FCC & "Decency"

.. And (I haven't thought this out to see if it's possible) try not to use/quote the First Amendment as an argument. Of course the First Amendment applies here - but use your own head... pretend that protection doesn't exist. The question is, "What is decent, and do we have the right to not be offended?"

She should be banned for being a frigid harpy

i'm guessing their stations don't play Peaches then?

Or sued for libel by Foxy Brown.

saeah jones is one fo the few hip hop artists i dont find offensive,

misogyny != revolutionary. Brilliant analysis.

Brilliant Lyrics. None of the B-boys grasped what wass going on in Queen Latifah's "U.N.I.T.Y" because it was too subtle. This song puts in more brutal, less comprimising language.

She should be banned for being a frigid harpy

The entire point of the Free Speech Provisions to the First Amendment of the Constitution pretty much mean that [Legistlators] really can't "Ban" any kind of speech. All [Legistlators] really can do is rebut it. All [Legistlators] really should do is rebut it. If [Legistlators] can't make a decent rebuttal then their POV must be incomplete or oversimplified.
(The insertion of the word Legislators is intentional. I originally wrote "you" but that just sounds like I'm bickering/flaming/trolling rather than making a coherent statement.)

Actually (speaking as a Yank) I frankly think the First Amendment removes any justification for the existence of the FCC.
I can't think of a single thing they've ever done that has improved the live of Americans in any way. We should abolish the FCC.

Yeah, right: abolish the FCC and get on with the signal wars, wherein Clearchannel just out-broadcasts everyone else on every frequency with a droning voice that says "Buy Pepsi ... buy Pepsi ..?" The FCC is the mechanism via which we as citizens "own" the airwaves, and the fact that it's an oft-pathetic mechanism is basically the opposite of a reason for trying to tear it down.

Ahem. I think the song plays into the classic mistaken-offensiveness routine: it mentions delicate or "offensive" topics in the service of arguing against them, in certain ways, and so some listeners are too busy being offended by the specifics to realize that they probably agree with the message as a whole. Blaming this track for being offensive is the equivalent of blaming the person who was offended by it for repeating its lyrics in order to condemn it. It's like hearing Gale say "I don't approve of the word 'fuck'" and then telling Gale how offensive her language is.

(The above best evidenced during Tipper Gore's 80s heyday, when groups of concerned middle-aged men and women would hunch over lyric sheets and be horrified by their content even when the songs themselves were clearly mocking that content. Later example: furor over Reznor and "Big Man with a Gun" -- had none of these upset idiots ever noticed that the phrase "big man with a gun" is, in all 20th-century American culture, used solely to mock people who think their firearms make them important?)

(I.e., that Reznor was in every sense agreeing with them?)

what was the furor over 'big man and a gun'? i've never heard of it.

It got press attention as a sort-of semi-sequel to the whole "Cop Killer" thing, two years on. Trent himself said it was supposed to be a parody of gangsta rap, go figure.

that sounds really, really annoying.

abolish the FCC and rock/rap will go back to being like they were before the FCC

The example Nitsuh gave is proof that these censorship groups and their supporters are motivated by ignorance of contemporary pop music as much as anything else.

I mean does anyone complain about "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die". Not that I can remember. Good Ol' Johnny, he's not offensive is he?

ronan stop stealing arguments from dee snider.

I always thought the song was a modernist tract on the dehumanzation of technology mixed with a teen-poetry description of a nervous breakdown.

In any case, Foxy Brown deserves none of the things that Your Revolution sez about her.

abolish the FCC and rock/rap will go back to being like they were before the FCC

Hunh? What kind of logic is that? The FCC predates rap.

Yeah, right: abolish the FCC and get on with the signal wars, wherein Clearchannel just out-broadcasts everyone else on every frequency with a droning voice that says "Buy Pepsi ... buy Pepsi ..?" The FCC is the mechanism via which we as citizens "own" the airwaves, and the fact that it's an oft-pathetic mechanism is basically the opposite of a reason for trying to tear it down.

Eeeeernt! I'm sorry, but that was the wrong answer.
The FCC would do ab-so-lutel-lee nothing to stop that from happening. In fact, they spend all their time (when their not poking their nose into other peoples music and magazine and pronouncing their inane, ill-informed, irrelevant and un-asked for opinions on it) busting pirate radio stations...the only ones playing interesting music.

Custos lies. Clearchannel owns two GRATE Chicago-area stations, at least.

& as for the FCC and rap, it's sinker-logic, which is better than normal logic.

exactly: no FCC => no rap

use yer head!!

(what is the fcc?)

