Electro-house bobbins 1996

Though this is a great mp3!

Is it just that electro-house has crossed over to an "indie" audience in a way that deep house or tribal house weren't able to? Is it that people talk about it as if it were futuristic (which is more true of microhouse than electro-house)?

this is why i started a new thread, instead of putting it on the electrohouse 2005 thread. i am trying to be less polemical in my old age.

to answer your question tim: i think current electro-house is sort of monotonous. there seems to be an insistence on bleakness and greyness and seriousness that just doesn't do it for me.

i blame 9/11.

or, as scott p of pitchfork puts it, "One of the highlights of his Alcachofa album, the Chilean ex-pat's woozy, weak vocodered voice sounds even more ominous and mournful among the near-gothic tones of Mayer's mix." oh joy!! i just came in my pants!!

the freeform five misch masch mix looks great, for example! i hated the tiefschwarz misch masch mix (SO! BORING!) but this one has that indie-disco thing going on in a big way (simian mobile disco!), and you rightly noted the resemblance to my beloved glimmer twins.

i want to see people mix it up with the proles: where is subliminal? southern fried? sound division? azuli? club tools?

I think I've already said this on another thread, but the Moonbootica mix makes them out to be the Fatboy Slim of electro-house (a lot of the tracks even sound like big beat).

Also did you ever hear that Uno Records mix? You would love it I think!

"seriously though, i think the "indie" crossover is a two-way thing. i'm not so skeptical on the idea of indie listeners getting into electrohouse as i am skeptical of indie values creeping into dance music: you end up with the noxious boring-ness of current swayzak and so on."

I kinda know what you mean but do you have any other specific examples? Esp. "indie in an actively bad sense" rather than in an "indie in an enjoyable but worrying-for-the-future" sense.

and get physical i think of as the poker flat of 2004 - an intellectual veneer over house with all the fun bits stripped out (haha do you recognize that phrase? i am STEALING IT from YOUR description of chicken lips, tim!)

I guess it depends on yr definition of "fun": does it necessitate really big piano riffs or divas or choruses or all of the above, or does it reside in some feeling of intensity which the music generates (you might say that even by the latter definition these labels don't do it for you but then we're just dealing with subjective difference of opinion whereas I'm more interested in what we can agree upon here).

Poker Flat '02 is pretty minimal yes but on the Volume 2 and Volume 3 mixes there's a really strong undercurrent of propulsive energy which the grooves build up and pass on to one another - stuff like Jeff Bennett's "Last Breath" or Steve Bug's "That's What I Like (F*** a Duck Mix)" has a really propulsive groove to it that I just can't help but smiling at. The Get Physical Mix is similar but more consistently so and with even more brazenly large hooks and riffs and so on. It's very fun!

Whereas my feeling about that specific period of Chicken Lips was that it was painstakingly recreating a certain sound with little regard for the physical effect of the end-product, Get Physical is almost the other way round, blatantly stealing from old stuff to make the best dancefloor grooves.

X-post: Sam I think Vahid means "indie" in the sense of indie labels, intellectualism, record collector obscurantism, autuerism, fear of pop and the masses etc. as opposed to the White Stripes

But yeah a new name. It's hard innit, it sort has to encompass yr Tiefschwarzes and Black Strobes but also stuff like Superpitcher, Mat Jonson and Villalobos. Mmm, let's call it house. :)

(I don't get the hating on the Tiefschwarz mix. Technically not all that, but a very cool selection.)

And that's what lifts it above the leaden plod of subliminal style house (which I'm sorry has absolutely NO "good honest prole" attraction for me - it's like mid-90s strictly rhythm - relentless in its averageness).

But one of the great things about electrohouse is its rehabilitation of techno from the fashion ghetto and the eventual melding of techno, glitch and italo style sounds into a well-rounded assimilation of artyness into partyness (to nick a great phrase from above)

Have you heard Egoexpress - Knartz IV?

"Oh my god, it's techno music!" KNNNERRRRRRRRRRRR BASH BASH BASH BASH

Prole, unashamedly banging, vaguely electrohouse and just bloody great, that is. Like a middle ground between Chris Liberator and Isolee or something.

Soujthern Fried have been pushing a more (fun) electro direction with some acts since 2003! Cagedbaby (2nd single and various remixes), AB/DC, the Fantastic Plastic Machine mix on the Markus Nikolai reissue, that record that covered Elastica or Elastica covering The Wire or something, maybe even the forthcoming Van Helden record.

I was somewhat certain Azuli had put out an electro comp recently, but could be confused.

Tim reaffirms himself as my fave ILMer by actually trying to convince vahid (and myself, by extension), with evidence, instead of just trying to sweep his/my beliefs aside. Still want to hear that Uno Records mix!

i could also list good things about certain indie values creeping into dance music: eclecticism for one.

otm.

I don't understand how they can be intellectualised, they never say or do anything, and the music is just about one simple melody and disco drums, for the most part. Alot of the GPM stuff is really good safe bet first song of the night music aswell. GPM is popular, that's what I'm trying to say, I guarantee GPM outsells Southern Fried, Azuli, etc, so this mix it up with the proles thing is rubbish.

