When publicists write reviews...

What unbelievable rubbish. Why are Remy Zero still around anyway? Do they seriously sell any records at all?

Yeah, is there some market of people who want to hear third generation Radiohead clones? If you look at the reviewer info, it says she's in a ween cover band.

But they mean it, maaaan. Oh dear. Direct link here.

That sure is a stupid site. How did you wind up there, Andy? Their selection of reviews looks like a cutout bin. Did you read the DiS Philosophy? They say they want to fondle your internal organs. Tell them NO WAY!

Thanks for the link! That is the worst music site I've ever seen. Unintentionally hilarious but utterly utterly awful awful awful. Proof: this

Jinx!!

That was very bad.

I'm sorry I'm addicted to this site now. YOU BASTARDS.

On 'Townies': "Aprechiate and respect people’s tastes is what I’m saying, afterall one person’s disgust is anothers tasty treat."

Link: here

This is clearly the best band bio on the net ever... Spacemen 3 would be so lucky.

one person’s disgust is anothers tasty treat

Truer words were never spoken. In fairness, this site appears to be written by schoolchildren.

Trying to bring that original link up now gives a bunch of back-end web errors. Anyone save the original?

Once upon a time, Jesus Jones meant something..

Drowned in Sound is now my favorite reviews site.

That S3 bio is genius. Sonic in Ministry? I wish the most.

I will stick out like a saw thumb.

Yeah, RIGHT ON, Jason Peirce was one awesome bass player when I saw the Verve, except he was playing guitar and they were called Spiritualized. weren't they?

Cool, I just entered a bio for My Bloody Valentine. Lets see if they except it? (it's mostly acccurate)

Maybe they were confusing the Verve with Darkside?

you guys have crashed thier site...

Hey, Drownedinsound largely IS written by schoolchildren!

Re the SM3 bio - 'Great Pop Things', anyone?

Yeah, I wrote that review and I'm not a publicist. Neither am I in a Ween cover band. I'm in a band that writes ridiculous songs a la Ween. I do happen to think Remy Zero is very good, especially compared to all the "nu-punk" bullshit that's being slopped around by all the "alternative" kids right now. Drownedinsound IS written primarily by kids who are still in school. We're a review and information site run by fans, so we write and talk about the things we like. The site doesn't generate any money and none of us are paid, so we get to say what we want. If you don't agree with what I have to say, fine. If you think I sound too professional, whatever. Some people really do have emotional responses to music you might not lik

music you might not lik

There's a lot of music I'd rather not lick.

More to the point, I think the objection was not so much over the fact that you like Remy Zero as it is that your review reads like a piece of fluff direct from the record company. The trick is to be positive about something without sounding like you've received a payoff from the band's paymasters.

I actually typed "might not like - (gasp)" but it cut off the rest of it. Licking music might not be so bad, especially if it's printed with that nice soy ink... unless it's been in somebody's moldy instrument case for years.

I knew someone was going to make fun of that.

The things I wrote in the review were the way the album made me feel. The wording was pretty touchy-feely, but again, that's the way it made me feel. If that's fluffy, so be it. Let's see each of you write a review and see if your writing style gets att

that was "attacked" folks. This damn thing keeps cutitng off my posts

that was "attacked" folks. This damn thing keeps cutting off my posts

ugh.

Another hint, Laurie: know who you're dealing with. There are a bunch of music critics in this here joint, and some of us even get paid for it. (Not me, though, although I do get paid for film criticism that I write in German. TOP THAT, KIDDO!)

I have written reviews -- far too many, arguably. ;-) The AMG is chock full of 'em now.

Okay, let me act as editor here -- taking one of yer paragraphs:

Maybe it's something that grows out of people who've known each other for a long time. The guys in Remy Zero have been friends since childhood, and have an easy, family-style relationship that provides an ideal environment in which to nurture creativity.

This is the promo fluff stuff I'm talking about. This is the type of thing that record companies *love* to say about their bands -- 'known each other since they were kids, have struggled together,' etc., all in order to help sell their product as something 'real.' Is it relevant to the music per se? I don't care about whether the bandmembers first met over cafeteria lunches at school playing with Pogs or whatever, as a listener I'm not hearing their life story, but their work.

Also, 'easy family-style relationships' need not be the standard for creativity. Musicians and producers and more can all hate each and come up with some pretty damn good stuff -- and for that part, I know more than a few families whose relationships are the stuff of nightmares. Again, this is an image you're selling here which says little about the music and why we should care as readers of your review.

"The Golden Hum" is the product of an intense year-or-so in their lives together, with their profile growing fast and furious, tours with Travis, their song featured as the theme tune for a new TV show (Smallville, shown at 6 pm, Wednesdays on Channel 4), and general expansion of their horizons.