Operating under a more moderate CRTC (same responsibilities as FCC) it does serve a purpose for protection of radio signals. Recent battle over 15,000 watt CIUT watts was a good example of why a governing body for radio/TV should exist. They also keep an eye on radio stations who fail to keep logs and other such legal responsibilities.
One of my favorite is they stop larger commercial stations from swallowing up stations around them with their signals. They screw up from time to time but generally do a good job. Heck we got our version of the low power fm license and is currently still in testing phase.
Someone broke a law, they got caught, they got fined. Not a big fan of the law they broke myself but the FCC did what it seems to have done in the past. Id rather someone in Portland take the carrot out of their ass but I'll just have to hope someday.
CRTC homepage, a lesson on how to hide information on a website.

Also, the main reason I wont watch the Super bowl is cause we dont get to see the ads. Here is why. This is what counts for New Updates on government webpages. Being a civil servant webmaster must be a barrel of monkeys.

― Mr Noodles, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nitsuh - don't you think the 'mocking' examples are a trifle disingenuous? Of course Reznor SAYS "Big Man" is a satire, but he MUST know that a lot of people will 'miss the point', intentionally or not, and if he doesn't know that he's an idiot, and if he does, he's overestimatinghis Wildean gifts. Free speech is axiomatic, but let's at least keep in the mind the percentage of time it's used to justify a) deliberate exploitation or b) sloppiness in execution, the latter especially.

Big Man wasn't a radio signal, but party of a truly depressive album where it could hardly be read "straight" in the course of the whole flow of songs.

I've actually never heard the song, but c'mon: the very phrase "big man with a gun" is used pretty much exclusively in the ironic "oh, you think you're a big man now?" sense. The regulators see the content (uh-oh, a gun!) but they're not a part of the culture that listens to the music, and so they miss the context. I practically guarantee that those offended by "Your Revolution" didn't realize that the song is fighting part of the same fight they are -- against exploitation and misogyny.

Cutos: I don't understand your argument. My whole point was that the FCC does things like shutting down pirate radio stations -- part of their job is to regulate the airwaves, licensing specific frequencies. That's why saying "abolish the FCC" is just sort of dumb, since, in the absence of any other regulatory body, it'd just be airwave-anarchy, in which whoever had the strongest transmitter could wash us in whatever content they wanted. Just because you don't like the way something is regulated doesn't mean it shouldn't be regulated -- it just means it should be regulated differently, a statement I would completely stand by w/r/t the FCC.

(Mark S: as you've probably gathered, the Federal Communications Commission is charged with regulating ostensibly publically-owned communications mediums, including television and radio airwaves. Music types tend to get all hissy at them because they impose decency standards on public airwaves and crack down on illegal broadcasting. These types unfortunately tend to have very little idea what else the FCC actually does, and thus like to pretend it's some kind of censorship commission as opposed to looking into its more political dealings [last year's battle on low-power transmissions was covered in The Nation, not Rolling Stone] and rightly criticizing it for those.)

That should be Custos -- apologies, m'lord.

Apologies accepted.

The point I'm trying to make is that the FCC is supposed to ensure that radio works correctly. But behind the scenes its run by a bunch of creeps more interested in the controlling the CONTENT of the radio signal. Its one thing to bust a radio station for trying to broadcast on someone elses frequency...its quite another to shut down a completely legit radio station (albiet one with a weak, 'pirate radio'- strength signal) for broadcasting unpleasant truths on a frequency that they legally bought and paid for.
Quoting George Carlin (and yes, I did re-check these facts elsewhere, so despite being a comedian, he was telling the truth) "The FCC, an appointed body -- not elected, answerable only to the president -- decided all on its own that 'Radio and Television are the only two portions of American life not protected by the Free Speech provisions of the First Amendment to the Constitution.' I'd I like to repeat that because it sounds vaguely important. 'Radio and Television are the only two portions of American life not protected by the Free Speech provisions of the First Amendment to the Constitution.' "

Cutos: I don't understand your argument. My whole point was that the FCC does things like shutting down pirate radio stations -- part of their job is to regulate the airwaves, licensing specific frequencies.
Yes, and if you say something they don't approve of, they yank the license you paid for and hands it over to (Right Wing Talk Show Host Talk Radio Station | Gospel Station) even if you don't cuss or play rap records.
That's why saying "abolish the FCC" is just sort of dumb, since, in the absence of any other regulatory body, it'd just be airwave-anarchy, in which whoever had the strongest transmitter could wash us in whatever content they wanted.
Okay, to be diplomatic lets say this:...because the FCC -- theoretically -- serves a useful technical function, lets keep the organization but get rid of the losers currently running it. And make it abundantly clear what their job really is. They aren't in the Political Lobbying/Content Censorship business, they are just the people who hand out frequencies. Thats it.
(The content-quality/signal to noise ratio issue is a discussion for a whole 'nuther thread. A local radio station with a few thousand watts would do a better job, I think, of giving the locals what they want then some 'demographically correct' clone station that pumps out ten bazillion watts. But thats just me.)
Just because you don't like the way something is regulated doesn't mean it shouldn't be regulated -- it just means it should be regulated differently, a statement I would completely stand by w/r/t the FCC.

