Charles Manson's songwriting copyright and publishing info

© 1987 Awareness Records on mine.

Why are you called a garbage dump?

Is Manson represented by ASCAP or BMI? Search for him on their websites; that should at least point you in the right direction.

"Lie" was always sort of a bootleg, and you won't find any legitimate claim to either the recordings or the publishing through Awareness or anyone else.

I'm nearly positive it's all "Copyright Control," which means (essentially) that the publishing rights belong to the writer and have not been superceded by any deals
with a publishing company.

It's unlikely that BMI or ASCAP would deal with Manson, I'm sure you won't find any info there at all.

If you could track down any information down, it might be gleaned by checking out the credits on the Guns & Roses album that features a cover of one of his songs. Surely someone here has a copy, but I suspect it simply says "copyright control" as well.

In short, you have two options:

1) Make a deal with Charlie himself.

2) Use the song knowing that it's pretty unlikely that Charlie will sue you.

I know which I'd pick; on the other hand, a lot of the Family are walking about
freely ;) When Touch & Go was going to release (or distribute, I can't recall which)
an album of "jailhouse" Manson recordings around 15 years ago, something went down that scared the living shit out of them. They're mum even to close pals, apparently.

Have fun!

p.s. Amazon distributing something only means it's not a bootleg on the level of a Beatles or Springsteen release. I've bought plenty of illegal and unsanctioned CDs
from Amazon (directly too, not through a featured seller). Amazon's involvement
means squat, legality-wise.

She should steal it -- serves him right.

Thanks Ricky. I think found the info i need on the ASCAP website. I tried BMI before my original post and came up empty handed, so I wrongly assumed ASCAP wouldn't help.

Although "Mechanical Man" isn't one of the songs listed, a lawyer for ESP-Disk is the Publisher/Administrator named by ASCAP for several of the "Lie" LP compositions. Now I'm quite curious to find out where any royalties are distributed. This is going to be a factor in her decision to include the song in the film.

So I got a very strong lead. Thanks for everyone's help!

The ESP release was a total bootleg, even by the evil standards of ESP. The royalties went exclusively to the owner of ESP. Sadly, this is true even for 'unincarcerated' ESP artists such as Tom Rapp / Pearls Before Swine. Do a search and you'll find that ESP were totally crooked. ESP's involvement with Manson / ASCAP is no different than if I tried to publish some of my compositions, like "She Loves You," "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever." In other words, they have no rights at all to the material
and never did. They have never distributed royalties to Manson or anyone with a claim to the Manson recordings. It's unlikely that they ever paid royalties to any of their other artists either.

By way of example, Tom Rapp's been very public about how he was taken by ESP, his first record for the label sold more than 200,000 copies, the second one at least half as money. So for about a third of a million copies sold, what did the Tom get? He figures less than $200.

I talked to Ed Sanders of the Fugs about ESP once too. He claims they never got a cent either - and their records outsold Pearls Before Swine!

I wouldn't even bother tracking down ESP-Disk. They'll just harass you for fees and royalties they have no claim to, if they even respond (they've been laying low for years now, fearing lawsuits from many of their 1960's artists).

Hey Dee, thanks for the head's up! Its no surprise at all that someone "controlling" Manson's publishing has a reputation of shady business practices. The name listed is Bernard Stollman, ESQ and lists a P.O. box instead of a street address. At least there is a phone number. I'll do some more research here on the interweb as you suggested, and I've got a lawyer friend in NYC that can get the dirt on any attorney.

I think someone controls the copyright because Awareness Records donates all procedes to the families of the Manson Family's victims. They don't pay Manson or anyone else anything.

don't get involved.

Too late, I was the first poster.

Too late, I was the first poster.
-- Brother Builder (pigeonpo...), June 7th, 2005.
nice knowing you.

It's hard to believe that the Manson family people are still sitting around the desert waiting for orders from Charlie.

This man might know:
http://www.gloriousnoise.com/images/anton.jpg

Here's an article from VARIETY:

Geffen to pay son of victim

The son of a man killed by followers of Charles Manson said Geffen Records has agreed to turn over any royalties earned by a Manson song on the Guns N' Roses album "The Spaghetti Incident?"

Bartek Frykowski's father, Voytek Frykowski, was slain with actress Sharon Tate and six others by followers of cult leader Manson in 1969 during the so-called Tate/LaBianca murders.

Frykowski, an aspiring filmmaker and the father of two children -- whom he described as "fans of the band"-- added he is surprised and angered by the "strange fascination" the public has with "mass murderers." He will receive the royalties to satisfy a 1971 judgment he won against Manson.

The label and the band came under fire when it was learned that "Look at Your Game, Girl," a tune written by Manson, could earn the convicted killer $62,500 for every million albums sold.

At the time of the album's release, Geffen president Ed Rosenblatt issued a statement saying it was the band's decision to include or delete the song from the album. GNR frontman Axl Rose defended the song's inclusion, noting its author is what made it interesting.

Frykowski's attorney, Nathaniel Friedman, obtained a $500,000 judgment in 1971 against Manson and his followers that remains in effect. The attorney admitted he has had little success in collecting any money because Manson doesn't have any assets. The judgment has grown to $ 1.2 million.

Friedman said he was using the press conference to advise other companies that may have deals to use Manson's name or likeness on properties that they are on notice. Manson's likeness currently appears on several apparel items, including T-shirts created by Rose's brother, Stuart.

"If there are companies out there that are in possession of monies that they are holding for Manson, they run the risk of being included in future litigation ," Friedman said.

The attorney said he was recently contacted by a New Jersey label that said it would forward approximately $ 2,000 to Friedman. The song was first released on Awareness Records, which is distributed by Performance Records of New Brunswick, N.J. The distrib had been contributing royalties to Victims of Violent Crime Fund, an org run by the state of California that collects funds for crime victims.

Ironically, if Manson royalties settle the judgment, the state could start charging him for board and care under a little-used law that allows the Dept. of Corrections to seize an inmate's assets to satisfy the state's expenses for housing and security.

Oh yeah, as far as Manson followers waiting around the desert for him to issue orders, probably not. Some of his followers (like Leslie van Houten) seem sincerely repentative and are probably still being held only because of the press backlash that would occur if they were released. On the other hand, the FBI and other agencies still monitor several other members who have maintained some level of contact with Charlie and claim to still "love" him. I think the Squeaky Fromme incident (wherein she attempted to assassinate President Ford) taught people that safe is better than sorry. And several people who have attempted to appropriate Charlie's image or work have been "contacted" by Charlie's "representatives" (see my earlier post about Touch & Go) and have either quit doing what they're doing or actually made deals with Charlie (you can search and find links to a story about a t-shirt company actually licensing Charlie's image from him).

Also, my incredible sources maintain that ESP or Awareness have never actually coughed up any money. Not the $2000 they claimed in the article above or anything, and of course the reality is that the figure would be much more than $2K.

I wonder what Charles Manson wants to do with the money? Or why Charles Manson wouldn't want his face on t-shirts?

I remember an interview of him when I was growing up, he seemed to want people to hear his music and generally be thinking of him.