The eclecticism thing just bores me a bit if it's like a rule, I like some DJs who play bits of everything but by no means should any be obliged to, and in any case I think the genre which we now call "electrohouse" is so massive that internally there are hundreds of different ways to do it. I know this because of the glut of shit electrohouse nights which are now emerging in Dublin! Or the fact that bad bigroom house music is now labelled electrohouse in some of these places.

I think Telegram Sam is absolutely otm. Electrohouse is a big success, in my opinion, because dance music had become so unfashionable and in many ways boring. The whole anti-pop thing is so big in every genre except house really, and house's popism had basically become "I want to fuck you and create a sexually uncomfortable vibe in nightclubs" (still plenty of this around).

Now even labels like Kompakt have a definite pop feel running through them, even if the sounds aren't explicitly pop there is a real character there and there's all the cover versions etc.

I think Simon said on his blog at the time of the last discussion on this stuff, something about dance genres effectively dying when the pop element in them (presumably a broad definition of pop) goes away, and I think that's where electrohouse has thrived, I mean look at other genres which are supposedly futurist and serious now, hard techno? I don't think electrohouse, because of the few genres which converged to lead to its existence, eg house, electoclash, even minimal, will easily become ghettoised/anti-pop.

These genres have ALL lived as the opposition to "techno is the one true futurist serious genre, all pop is shit" for years, the fans and DJs aren't going to bring electrohouse down that road, and yet they've found, and we find ourselves now enjoying, a very very good medium between some of those staunch purist ideas and the mainstream, and the dancefloor.

The thread where Vahid complained (and I'm paraphrasing so feel free to correct me if I'm misrepresenting you Vahid) that electro-house/microhouse etc. was to dance music as nerdy white indie rap strikes me as capturing the essence of his complaint. And the thing is I can maybe understand it in relation to stuff like Villalobos and Luciano (who I love but I can see them as being dance music for IDMers) but... trying to distinguish between say Soma and then Poker Flat and *especially* Get Physical on the other in this regard... I'm just not sure how the complaint maps onto an actually clearly demarcated difference in approach, aesthetic, audience etc.

But I don't want you to feel like I'm dismissing yr position Vahid, I find it immensely interesting and want to understand it better.

I think in Australia there are now three levels of populism:
1)the filter versions of 80s hits which get into the charts eg. Catch a Falling Star, the Fleetwood Mac "Everywhere" remix, "Owner of a Lonely Heart" etc.
2) All the chunky, hook-laden house/tech-house/electro-house which are all on the same level (if Subliminal don't get played as much now as in 02/03 it's because they're not pumping out any inspired tunes on a regular basis any more) and are often played interchangably
3) the "specialist" pursuits like "proper" techno, ultra deep house, and one-bar-loop tech-house, which all have their own strictly devoted nights and are the real essence of anti-populism insofar as they almost always stridently reject tunes and hooks. And of course other peripheral scenes like drum & bass etc.

Siegbran have you got any new mixes???!

Aside from Tiefschwarz, I also find I can't really get into Alex Smoke. B-b-b-but I still trust you implicitly, Tim! ;)

(but then I have no idea how you keep up with dancehall/d'n'b like you do, either)

xpost: ha well dancehall i have pretty much given up on outside of the greensleeves connection and anything anyone says "omg you MUST hear this." as for dnb, i do spend a lot of time tracking down new dj sets, but i have my column do for pfork this weekend and i havent even begun tracking down new records yet.

Heh, and I have trouble even tracking down the stuff you DO wind up mentioning, so it can't be an easy job.

1. benny benassi - satisfaction
2. vitalic - la rock 01
3. who da funk - shiny disco balls
4. blackstrobe - me and madonna
5. tomaz v filterheadz - sunshine
6. harry "choo choo" romero - keep your head up
7. cosmos - take me with you
8. alter ego - rocker
9. klonhertz - three girl rhumba
10. ?????

these are the electro-house tunes i can think of off the top of my head that have made any sort of widespread club impact ... i have tried to leave off anything that you could easily call "electroclash" (like felix + miss kittin) ... as you'll note, this peaked a few years ago, from our perspective ...

i feel you on this tim, but this is really so subjective ... i am sure there is no tune on the get physical label which is going to ignite dancefloors in california the same way cyndi lauper's "girls just wanna have fun" or snoop's "beautiful" or daft punk's "around the world" does (to name three anthems from my neighborhood clubs off the top of my head) ... at the end of the day, it's not just basslines and mentasms and drum programming is it? it's about some sort of "social energy" (for lack of a better word) and where i'm coming from chicken lips have it and get physical don't!