Ooops...Just realized that Nitsuh wasn't done talking and I hit Submit too soon.

Just because you don't like the way something is regulated doesn't mean it shouldn't be regulated -- it just means it should be regulated differently, a statement I would completely stand by w/r/t the FCC.
The thing that really kills me is that some ultra-new tech (Broadband digital) and ultra-old tech (UHF TV) could've been a cozy place for underground/local/independant media, but instead, the FCC (and other related US regulatory bodies) have "sold" these to big corporations who only hold onto them so that underground/local/independant media CANT use them. There used to be pro-people laws that make it abundantly clear that some of the local airwaves are supposed to available for local, small time use, but instead, Global Multinational Megalocorps are *GIVEN* these airwaves and communcation channels *FOR FREE*. Because the GloboMultiMegas pretty much *OWN* Congress in the US. Thats why Korn, Limp Bisquik and Creed are now our "underground" culture. Big money *HAS* blotted out other voices...*BECAUSE* the FCC regulates the airwaves *WRONG*.

Nitsuh is dead wrong. Good liberal he is, he as always trusts big guv'ment too much. Whe had some argument some while back over hate crimes where the bottom line wuz "do you trust ashcroft?" and the same holds for this decency stuff. In other words, those trying to censor this "dirty" language are v. often not womens-libbers (tho there are the dworkin types whose calls for censorship FEED INTO their powers) but rather straight-out white-male power structure types who aren't particularly pro-woman, but rather censor things because they're pro-Jesus. All of which is not to detract from the fact that I think "Your Revolution" is a v. limited song, as far as content goes.

This is a bit off topic. But what does 'Nitsuh' mean anyway. I don't mean "What is he Talking about?"...I mean what does the WORD Nitsuh, MEAN. Is it Hustin backwards?

It's this thing.

It means 'bad-ass indie mofo.' He has been known to hunt and kill in order to find lost Elephant 6-related singles.

I think I've heard this song! I didn't like it.

no FCC paves way for Nicky D's PORN RADIO! the revolution will be grunted over FM radio!

no I am kidding. Sterling, Custos: I hear ya. It doesn't seem like the FCC does much to promote the public weal other than force 15-second public service announcements on stations who decide to play them at 3am. But they do more than that. As Nitsuh noted they are one of the few government voices opposing consolidation of the media markets. In fact, the chairman of the FCC a couple of years ago was the main mover behind trying to license micro-broadcasters (stations of less than 100 watts), but he was shot down by Congress (= American Broadcasting Association lobbyists)!

Tracer -- A) I'm not saying the FCC is primarily censorship or nuthn -- just that the "public good" of the censorship actions they do undertake is based on christian morality, not feminist morality.

Also, yr. wrong on the chronology of microradio -- the FCC's been a consistant obstacle, and even the microradio licenses they're allowed to grant are v. difficult to get.

...straight-out white-male power structure types...

Actually, the FCC is currently run by Michael Powell, son of Secretary of State Colin Powell (nepotism, anyone?). So I'd guess he's more of a "straight-out black-male power structure type."

ahem.

Wow, two threads that mention NIN today. I am almost in tears. From what I recall, Big Man with a Gun seemed to get lopped in with a lot of post-NWA gangsta rap, actually it might have been around when Bodycount's Cop Killer blew up. Mainly, I think the point was so that Bob Dole (who actually read the lyrics aloud at a press conference!) and Tipper could fend off the implication that they were targeting rap music, hence targeting blacks. Trent later said he regreted putting the song on there at all, not because of the controversy, but because it wasn't very good.

As Nitsuh noted they are one of the few government voices opposing consolidation of the media markets.
Iiiii'm not so sure about that. They were defintely pro-merger back in the days of Reagan/Bush, and they didn't do anything to stop the Media Conglomerates from coming in swallowing huge chunks of HDTV bandwidth either (almost forgot about that one) and pissing it away.

Sterling it was at the FCC's behest that the issue of low-power radio is even being discussed. They saw potential constitutional issues with a minimum wattage requirement. Congress, bought and paid for by the ABA, does not see such issues. To see everything the FCC has done to promote microbroadcasting (and to apply for a permit!) check out their page about it. Lots of good stuff there.

Custos I don't doubt that there are some bad apples at the FCC and way too much bureaucracy there. But the consolidation of media markets has happened despite the FCC's recommendations, not because of them.