Again, fluff! Really, that's how it reads -- I'm not saying you're * intending* to read as fluff, but this sounds like eight million band bios from promo flacks, down to the Travis namedropping (and the reference to Smallville feels like clunky advertising).

Their history, combined with all this hustle, has produced (I almost want to say birthed, bred, or something organic like that here) a solidly brilliant album.

Okay, great, you like the album -- but interestingly, you're saying that it's the band's background and work ethic that made a great album. There's no mention of the music! Again, you're selling, however unintentionally, an image, that of the Honest Hardworking Rock Band -- which is very sweet and all, but two plus two does not automatically equal four.

I'm not saying that my own take on your writing is the right one, and others may well find bones to pick with my suggestions. But here's my thought -- you have the passion to talk about bands you like, which is fantastic. But there's more you can do with a review than just act as cheerleader, and to simply revive what are longstanding cliches to explain why you like something so much.

Since you're here now, I'd suggest visiting this board's more-or-less parent site Freaky Trigger for some examples of great essays and reviews. Try the music weblog associated with it in particular, New York London Paris Munich, along with all the associated weblogs and sites linked from it. And then there's this board itself, where you'll find a lot of amazing writing. You'll find a lot of opinions you won't agree with, but look beyond that to see how people are writing, conveying enthusiasm. There's much to love!

I like drowndedinsound better than reading a bunch of *real* paid music critics and german film critics using their innate superiority and rapier-like wits to pick apart some schoolkids' earnest little website. bullies.

NYLPM maybe not the best example since it's not said anything positive about anyone all week as far as I know.

not referring to ned's friendly advice above, just the preceeding snarkiness.

I did not snark. I was responding to my LEAST FAVORITE RESPONSE TO CRITICSIM OF ALL, which is "Let's see YOU do it." And my response will always be: "I've done a lot of things, sugarplum. So what?"

Criticsim = pretending to be a critic, I suppose. Me = getting me coat.

I'm all about the fluff.

Sorry, but it seems to me that comments like "TOP THAT, KIDDO" and "I've done a lot of things, sugarplum. So what?" are about as condescending and patronizing as anything I've ever read on this board.

Oooooh, widdle Fwitzykins finds me con-de-SCEND-ing, eh? Isn't that just too, too pwecious . . .

Both instances ("KIDDO" and "sugarplum") you cited were attempts at self-satirizing irony. Honest. No shit. It's actually no big damn deal to write reviews, and even get paid to do it -- which is why I find the counter-criticism "YOU do it!" so obnoxious, as it implies that the very act of doing (reviews, paintings, music, etc) is so very special that any criticism directed toward it is a result of envy or lack of comprehension.

I would also like to point out that I have not yet offered any criticism of Laurie's work, only of her argument.

Laurie: no offense was meant. I actually find your article extremely well-written -- just not critical in tone.

I don't see how infantilizing someone else (eg. calling them "Kiddo" or "sugarplum") is self-satirizing or ironic. It just makes you sound like an asshole.

I win!! I WIN!!!!!

That is the worst music site I've ever seen.
No, melodicrock.com is still worse. Hell, it has the word "crock" right in its name, ferchrissakes!

But seriously, Fritz: your last response delineates EXACTLY how such language can be self-satirizing. Do you honestly not understand where I'm coming from, or are you being argumentative?

Lord Custos is spot on, today on melodicrock.com, we find out f-ing Toto are back for 2002.

STEVE LUKATHER SAYS NEW TOTO ALBUM IS KILLER!: I mailed Steve Lukather for my usual Toto album update and got another great reply. Steve said: "Things are great. The new CD is killer....It's all good here and I am very excited about the new CD. I just wish we could agree on a title. That's real hard and then the cover art and then we gotta get this sucker out before the summer so our work is cut out for us!" On the subject of recent record label upheavals and the band's own decision to go it alone, Steve added: "Fuck all these major labels. I predict they will all be dead in 5 years. Licensing is the future. That's what were doing territory by territory. I don't need some asswipe, zit faced 20 year old A+R puke telling ME how to make records!"

Unbelievable - Toto go indie ! - after years on major labels. Can anyone think of a title for Toto's upcoming opus?

"Straight outta' Kansas" ?

well, caninecally speaking.

I do know what you're talking about, but communicating that kind of irony on the web can be difficult.

To the author it is obvious enough - "Ha Ha! This makes me sound like an asshole, and I know I am not an asshole so the irony is apparent."

To the reader it is not so obvious - "This guy sounds like an asshole."

Anyway, I've had posts that I meant as self-mocking interpreted as insulting to others in the past too. No need for us to argue about it.

