wow, leonard cohen, wow

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

a freind gave me a copy of Songs of Love and Hate, and its fucking impressive. im a bright eyes fan, but this album makes most of saddle creek look like dawsons creek. so literate, so beautiful and depressing, this album is its own little atmosphere.

so, any recommendations as to other albums like this? is the rest of cohens catalog worth checking out?

― JD from CDepot, Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:28 (twenty years ago)

try songs from a room. but yeah this album is totally amazing.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

I prefer his schlocky synth-driven late '80s/early '90s stuff meself. Search: "I'm Your Man" and "The Future."

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

Leonard Cohen: Classic or Dud

"jazz police", alfred, is one of the best and worst songs ever

― b b, Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

I think "Jazz Police" is hilarious - one of the funniest pop songs about jazz that I've ever heard.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

"the partisan" is the best thing he ever did

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)

great album...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

"Take this Waltz" could be the most beautiful song ever.

― Marc- (feminazi), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

"the partisan" is the best thing he ever did

Never heard it but I like Electrelane's version.

― Marc- (feminazi), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

I like the older folkie stuff okay, but I'm Your Man is my favorite Cohen that I've heard.

ps- "The Partisan" wasn't written by him, was it? Allmusic shows a different composer on it.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

some (sketchy) history on "the partisan" can be found here: http://ystrickler.blogspot.com/2005/02/perfect-songs-partisan-and-tezeta.html

electrelane's version is so fucking awful.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)

I like the debut best, probably. Esp. the second side.

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:46 (twenty years ago)

But I'm the Man is right up there.

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

The 80s stuff and "Death of a Ladies' Man" is the best, easy. Leonard making Conor look bad isn't exactly SURPRISING, JD.

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:50 (twenty years ago)

Never heard Death of a Ladies Man, actually, should check that out. For whatever reason that doesn't seem to pop up in the used vinyl bins (maybe b/c no one bought it in the first place?)

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

I just read the lyrics to 'Jazz Police' and they make no sense!

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

instrumentalist

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

Well, it's basically a flight of fancy in which Cohen imagines some sort of KGB-esque secret police force whose job is to crack down on jazz. "Jazzer, drop your axe it's jazz police" cracks me up each time I hear it.

xpost

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

"the partisan" is the best thing he ever did

i can't really argue with that!

But I'm the Man is right up there.

hahaha!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 9 June 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, thought this was a Joe Jackson thread!

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 9 June 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

"Leonard making Conor look bad isn't exactly SURPRISING, JD. "

uh, i guess. i dont really wanna start defending bright eyes again, as ive done over way too many threads.

but i do think that a lot of the aesthetic of Saddle creek (especially anything by Conor Oberst or Tim Kasher) is borrowed from Cohen, at least as far as i can tell. again, im new to this cohen guy.

― JD from CDepot, Thursday, 9 June 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

No love for Recent Songs?

― Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Thursday, 9 June 2005 17:12 (twenty years ago)

I've been wanting to do an "In Praise Of" type thread about I'm Your Man but it seems like it would be tough to do without getting deep into the lyrics, which would be a major undertaking in itself. But just in terms of the sound, it's sort of an unlikely combination that somehow succeeded much better than it should have. I think the spare acoustic backing of Cohen's early stuff tended to reinforce his weaknesses and made him sound more mopy, humorless, and po-faced than he really is. I'm not sure who is responsible for the arrangements on I'm Your Man but they are really quite breathtaking in their understated subtlety and fullness. The 80s-funky drum machine beats and the lovely syrupy female backup singers are a perfect foil to Cohen's somewhat flat, subterranean baritone - he sounds more keyed into the rhythm than on any other album of his that I've heard and he sounds like he's having more fun. He seems the most self-aware of how his voice comes across and he's able to laugh at himself. Considering the minimal nature of the arrangements, it's also amazing how much stylistic ground they cover: from the faux-Pet Shop Boys disco of "First We Take Manhattan" to the loping faux-country of "I Can't Forget" to the odd choice of classical guitar to accompany "Everybody Knows" to the faux-waltz of "Take This Waltz" - it all works much better than you'd expect it to. On later albums I've heard such as Ten New Songs which have similar instrumentation, somehow the spark is missing. They aren't as funky and fun. Even if it was only a one-album peak, what a peak it is.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 9 June 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

He's been doing that shit since 84's "various positions" (NICE TITLE), so I tend to wanna credit him. JD, that's what I was saying

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 9 June 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

ps - when I say Cohen's voice is "somewhat flat" I don't mean "flat" in the sense of "off pitch" but in the sense of a certain featurelessness or austerity.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 9 June 2005 17:39 (twenty years ago)

Come to think of it, I feel a bit like a Leonard Cohen album today.