All I know are the trials and travails that various pirates back on the west coast have been put thru, and those I don't remember v. well, except that somehow the bill doesn't open things up to them right, leaving space open for bigger players to grab the bandwitdth anyway & stuff.

just that the "public good" of the censorship actions they do undertake is based on christian morality, not feminist morality.
And this is better...how?
And what kind of nonsense is the phrase "Feminist Morality" anyway?

Feminist morality = "porn degrades women". Christian morality = "porn serves satan". & I'm not being normative, just an analytical gadfly.

Sterl, "pirates" = illegal!

I don't see why we can't do the "not till 9pm" thing over here on the radio vis a vis PORN RADIO

Yeah, but they kept TRYING to go legal.

There should be a watchdog to monitor and ban stuff with overtly feminist content.

(a) Sterling and Custos you are MISUNDERSTANDING me. I'm not saying I have any love for FCC policy. I just thought it was a silly knee-jerk to say "abolish it," just like it would be a silly knee- jerk to decide cops suck and ask for them to be gotten rid of.

(b) There is actually a very good legalism wrapped up in the decency standards of airwaves: the airwaves are ostensibly publically owned, and only licensed to their users. "Publically owned" = public standards of decency. I am not saying that the FCC's actual operations serve this purpose well, only that the logic behind it is completely sound: you are not entitled to absolute free speech when occupying someone else's forum.

(c) "Nitsuh" means clear, clean, or pure, like high-quality water. It was my grandfather's choice.

"Nitsuh" means clear, clean, or pure, like high-quality water.

At least they didn't name you Aquafina or Perrier.

Well, his whole name is Perrier Aquafina Nitsuh. And his sisters name is Evian. And she married a flamenco dancer and became Evian Gonzalez.

There should be a watchdog to monitor and ban stuff with overtly feminist content.
Geez, dave, I hope this is sarcasm.
Who defines what 'Feminist' means? Gloria Steinem or The Promise Keepers?
We shouldn't try to ban any groups opinions just because we disagree with them. Especially for something as petty as gender.
Musically, I prefer women singers to men singers. And if a 'No Feminists Allowed' clause is enforced, then it opens the door for all kinds of other silly bans to be enfored. Then i suspect in 20 years the radio will all be an endless sea of annoying white male country singers singing gospel.

Especially for something as petty as gender

The first time I read that I thought you wrote "..as pretty as gender.." - which would be kinda funny.

I agree with Nitsuh - that the airwaves are owned by the people - so the airwaves could be held to the "public standard" of common decency. And the FCC just may be out of touch on what is decent. And the greater context should be considered. For instance, "bush" is not necessarily offensive - unless put in a larger context like, "douche in my bush." But then, put that into the even larger context of what the song is about, and it becomes (maybe) innoffensive again. Just as nudity can't be shown on television - unless it's anthropological.

yesyes must regulate airwaves -- but who gets to do it? FCC must be done away with & replaced.

I vote that it gets to be regulated by Jerry Falwell. Either him or Anthony Michael Hall.

Maybe it should be regulated by market forces. i.e. - if you don't like it, don't listen to it.

I vote that it gets to be regulated by Jerry Falwell.
Falwell? FALWELL?! Are You NUTS?! or are you trolling me?
I want the powers that be in radio to be pragmatic and sensible. Falwell is exactly the kind of senseless and dogmatic twit that convinces the FCC to commit pointless and unconstitutional crimes to the public airwaves in the first place!
The only difference between Falwell and Donald Wildmon is that Falwell is subtler.
This has to be trolling. Moderate parent post down to -2 for Pure Eeeeeevil.

Either him or Anthony Michael Hall.
I dunno ' bout that. He'd just institute an "all Molly Ringwald, all the time" station. Which might not be so bad. Except that she never put out any music, and I hope to God she never does.

Woohoo! I killed another Thread!

Goodgod, man... It was a joke. Falwell is sooo passe.. Al Sharpton - now that's the guy.

Sorry, was listening to a Jello Biafra Spoken Word screed that day and it made me completely paranoid.
But in all seriousness...what would Anthony Michael Hall do?

what would Anthony Michael Hall do?

Lawdy Lawdy, Lord C:

A prime rule of comedy, guys with three names are funny/pathetic. Phillip Michael Thomas, John Cameron Swayze, Billy Bob Thornton,. ... I could have chosen any of them.

Ah, you missed my counter-sarcasm. I'm not asking "Oh, what would Anthony Michael Hall do (thats worth doing?)"; I'm asking for a scenario of what [BOOMING VOICE FROM VALHALLA]ANTHONY...MICHAEL...HALLLLL[/BOOMING VOICE FROM VALHALLA] would do in his official function as head of the FCC? (I made a stab with the Molly Ringwald stuff...but that was just to dumb to be amusing.) Let's hear your scenario.

(Drumming fingers. Checks watch.)
No. Really. What would Anthony Michael Hall *do* as head of the FCC?