Has the Bush presidency made political punk and rap seem less silly to you?

If only that had been Kerry's slogan instead of "Hope is on the Way", things would have been different.

Yup.

If only that had been Kerry's slogan instead of "Hope is on the Way", things would have been different.

Conversely, maybe political rappers would do better to start chanting "HELP IS ON TEH WAY" over and over.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), April 27th, 2005.

Why? does it just seem more futile now or something?

Current punk is just objectively shit, political or not.

Yeah, precisely in part because I find most overtly politicized lyrics, when I have noticed/read/etc. them, to be reductionist, simplistic, etc. This applies across the political spectrum, I should note.

actually the devil's advocate in me is inclined to say that political content in any and all art is futile -- not just post-election. but i also think that the futile is completely worth pursuing.

Yeah, precisely in part because I find most overtly politicized lyrics, when I have noticed/read/etc. them, to be reductionist, simplistic, etc. This applies across the political spectrum, I should note.

Yeah, but I think that's appealing to me now too! I want to be all adolescent and pissed about things cuz I don't rationally see anyway that any kind of reasonable, positive political movement is going to happen in the US, so I guess I'm just throwing mental bricks through windows and huffing glue in the parking lot of the mind now......LITES OUT GORILLA RADIO!

Inherently? how so?

xpost - i don't find it embarassing, that's different from futile.

I find overt protest music completely useless.

is this a long-lost anal cunt song?

yeah, in terms of the "active rock", homophobic morning zoo DJ world that Green Day inhabits, that lyrics was pretty ballsy to me.

This applies across the political spectrum, I should note.

I'm with Ned. For example: I used to admire the big queens in the jock straps and frocks that used to fill the TV every Gay Pride. Today, this is nothing like the brave freakshows from the days of Stonewall and Act Up!
Like punk and rap, it was once radical and daring. Now it's just trite, self-conscience shit. I'm much more impressed by people making attempts at DIALOGUE. Where are the artists daring enough to be gentle and understanding? Where are them anthems that question how we got into this Right/Left stand-off? Affirmation of mislead ideals seems hardly useful at this point in our country.

So no, the political stuff never seemed silly at all, except for when the audience missed the point ("fuck you, I won't do what you tell me" wasn't intended to be applied to professors expecting homework to be turned in on time).

(x-post)

hstencil are you really OSCAR WILDE?!?

they used to be, pre-clinton. watch one '84 dnc, fritz says some crazy awesome stuff.

no shakey i don't like gay sex, afaik.

A more than fair assessment. But hey, each of our voices is our own.

whoa that's about the silliest thing i've read on ilx about african-american music and culture, even compared to his geirness!

as far as i know

So I tend to not be so quick to discount the effect some of it might have, just as far as getting people who ignored politics entirely to pay some attention.

x-post

Dance music/party music with voice samples can be more effective. Taking it straight from the horse's mouth and putting it into the context you want to put it in -- not so different from what any of the big media corporations inflict on us every day -- could be like backward brainwashing, or therapy.

tho i tend to agree with you shakey on that, we have discussed this a lot on ilm and i don't think we'll ever come to consensus. which is not to say it's not worth discussing!

x-post

i didn't say that EVERY hip-hop song is inherently political. (though wr2 fiddy, check out his class-baiting lines in "what we do.")

This is the most insightful comment on here, intentional or not.

I can understand people not caring to listen to today's political songs, but it seems that not caring isn't enough. Most go out of their way to bash on and make fun of someone who tries.

I enjoy seeing younger bands and kids being political, even if it's been done before and (shock!) better.

You know why NWA wanted to "fuck the police"?

Because they got pulled over by the cops for shooting paintballs at people on the street out of the window of their car.

Is he, though? Daily KOS, not for lack of trying (in his own way), really hasn't done a thing. He didn't make a difference in the primaries, the general election, the aftermath, Iraq, nothing. He spends a lot of time preaching to his choir.

Which is kind of how I feel about overtly political music (from artists not usually/inherently political) these days. If you're an indie-rock act circa 2004 you need a Bush/Iraq War-bashing song, because your audience expects it, needs to hear it. They're missing the passion and anger of a "Fortunate Son" or "Clampdown."

Lyrically, they're too generic and direct, calling attention to the fact 'hey this is political look!' without any guile or wit. Green Day has had better 'political' songs than "American Idiot" on almost every album, but this is the one that gets praised to heaven for taking on Bush or whatever.

Actually, Negativland just released a new album and MBM are as well...

so is it better that these people just shut up, then? what's the alternative to preaching to the choir....

xxxpost-
What's better than preaching to the choir? Finding the language to win new converts. Not compromising artistry in search of partisanship, if you can't do that.

I totally agree about the lack of nuance in "political" lyrics. Most lyrics are sucky and lack nuance anyway, but I don't see why there's so little effort on the political front. I keep looking and hoping to find something from an American artist that feels fresh and interesting, given where I'm at as far as caring about politics, but it's just not out there.

*wince*

all right, i deserved that one, hstencil. I apologize for my lack of style. However, my point was not understood....

I'm really questioning the benefits of music that on the surface is rebellious, but ultimately is in the service of the powerful and results in the containment and/or deflation of the marginalized and/or ignored. This applies to all sorts of things.

I know a bit of the history of spirtuals and am well aware of their subtext, but this was beside my point. However, I chose my words and argument badly and came across crass. I apologize.

Actually, I like the radicalism I'm seeing sprout up lately but I can't believe there isn't more. The time is ripe! Although, i write songs and i really can't be bothered to get ultra-political. I don't want to preach to people. All the information is out there. anyway, i'll stop now.

What's wrong with the world mama?
People living like aint got no mamas
I think the whole worlds addicted to the drama
Only attracted to the things that bring you trauma
Overseas yeah we tryin to stop terrorism
But we still got terrorists here livin
In the USA the big CIA
the Bloodz and the Crips and the KKK

Granted more a general 'the real terrorists are among us DO YOU SEE?' rant than a 'fuck Bush' rant but anyway.

Inherently? I'm gobsmacked. Eavesdropping on these American threads frequently explains so very much.

Milo OTMFM. That's what's missing in most political music today -- the genuine outrage. Well, I guess it's more the combination of intelligence AND outrage (RATM had plenty of the latter). What's powerful about "The Lonesome Death of Hatty Carroll" isn't just the social critique, but the utter fury at injustice.

"Bush lied, people died: Take 1"

They commented on political and social realities, even expressed emotions about it, but it was never just "Hey, you jerks in government! You're being really stupid!"

Often they even expressed ambivalence or anxiety rather than mere objection.

I'm pissed off that US musicians aren't bombarding the marketplace with social and political protest. Unfortunately, when someone tries to flex their muscle (e.g. "Mosh"), the power of the lyric is rendered insufficient by the shitty timing (It needed to come out two months earlier! - and why the hell wasn't "Square Dance" released as a single while the propaganda con that led to Americans supporting Iraq was being perpetrated? Or a right-on description/satire like Todd Snider's "Conservative Christian..." gets lost in a specialist genre.

In general, though, rock and pop are good vehicles for rude political complaint - really rigorous analysis is rare and is less likely to impact the way a message should. I don't pooh pooh PE's politics because I believe the guy on Black Planet that points out that Chuck represents real frustration. And on the underrated "He Got Game" the analysis got pretty good indeed (and nobody bought it).

Sure, whether you agree with the politics in itself shouldn't lead you to kid yourself about how good the song is (although really crappy politics can simply be off-putting). But things that can come with a political lyric, such as bravery and growth, are perfectly valid ways to be won over.