Fair 'nuff.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean????

just kiddin'

Fritz is a cute name.

Yeah, Fritz is the dreamiest, we've already established that. ;-)

That was my first ILM emoticon, I think! I feel like Dickon after he said "riff". Or was it "lick"?

More importantly--hello Laurie, hope you stick around.

shucks

Hey there

aww shuddup you bunch of miserable fucks :-) I know the quality of the writing is a bit shall we say varied, but we do have some good writers (check out david merryweather/tom eyers/various others on the staff list), and the whole thing is more about enthusiasm for the music scene than smart arse professional comments. having said that our better reviews are being printed in a 20,000 distribution free music paper that we're working with (probemusic). and we provide useful features like gig listings for london and various other towns in the uk, band profiles, database of new releases etc.

i'm the webmaster, by the way. I might like to add that that cheesy 'our philosophy' thing was not my responsibility...hehe. It's also due for the scrapheap when I put up the new index page/layout (coming soon). but anyway. bye.

aww shuddup you bunch of miserable fucks :-)

DAMMIT. ;-) This is the type of spirit I like.

I know the quality of the writing is a bit shall we say varied

Ah, no worries, we all have our faves and unfaves on certain sites -- you should see the arguments over Pitchfork.

the whole thing is more about enthusiasm for the music scene than smart arse professional comments.

It's good to have a goal -- but remember, positive need not mean obsequious!

i'm the webmaster, by the way. I might like to add that that cheesy 'our philosophy' thing was not my responsibility...hehe. It's also due for the scrapheap when I put up the new index page/layout (coming soon).

Hurrah!

Ah hah! Well, I was having a terrible day yesterday (I got splashed from head to toe in piss-puke-shit gutter water by a bus, one of my chemical reacitons failed, I logged onto the internet and found that everyone from here to kingdom come seemed to be insulting my article), but the messages I see today make me feel a lot better. :) I was being a little snarky myself with the "let's see you do it" comment--but I don't know this board, all I saw was a bunch of sarcastic people ripping the piss out of my article. Now however, I see that you're not all so mean. ;) Thanks for the advice/constructive criticism Ned! That was really helpful. I'm a chemist--I've had English courses and writing courses, but most of the writing I've been educated in has been thematic analysis (e.g. finding stange attitudes towards women in the old testament, etc.). I guess that's sorta what I do when i review things too, and so it strays from the ultimate point of a review (talking about the music).

It's really helpful to be reminded that a review of an album should focus more on the MUSIC, rather than having to tell the story of the band.

Say, Colin-- I am actually doing something that could beat you: I'm curing cancer in my PhD project in medicinal chemistry. So there! ;) ;) ;) (notice the lots of winking, to communicate that I am being cheeky and kidding rather than trying to insult... etc...)

:)

"finding strange attitudes towards women in the old testament" >>> perfect training for writing abt rap, R&B, indie, jazz, electronica, old skool rock, etc

;);););););););););););););););););););););););););););););)

actually i'm quite serious

Hmmm, yes the way my brain works makes it so I'm probably better at writing about things i don't like. Then I can really pick them apart and compare bits to other things, stuff like that. When I like something, I just like it--and I get all shiny and smiley about it and it feels like I make it dirty if I point out little things that are wrong with it.

Drownedinsound reviewed me favourably so I luv them

Thanks for the advice/constructive criticism Ned! That was really helpful.

No worries! But don't just rely on my thoughts, there are plenty of others here who can offer them up.

Laurie... I'm the ogre who struck up this thread, and I heartily concur with these others that you should stick around... a large portion of the dialogue here seems to be mean-spiritied shit-talking and insulting each other, and I don't think we'd have it any other way. Feel free to jump into any battle, I think you've more than earned your wings!

Laurie, if you stick around after all those rotten things we said, someday I might even let you fondle my heart.

Awww, thanks! It's good for me to get a bit of a kicking and get my feathers ruffled up once in a while. I'm a "nice" girl, I come from Minnesota where everyone is earnest, liberal, and very nice to each other. I don't have much interaction with people who let me know they think I'm full of shit. I'm sure there are plenty of people who think that, they just never tell me. So kick away, and I'll learn to take it AND give it out better. ;)

I'm a "nice" girl, I come from Minnesota

Hey, another Minnesota person. :-) That makes at least three now, since we also have Dan Perry and a fellow US expat now in UK, Suzy. Y'all need to swap notes.

I used to live right around the corner from there, in Manitoba (hey, it starts with an M and ends with an a). I understand the earnest attitude, too. Biggest problem when first moving to the big bad east: recognizing that people can tell you yer full of crap and still think you're all right.