― Rufus 3000 (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 9 June 2005 17:44 (twenty years ago)

In the summertime? I'm always inclined to resort to mine around November.

― Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Thursday, 9 June 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

You might as well get the greatest hits. Songs From a Room is good as well. Death of a Ladies Man (complete with full-on Phil Spector production) is widely derided but I think it's awesome.

Other stuff like it? Dunno, but try The Boatman's Call by Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds and anything by Thalia Zedek.

― Ben Dot (1977), Thursday, 9 June 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

new skin for the old ceremony is good too

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 9 June 2005 21:39 (twenty years ago)

i think the next record you should pick up is "new skin for the old ceremony," then probably the first LP ("songs of leonard cohen")

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 9 June 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

new skin because it has lover lover lover on it, mainly

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 9 June 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

and "take this longing"!!! and "there is a war"!!!

as for someone who has sort of inherited cohen's mantle (more so than bright eyes, who i like a lot of the time): smog. although most days i think bill callahan has a richer catalogue than l. cohen. but they both are among my favorite musicians in the world.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 9 June 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

for a second there i thought you were saying "as someone who has sort of inherited cohen's mantle..."

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 9 June 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

no, that would be you.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 9 June 2005 21:50 (twenty years ago)

m slocki: four new songs, also two songs about old movies, and one about pistachios (sony, 2005)

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 9 June 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

i'm your duders

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 9 June 2005 21:52 (twenty years ago)

leonard cohen always depresses me. it's a beautiful sinking glorious sort of depression but i'd agree with hillary, not exactly summer listening.

oh yeah. "i'm your duders."

― jane (jane), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

it's always winter in the 3 AM of the heart. or is it that it's always 3 AM in the winter of the heart? i'm so confused.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:29 (twenty years ago)

Haha Amateurist. LC's LP titles are the classickest.

I sometimes find Songs From a Room a little more depressing as it's so damn sparse: mainly Leonard plus someone on Jews' harp in the corner. But really, the first three are approximately even in tone, getting marginally jauntier on New Skin and then gloriously over-the-top on Ladies' Man. I get less mileage out of the next two though...

Of course it's winter here, so y'all have convinced me to listen later...

― Nag! Nag! Nag! (Nag! Nag! Nag!), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:45 (twenty years ago)

"songs of love and hate" really ups the ante on the black humor, though. it also introduces the deadpan that cohen would exploit more fully in later lps. also it has "famous blue raincoat"!!!!!

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:49 (twenty years ago)

Is "Dress Rehearsal Rag" the most horrifying song evah?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

i love it!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:52 (twenty years ago)

i always imagined it ending up in a christmas pageant by mistake

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:52 (twenty years ago)

And even "Diamonds In the Mine" is great with its, erm, groovilicious gallows humour.

― Nag! Nag! Nag! (Nag! Nag! Nag!), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:56 (twenty years ago)

being a young man in montreal gives you a very... specific relationship to leonard cohen's work.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:57 (twenty years ago)

looking over his discography, i really do believe that "new skin" is my favorite of his lps, and that "songs from a room" is the least of his early records.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:58 (twenty years ago)

i like the discomforting scientology reference in "famous blue raincoat"; it dates the song beautifully, ties it to a particular milieu. i think that's my favorite of his songs, if i must have one.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 9 June 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

also he makes for surprisingly good makeout music

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 9 June 2005 23:28 (twenty years ago)

Haha, I can't imagine making out to "Chelsea Hotel No. 2".

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 9 June 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)

"Now you can say that I've grown bitter but of this you may be sure
The rich have got their channels in the bedrooms of the poor
And there's a mighty judgment coming, but I may be wrong
You see, you hear these funny voices
In the Tower of Song"

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Friday, 10 June 2005 00:07 (twenty years ago)

It's a real battle between Cohen and Hayes as to who's my favorite Scientologist.

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 10 June 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

i don't think lenny's a scientologist these days, he was in a (zen?) buddhist monastery in california for quite some time and he said in some interview that he still considers himself jewish (in a spec. religious sense, the question had to do with his time at the monastery).

