I gave X&Y a 4.9 first.

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This needs to be established. I gave it a 4.9 first.

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

where?

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

The bum.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

if i didn't know english i'd give it a solid 8.

― mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 16:49 (twenty years ago)

what does it really matter how crap the lyrics are? i've got books enough to sort me out if i'm in the mood for good writing.

part that pisses ME off most is how hard it is to make out the eno part on 'low'. you bring eno into the studio and that's all you get out of him? just for that you deserve 4.9.

― martin turenne, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:11 (twenty years ago)

what does it really matter how crap the lyrics are? i've got books enough to sort me out if i'm in the mood for good writing.

Hehe. :)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:12 (twenty years ago)

martin, you are aware that eno co-produced "all that you can't leave behind"

― mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:13 (twenty years ago)

Martin's not aware of the difference between "song lyrics" and "words in books" - give him a break!

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

Aw, I thought that was a fair point, tho.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

"martin, you are aware that eno co-produced "all that you can't leave behind""

not a great album, for sure, but there's tons of bits on there that are sublime, especially the one track that eno & lanois actually mixed. can't remember what it's called. it's near the end. 'when i look at the world,' maybe? song just floats, maaaan.

― martin turenne, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

good knows i love the man, but its about time somebody did some damage to the notion that eno is still a useful, topline producer

― mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

"good knows i love the man, but its about time somebody did some damage to the notion that eno is still a useful, topline producer"

we're all ears, mark!

― martin turenne, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:23 (twenty years ago)

jaymc, you are WRONG! Do not pass "Go" etc. *winky*

That is to say (and if the wrong words are going in yr mouth, mark, kick me where it counts): "good lyrics" != "good writing" found in books. And "the lyrics on X&Y" != "good lyrics". "The lyrics on X&Y" = "the umpire that draws attention to his shitty notion of a strike zone by throwing out everyone that dares to question his strike-calling skill". And "I" = "supergenius, babe".

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)

Aw, I thought that was a fair point, tho.

I take issue with that. There are "phonetic" lyrics, that I'm only happy to admit can and should be pure nonsense (I give Thom Yorke a pass on some crap lyrics because I feel that he writes phonetically) or, say, total rock'n'roll cliche lyrics that are basically folk art. Then there are lyrics like "Mr. Martin"'s, which purport to actually convey something real, tell a story, give you advice, explain a worldview, etc. Now these should be judged with all severity reserved for poetry and prose.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:28 (twenty years ago)

joseph, point taken, though i'll say that i kind of do hear coldplay's lyrics phonetically. it's in one ear, out the other. vehicles for melody. that's the way i hear 'em. if other folks want to let lyrics penetrate that's fine, but i'd argue that's not worth doing except if maybe you're listening to dylan or some (very few) rappers.

― martin turenne, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:33 (twenty years ago)

i figure the best indie-rock lyricist (can't imagine who that might be) is closer to chris martin than he is to anyone i'd bother to sit down actually reading a book by. horrible sentence, sorry.

― martin turenne, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

I'm not sure I follow your logic, since you just said Chris Martin's lyrics just kind of wash over you. So would the best indie rock lyrics be utterly forgettable, then?

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

Chris Martin has been listening to too much Bob Marley.

― Ian John50n (orion), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:39 (twenty years ago)

yorke deserves daps for at least cluing in to the fact that people hear/listen to lyrics WAAAAAAAAAAAAY differently now than they did 20 years ago and adjusting his content to fit. i generally couldn't give a shit about lyrics in rock (they're just not something i listen for), so i like the way yorke's chopped and sliced word bits kind of glom on to the music. it's very impressionistic and good for the imagination. i have given martin all kinds of free passes in the past but x&y's lyrical content is truly, truly dreadful. i felt like a fucking child psychic the first time i heard it cause the five-year-old in me was sing-songing the next lines before they even came out of his mouth. joseph, you will have a lot of work to do to convince me that martin's actually out to convey something real or tell a story with his lyrics (as opposed to just filling in the pretty spaces with innocuous bits and bobs)

i mean i have never in my life heard a rock record that reminded me of the theme song to reading rainbow, that's got to be saying something

(xpost i generally hear rock lyrics the same way martin does, opaquely, as 'vehicles for melody' (good phrase) but cm's are SO ridiculous that they snap me right out of that mode)

― mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:39 (twenty years ago)

first, i'd say that martin's don't "wash over" me. they glide straight through without leaving a trace.

as for the indie-rock point, that's a shift in perspective. guess i just get frustrated when folks from that camp dismiss chris martin on account of his shit lyrics, as if indie-rock lyricists are all that measurably more brilliant than he is. which they're not, IMO.

― martin turenne, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

I wish someone would give Coldplay Ebola.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

"Indie rock lyricists" - I'm not sure that there is such a tribe. Or do you expect me to contrast Martin's lyrics with, uh, Malkmus's? That's not what I was after, and Malkmus is not that great a lyricist. To me, good lyricists are Elvis Costello, the Kinks, Stuart Staples, Jarvis Cocker, Luke Haines... barely an American in the bunch, by the way, except Merritt and Dave Berman (I am still not familiar enough with the Mountain Goats, sorry).

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

I didn't even listen to it. And I don't plan to.

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

Colin Meloy is obviously the greatest lyricist ever.

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

Hahahahhhahahahahahhaha!

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)

You know, you guys are right. There are plenty of what I consider good lyrics I would not necessarily want to read. I guess I sympathize with the point only because I grow impatient when I say I don't like someone (like Dylan or Darn1elle) and people say "oh but you have to listen to the lyrics!" And I think, well, I guess, but that would mean I'd have to listen to the music. (I said on the Sunset Tree thread that I have a feeling I would really like the album if its lyrics were published as a chapbook.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

i'm sort of tired of all these coldplay threads

― brokenfuses (brokenfuses), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 04:56 (twenty years ago)

I'm not sure I follow your logic, since you just said Chris Martin's lyrics just kind of wash over you. So would the best indie rock lyrics be utterly forgettable, then?

give em enough rope...

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 05:24 (twenty years ago)

I actually didn't know that Coldplay were releasing a new record until I read ILM today.

― Yakuza Ghost Six (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 05:28 (twenty years ago)

wow this record is dull even by coldplay standards. the first song is alright I guess.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

i think Malkmus is a great lyricist! personally i'm not one to zero in on lyrics too often either, as long as they don't stand out and above the music or take up too much space (which Martin does) i don't mind if they're dumb - however, if the lyrics are gonna be a major selling point for me, it's usually because they're very impressionistic or unorthodox or bizarre - ie. Meloy, Matthew Freidberger, Malkmus, Cam'ron, Ghostface, MF DOOM, etc.

on the other hand, i am a sucker for pop-country that manipulates the heartstrings, so matter how shamelessly.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

So, am I a big girl's blouse for thinking a couple of tracks on this record are actually pretty good?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 23 July 2005 02:27 (twenty years ago)

The fire - EXTINGUISHED!

― David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 23 July 2005 02:35 (twenty years ago)

Hahahahaha

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 23 July 2005 02:43 (twenty years ago)

http://www.superdickery.com/images/dick/1027_4_030.jpg

― Tumililingan (ex machina), Saturday, 23 July 2005 02:56 (twenty years ago)

i've heard this album a couple dozen times at work now. listening to it is like watching a snot-soaked sponge slide down a wall.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Saturday, 23 July 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)

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