go on over several of the super fast ones, like "Geek USA" and "Jellybelly," were just mindblowing.

Agreed. I remember thinking that when I bought the single, that it could all stand on its own as a separate release -- it was that strong, and "Set the Ray to Jerry" in particular is both delicate and powerful (thanks to D'Arcy's bass).

Does Corgan get respect as a guitar player?

One thing I could never get were all these glam/cockrock burnouts like Zakk Wylde complaining in later years about 'all that alternative shit' but specifically lumping in Corgan when talking about how the music sucked. I'm all, "Dudes, did you snort too much coke back then or what? Have you even HEARD the Pumpkins? He was listening to all the same stuff YOU were, Van Halen, Sabbath, etc., he's always said it, and he found a way to take all that and actually DO something with it while you were all masturbating over your Yngwie transcriptions. Eat shit and die."

Best review of the Pumpkins on that front I ever read was by Jennifer Nine in Melody Maker who said that Billy was the only example she could think of of a guy who read and practiced every last Guitar Player transcription ever and then brought a lot more to the table than the yank'em/crank'em crowd.

(One thing I don't like about Mellon Collie is the number of songs on which they try to duplicate "Silverfuck." "Silverfuck" >>>> stuff like "An Ode to No One")

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply to: anon-70101641@craigslist.org

Date: 2005-04-25, 12:53PM EDT

YOU HAD PIGTAILS AND AN AUS ROTTEN ASSFLAP AND PROBABLY SOME SORT OF CANVAS SHOE ON. I WAS WEARING A PUNX BAND T-SHIRT OF THE COOLEST VARIETY SO YOU KNOW I LIKE COOL MUSIC AND AM TOTALLY PUNX. IF YOU'D LIKE TO GET TOGETHER SOMETIME AND MAKE OUT IN PUDDLES OF PISS, VOMIT AND MALT LIQUOR, GET IN TOUCH!!!

KROQ played both in April 1998, and I played back "Perfect" ad nauseum. I got used to the song at the wrong speed and with static, so its eventual release was a slight disappointment. I still love it, though.

And, yes, James gets overlooked sometimes. I've never truly been able to pick out who did what solos (though I assume on Siamese Dream they were all Billy's...like everything but the drums were).

Ten years ago this would have been awesome (my teen idols have conquered decrepit hippie rock with a new wave track!) Now it's just depressing.

"Perceptions"

heh.

But definitely yeah, they could be such a fucking great band when they wanted to be. "1979" is a great song.

One thing I could never get were all these glam/cockrock burnouts like Zakk Wylde complaining in later years about 'all that alternative shit' but specifically lumping in Corgan when talking about how the music sucked. I'm all, "Dudes, did you snort too much coke back then or what? Have you even HEARD the Pumpkins? He was listening to all the same stuff YOU were, Van Halen, Sabbath, etc., he's always said it, and he found a way to take all that and actually DO something with it while you were all masturbating over your Yngwie transcriptions. Eat shit and die."

otm! fuck zakk wylde.

Before tonight, I last heard this album about five years ago. I burned myself out on the album + various live bootlegs from 1995-7, stopped listening to the band for a while, rediscovered "Adore" and "Siamese Dream", etc. Now welcome to five years later (at least).

I now believe that there are about six or seven songs on it that are better than "1979".

With many years of hindsight, I find that I can better enjoy tracks like "They Only Come Out At Night". In 1995, I liked the song, but couldn't stop thinking "WTF are they doing?". In 2005, I still like it but am thinking "OK, they're doing a twee little pop song".

I put a tab of acid on my dickhead
And my lover sucked my cock

Infinite sadness I know not.

Melancholic lust.

I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBcWAydqtow

It's hard to imagine anyone not liking this track.
― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:15 AM (9 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

had this exact thought just now

it's the Pixies with terrible lyrics

what pixies song does it sound like?

the badly written one they left off Bossanova

oh

I love this song, but weirdly if I had to rank all of the songs on Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness from favourite to least favourite then it would probably sit somewhere in the middle.

this doesn't sound anything like the pixies wtf are you talking about

The Pixies comparison is completely off.