Lucky you.

x post

i don't listen to much u.s. house anymore either which actually makes me sad because some close friends are djs/producers and i run at the mouth about perlon. (they like perlon too, but that's not the point) and anyway, i would like to support the home team as it were (music is not a contest i know), but i just like a lot of the german stuff.

woah, xpost-ville

some european records have drum programming or sounds that are amazing, too. the drum programming on "geht's noch?" blows me away. there is one 16 bar break near the middle of the track that makes me crazy!!

roman flugel is a massive dan bell fan and i think his drum programming usually has a bit of that kind of US flavour to it. the first time i heard 'geht's noch' i was convinced it was a dan bell track.

and yes, many euro records do have amazing drums but i guess it's that swing that you mention that i sometimes miss.

the perhaps-too-simple-and-overly-pat answer: because disco hits in the US in a way that acid house doesn't, because ESG and madonna are always going to be bigger in our consciousness than phuture and trax records and "oochy koochy" and 808 state and so on.

this may be an unbridgeable cultural divide (witness ronan v james blount!)

Okay but this distinction rests on a very selective reading of Get Physical (ie. "Time Out (Acid Dub)" but not "Philly", "Freemind", "I Don't Know" etc.). I know that Get Physical are sounding less and less discoid, but their earlier stuff (which is the stuff they have belatedly received all the attention for via the 2nd anniversary mix) is much closer to early Madonna than Chicken Lips are!!!

Jess's mea culpa re the Get Physical mix is pretty instructve here - I imagine Jess (and please correct me if I'm wrong Jess) had an idea of what it would sound like and then was surprised by how POP it all is.

Vahid there's quite a cute little book about the sorts of styles you're talking about - more scene-focused than music-focused, but nice nonetheless. It's called "Rave America" by Mireille Silcott. Does a couple of chapters on Wicked et al.

I have to say, also, that some of my favourite tapes ever are the ones I picked up in california from around 93-94 - Jeno, Galen, Steve Loria etc.

This is a brilliant idea though and you should definitely do it.

i love the early west coast house stuff too.

In Sydney ( as far as I can tell as someone who doesn't get out often) there seems to be some crossover between the electro and breaks scenes, and I think breaks format also helps DJs with their problem of elite vs popular, future vs tradition, eclectic vs purist, as Tim has said electro does in the other list. In breaks case because it's based around a particular rhythm rather than a sound. But breaks seems to be one of those scenes that doesn't inspire many lists or blogs.

xpost: haha yeah i always feel like such a shut-in on the dance threads

I'd disagree, based on my listenings to early Chicken Lips via their DJ Magazine mix and the 2nd Anniversary comp for a large portion of last year. Where the Lips were more fuggy and borrowed heavily from early 80s NYC alt-disco sounds, the GP sound was more cleanly produced, with a more electronic edge, but fact is, at their early stages, both were pretty disco, with the Lips being closer to ESG than GP were.

The fact GPM is based in Berlin and is very current of course changes that but as I said, sonically and aesthetically Chicken Lips belong far more to the "house is a proud tradition which we are keeping pure" gang (see also the Freaks, maybe it's an English thing, always crashing someone elses party!).

I think the point about "the swing" is interesting, I do think the chances of that gap being bridged are kind of slim to none, now, I'd be quite ok with this except that there is a real danger of US house just dying off, and that'd be a shame.

I do like to throw on a Mark Farina or Derrick Carter CD at work, or like, old Eric Kupper stuff like off Eskimo II, I think anyone who's ever really loved house music would have to have some sort of regret if that sound is to totally die off.

But I guess there's not alot you can do really. Chelonis seems to be the only connection to black America in the entire scene.

that is cool and i agree but frankly i hanker for electrohouse that is based on "rock to the beat" (which is the void subliminal / soma et al fill for me) or "mystery of love" or "waiting for my angel" (i have no idea which electrohouse labels are doing gushy stuff like that so i stick to deep tribal house instead)

GET ONE UNO RECORDS MIX.

Vahid I may have to burn a copy and send it to you at this rate.

mmm, only one component methinks. I notice the weird drumprogramming esp. in breakdowns of bobbins tracks is a bit underrated (at least that was what immediatly struck me as different compared to yr "straight-up house/techno". For instance: Tiefschwarz - 'Something More rmx', Eulberg's 'Die Rotbauchunken vom Tegernsee', Golden Red's 'Tumble', Coburn's 'We Interrupt...', etc, etc, there's this euphoria of getting sucked into a rhythmic vortex or something like that.)

I agree of course. It's just that I was trying to bring some balance to the force...err...I mean the pleasure of electrohouse.

YES! How awesome is this track!?! I love how it's mixed in after Dinky's "Acid in my Fridge" on Brian Ffar mix I linked to in the other thread, the way its little rhythm snaps and bass burbles seem to emerge out of Dinky's track like an animal bursting through an eggshell.

Lukas see also Herbert's remix of Motorbass's "Ezio" (also from 96) on the Secondhand Sounds comp.

My favourite herbert fact is still that he played keyboards on champagne dance. In some alternative universe that session led to him and wiley forming a long-running creative partnership and making the best music in the world together.

Yes it's special. :) I recently mixed it into the intro of 'I Feel Space' and it works so well (I have had a hard time seperating both tracks in my mind since then...sort of the same thing you descirbe Tim, those clicks and voices start to really become part of the track it fades into.)

not really. currently westbam is being loathed for releasing an album with rock elements & touring with a live band