painfully slow

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painfully slow is how tom describes early hiphop/rap. i'm inclined to agree, but i'm thinking that this is an era/area i'm not well versed enough in (because it's underdocumented?) to make one of those informed decisions. prove me and tom wrong? or not.

― jess, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

that said, late 70s/early 80s nyc is still my utopia. except it's a utopia ridden with violent crime, urban blight, white flight, and a rapidily collapsing social structure owing to monumentally stupid city government decisions made in the late 60s and early 70s. que sera sera.

― jess, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think "laboured" was more the word I was looking for. Of course there are fantastic qualities to early hip-hop too.

― Tom, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Depends how early you're talking about, but I would say the opposite: hip-hop from the mid-to-late-80s was much faster than today. Dr Dre slowed things down in the early 90s by shifting the primary sample base from James Brown to George Clinton. Plus weed became much more prominent in the mix; and a slow, moody tempo is much more conducive to projecting a thugged-out aura. If you listen to a late 80s comp like, say, "Droppin' Science--The Best of Cold Chillin'" (Big Daddy Kane, MC Shan, Roxanne Shante, Marley Marl etc), the tempo is a lot faster than now, because it's all built on JB samples.

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But, like, really early hip-hop, 81-84 or so, is much slower. Much more electro-y too. I can't say I enjoy it for the most part, but it is pretty interesting to hear how primitive it sounded back then.

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah, I was talking about the early 80s stuff. I'm aware that's not what people usually mean when they say old school though - what is the word for it?

― Tom, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah, the "slow" comment had me scratching my head a bit, too, because the idea of really slow hip-hop came much later. But I know what Tom is talking about, when he mentions labored, and particularly w/ the idea of Afroman as a novelty throwback.

― Mark, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'd call the early 80s "old school." When people like J-5 talk about bringing it back, that's the time they're talking about (Treach. 3 and so on.)

― Mark, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Also, it's interesting to note how the appeal of going "old school" varies depending on time & place. Run DMC was talking about how their music was the new stuff, "never old school," and that was in like 1984. At other times, "bringing it back" is seen as a noble endeavor.

― Mark, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think for a lot of people, old skool means anything up to about 1990.

― N., Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

well, run-dmc were the first real sea-change in hiphop's (short, but nonetheless) history. (cf. sasha-frere jones' excellent history of the band in the vibe history of hiphop, one of the few good essays in there.) labored is a bit more on the money, but i knew what tom meant. innit most genres like that at the very beginning though, self-reflexive and keen to show the inner workings?

― jess, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

a sort of plain answer:

i can understand what run dmc say pretty easily when they are rapping.

bone thugs n' harmony (among a myriad of others) make me listen more than once to figure what they are talking about.

maybe it's a production issue, as well. i'm guessing run dmc is a lot more spare and spaced out compared to current production, for the most part.

this is probably due to the fact that i don't listen to a ton of hip hop, though.

― Todd Burns, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the FLOWS are so goddamned slow. Also, the fact that the rhymes are so metrically strict probably adds to the characterization of them as "laboured."

― Clarke B., Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Back when hip-hop was in its infancy, one didn't have the pressure to develop a distinct flow, and thus there wasn't the same technique that we have now. I believe all the distinctness was spawned from competition.

― tyler, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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