Does The Hold Steady = The Streets of American Frat Rock?

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Wasted lives of wasted kids; plainspoken yet complex and intricate lyrics; vocals you have to learn how to "get". The only differences are music and cultural specifics.

Hm?

― southern lights, Saturday, 7 May 2005 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

As background, I think Separation Sunday is fucking brilliant in an almost-Grand-Don't-Come-For-Free-but-not-quite way.

― southern lights, Saturday, 7 May 2005 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"complex and intricate" - whatever.

― southern lights, Saturday, 7 May 2005 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

utter shite...

the lyrics aren't nearly as good as certain critics would lead you to believe... bullshit street jargon retelling of biblical themes sung by someone who shouldn't be singing over sub-cover band bar rock.

don't believe the tripe,

― hector savage, Saturday, 7 May 2005 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"singing"?

― cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 7 May 2005 03:01 (twenty-one years ago)

don't believe the tripe

All the haters you can hang 'em, I'll hold the rope.

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Saturday, 7 May 2005 04:16 (twenty-one years ago)

There's a backlash already? The album's been out four days.

― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Saturday, 7 May 2005 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

backlash? they always sucked.

― cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 7 May 2005 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Sucked, nothing. They beat the Futureheads bloody and leave them for dead.

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Saturday, 7 May 2005 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I hear they're Catholic

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

if the streets and the hold steady didn't exist, rock critics would have to invent them. i can't wait to hear the new album!

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 May 2005 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

actually, i can wait. i don't have the money right now to buy it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 May 2005 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

The only groups that deserve the phrase "if they didn't exist rock critics would have to invent them" are ones actually started by rock critics: Yo La Tengo, Pet Shop Boys, Hugo Largo, etc.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't heard a single note by them, but Tom talked me into going to their show tonight, so maybe I'll report back with my opinion.

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 7 May 2005 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I've been wary of the whole "bar band!" concept because I like bar rock and early Springsteen fine enough as it is without an indie filter.

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 7 May 2005 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

etc.

i love them!

on topic: All the positive reviews and i still don't feel the urge to download them, download! even!

― rizzx (rizzx), Saturday, 7 May 2005 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely if they've got Brit a equivalent it's Art Brut!

― nabiscothingy (nory), Saturday, 7 May 2005 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

(And surely if they've got an American equivalent then it's David Lowery doing not-so-good versions of same between Camper and Cracker. Finn would chew on those lines: "You remember me? I crashed your wedding.")

― nabiscothingy (nory), Saturday, 7 May 2005 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

nabisco - OTM re Art Brut comparison.

― blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Saturday, 7 May 2005 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

This new album is fan-fucking-tastic. It helps, of course, that he spends the entire album name-checking my hometown.

Big up the Mini Apple.

― giboyeux (skowly), Saturday, 7 May 2005 21:37 (twenty-one years ago)

....although, not fair calling it "frat rock." I know frat boys: they would not like the Hold Steady. Well, some of would.

Its like what would happen if Mike Skinner totally copped the Boss' steez. I mean, that piano interlude in the middle of "Stevie Nix" is straight fuggin' E-Street.

― giboyeux (skowly), Saturday, 7 May 2005 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Fred Schneider & The Jukes

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

haha you really are deaf, Anthony

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Craig Finn is SO not "Rock Lobster"

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

(haha xp)

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

"Rock Lobster" actually ROCKS OUT. that's the difference.

― xicciox (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

this a funny/scary thread to read right before going to see the band it's about.

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha keep dreaming that there's any correlation at all there beyond LOOKIT ME I THINK DIFFERENT AND ORIGINAL

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

thinking different and original = "there goes a catfish, chased by a dogfish"

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

you forgot to mention that I like Limp Bizkit, Matos.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

that has bubkes to do with this, and you know it

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

anyway, in this case the more apt you-like-this-haha would be Weezer

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

coincidentally I just found my copy of Separation Sunday fifteen seconds ago. It was in the CD case for The Razor's Edge. I think I'll put it on now. I like it though I'd probably like it more if I was a Catholic or the frames of my glasses were darker.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

seriously, I'd accept a Schneider comparison in re: Lifter Puller (or at least lots of Fiestas + Fiascos), but for the Hold Steady it's just reaching

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

or maybe it was a joke.

actually the most apt thing would be haha you prefer Louis XIV. Which I do.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

anthony, did you like da lifter puller?

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

(plus the Jukes are completely unmemorable if yr not Dave Marsh and THS are tres catchy)

haha well that's fine, I guess. I'm not gunning for your tastes here, there's no point to that with anyone (including me), especially at this point. we don't agree and that's fine. but I like your jokes better when they're aimed more accurately (and they often are)

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd probably like it more if I was a Catholic or the frames of my glasses were darker.

I'm a Jew with rimless specs and this is my favorite non-Sri Lankan-terrorist album of the year!

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:16 (twenty-one years ago)

that's only because Miccio forgot to add "or if you're from the Twin Cities" to the list

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

If anthony didn't exist, you would have to invent him, matos.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

anyway, to answer the thread title question: yes, for sure. Craig Finn's a big Mike Skinner fan, too.

haha Scott, not hardly

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I threw on the radio station's copy of the SFT-ROCK comp thing once and couldn't really deal with the monotony of his vocal delivery. I like melodic voices. There's like 20 D-Plan songs I'd take over "Ice Of Boston," you know? I want to give it another try and judging by my okness with the new album (Though it's kind of sluggish and more E Street Band then I dig) I think I might dig it more. He takes some getting used to and I don't find his lyrics as heavy as some people do. Jess thinks the voice works better over indie rock than this old school stuff and he might be right. Haven't heard Fiestas + Fiascos.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I live near the twin cities! at least in that one song, anyhow.