― La Monte (La Monte), Friday, 10 June 2005 01:16 (twenty years ago)

xpost - Hayes would have to win since Cohen isn't a Scientologist.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 10 June 2005 01:18 (twenty years ago)

Never heard Death of a Ladies Man, actually, should check that out. For whatever reason that doesn't seem to pop up in the used vinyl bins (maybe b/c no one bought it in the first place?)

I see it in used bins all the time, but Canadians may have different shopping habits than Americans when it comes to LC. That said, I've never seen new CD copies of this album go for more than $10 Canadian.

As for the initial question, I really like the first album, Best of and Ladies Man and his poetry, but am not into the synth stuff and Beautiful Losers. Cohen's a lot more diverse than he gets credit for, though.

― Vic Funk, Friday, 10 June 2005 01:48 (twenty years ago)

It's insane that Spector rec has a bad rep, everyone I know who's heard it adores it

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Friday, 10 June 2005 01:52 (twenty years ago)

he was a scientologist, right? at least i thought so, although i could certainly be (and apparently am) wrong.

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 10 June 2005 01:57 (twenty years ago)

I think he flirted with it in the '60s or '70s like a lot of people did. But I mean, I wouldn't exactly refer to say William Burroughs as a Scientologist.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 10 June 2005 02:00 (twenty years ago)

gotcha. "famous blue raincoat" does have those lyrics about going clear and all that stuff though. fine, LC & Hayes are then in a battle for my favorite scientologist, past or present.

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 10 June 2005 02:09 (twenty years ago)

I'm Your Man is unbelievably great. Probably my favorite album of his. But Songs of LC is real close.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 10 June 2005 02:16 (twenty years ago)

i'm too tired to articulate this properly, but: cohen was in a post-beat bohemian milieu where people were flirting with a lot of "alternative" religions/belief systems/etc. a lot of people flirted with them, including cohen. but some folks sort of slipped away into cultlike religions or "programs" or simply into themselves, and FBR is in part about some guy who went off the rails at some point, or perhaps there's a more ecumenical way to put it, because cohen has a kind of wary admiration for him, who in a strange and scary and probably dubious way stayed truer to his own ideals than cohen who has settled down to a relationship with its attendant compromises etc. the song is sexist as all hell, but no less poignant for that. it captures a certain set of attitudes, a certain milieu, a certain SHIFT in that milieu, almost perfectly. it's also a remarkable achievement as a song, its strange shifting conversational style. the conceit of course is that it's a letter being written, and perhaps this clinches its uncomfortable immediacy. also what a closing line, the weird cagey "autobiographical fiction" aspect that troubles so many cohen lyrics. blah. blah. blah.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 10 June 2005 04:21 (twenty years ago)

Wow. This must be why I visit ILM. I know little of Scientology and only now do those previously puzzling lines (and indeed, a whole lot about this song) begin to make sense.

― Nag! Nag! Nag! (Nag! Nag! Nag!), Friday, 10 June 2005 04:38 (twenty years ago)

Leonard Cohen's awesome, try not listening to Bright Eyes.

― Nic de Teardrop (Nicholas), Friday, 10 June 2005 05:02 (twenty years ago)

Nice analysis amateruist. I always thought the tone of the "did you ever go clear" line implies that it's more the other guy's thing, not LC's. I guess because the delivery sounds more casually inquisitive than preachy.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 10 June 2005 05:12 (twenty years ago)

from a 1994 interview for the Jewish Book News:

Kurzweil
Some of the articles about you over the years have indicated that you've dabbled or more than dabbled in various kinds of spiritual paths. Is the line, "Did you ever go clear?" from Famous Blue Raincoat a Scientology reference?

Cohen
It was a Scientology reference. I looked into a lot of things. Scientology was one of them. It did not last very long. But it is very interesting, as I continue my studies in these matters, to see how really good Scientology was from the point of view of their data, their information, their actual knowledge, their wisdom writings, so to speak. It wasn't bad at all. It is scorned, and I don't know what the organization is like today, but it seems to have all the political residue of any large and growing organization. Yes, I did look into that and other things. from the Communist Party to the Republican Party, from Scientology to delusions of myself as the High Priest rebuilding the Temple.

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 10 June 2005 12:15 (twenty years ago)

four years pass...

Damn, how did I never know that New Skin is so good?

― Garri$on Kilo (Hurting 2), Friday, 10 July 2009 06:21 (sixteen years ago)

just stumbled on this clip last night. gorgeous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGGSo530bdA

― us_odd_bunny_lady (tipsy mothra), Friday, 10 July 2009 06:29 (sixteen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.