I might just have to trade in some CDs so that I can hear the new album. I'm kinda dying to hear it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I like "Multitude Of Casualities" quite a bit but that's cuz they nick the riff from Sugar Ray's "Falls Apart."

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Anthony, you need to hear Fiestas + Fiascos. you'd like it--the keyboards are SUPER new wave.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn that Twin Cities loophole!

Anyways, I was thinkin' lately that another parallel that might be bringupable re: the Hold Steady: Mott the Hoople. Yeah, I said it; listen to the lyrics of "Whizz Kid" if'n you doubt me.

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah I'm not a Minnesotan and I don't have a lot of experience with hard drugs either.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I could probably swim to new bedford, mass. well, i couldn't, but someone could.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

or any, really. Pot'n'tussin'n'booze. That's it.

(x-post)

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

TS: The Hold Steady vs. Three-6 Mafia

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw that Soft Rock thing in a used bin for 99 cents yesterday! I almost got it but I figure rarities comps, or whatever it was, aren't a good way to be introduced to bands.

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

download "Space Humping $19.99" and if that turns your crank, dig deeper. I took to his voice right away but lots of people need more time to like it, which I guess I understand, though I think the delivery's perfect for the material.

I don't have a lot of experience w/hard drugs, either, or at least I didn't when I got into Lifter Puller. but being around people who'd done them (MW raves 92-97 holla!) I definitely knew what he was talking about.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

soft rock really took me a while, anthony. my conversion process is well-documented on ILM. when it finally clicked, boy oh boy did it click in a big way. but i really had to keep going back to it until the words and stories became some sorta crazy addictive thing that i needed more of like crackrock.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

hey I'm gonna revisit but yeah alien subject matter + voice + big E Street organ swells + sluggish beats (at least on this new album, never heard Almost Killed Me in entirety) = forgive me if I don't do a backflip

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:25 (twenty-one years ago)

think Replacements, dude, that's CF's major less-obvious influence.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"re: the Hold Steady: Mott the Hoople. Yeah, I said it; listen to the lyrics of "Whizz Kid" if'n you doubt me."

there are few things in life that i love more than mott the hoople and i don't take comparisons litely (who did chuck say reminded him of mott? someone like third eye blind.), but, yeah, i can dig it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

ok if I can't bring up Fred Schneider you canNOT go there

(x-post)

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

only if like Dashiell Hammett were narrating it instead of the everykid at the center (xpost)

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't have to go there, the Replacements are Finn's favorite band ever, he's said so countless times

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

his favorite band could be the Bravery for all I care and all it matters.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i loved in the voice thing how the mats were just an unsuccessful rock band to him and not punk or indie or anything. just local yokels! it's easy to take the local acts for granted.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:31 (twenty-one years ago)

some of the best stuff on let it be is totally not indie at all. "Black Diamond" for chrissakes. Finn OTM about that. And the Mott comparisons are pretty OTM.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

granted, you can hear them a lot more in LP than in THS.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

there's nothing "indie rock" about THS anyway apart from methodology and in some of the lyrical refs--certainly nothing musically.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

and the fanbase

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

that's folded into "methodology"--I'm talking how they operate, who they market to, etc.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 7 May 2005 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Just another thing I noticed -- stylistically the two albums have almost nothing in common, but I think it's kinda funny that the names Gideon and Charlemagne figure prominently in both Separation Sunday and John Cale's Vintage Violence.

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Sunday, 8 May 2005 03:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Now the question is if there's a Gideon on the same Steely Dan album as "Kid Charlemagne," because then it's a plot.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 8 May 2005 03:44 (twenty-one years ago)

The Royal Scam does not have a Gideon, but there are references to "patron saints" in the title track, so I guess it gets partial credit.

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Sunday, 8 May 2005 04:05 (twenty-one years ago)

haha today when i ran i was listening to 'separation sunday' (hmm best football reference titled album ever?)(maybe the next one can be named 'touchdown jesus') and thinking of counterpoints etc. springsteen's one - they both love telling stories, both will revist a character, but no ac/dc or not enough in brooce, maybe if that riff at the very beginning of 'glory days' had stayed forefronted and was a bit nastier then the equation's dead on or close enough. anyhow i'm sure this is cuz of my habitat or maybe it was just 'o man that'd be a good live show' but who i really though of as a counterpoint to the hold steady were the drive-by truckers, southern baptist vs. roman catholic.

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 8 May 2005 04:20 (twenty-one years ago)

is the fanbase for the hold steady really indie up north? at the show in atlanta it wasn't really the case. not a large crowd though so who knows?

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 8 May 2005 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

haha as far as where I live is concerned, a Hold Steady "fanbase" is purely hypothetical.

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 8 May 2005 04:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Blount OTM; Finn told Matos (and me later when I interviewed him) that he really appreciated the DBT comparison I dropped in my Seattle Weekly review of Almost Killed Me. The big thing was how they really had a sense of locality that seems to be seeping out of American culture what with every town within a reasonable distance of an interstate highway starting to look exactly like the last.

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Sunday, 8 May 2005 04:51 (twenty-one years ago)

omg i just realised the common link between them: FRAN TARKENTON!

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 8 May 2005 04:59 (twenty-one years ago)

That's incredible!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 8 May 2005 05:11 (twenty-one years ago)

don't forget that "Too Much Sex (Too Little Jesus)" rendered Separation Sunday almost completely negligible.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Sunday, 8 May 2005 07:29 (twenty-one years ago)

the tarkenton connection IS sublime though, blount, nice work there

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Sunday, 8 May 2005 07:31 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/music/holdsteady/mccarren/other/7.jpg

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 30 June 2008 17:03 (seventeen years ago)

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