Why do people rag on Steely Dan's "Gaucho" so much?

Who exactly are these so-called "people" referred to in the original post? Everyone *I* know thinks Gaucho kicks ass.

xpost

ok to satisfy a weird curiosity. was donald fagen ever considered a hottie? or atleast a hipster/scenester back in the day? just surprised to find nothing of old pics online with him cavorting with models types (what i'd expect for some reason) or even just out in NY scene.

As for the Dan's jazz element -- and the haters can tell the "pseudo" part to Phil Woods, Wayne Shorter, or for that matter, Fagen's piano playing -- has anyone else heard the Warne Marsh/Pete Christlieb album Becker and Fagen produced in the late '70s? Really fine postbop stuff.

Well, this review from the AMG, for example (again, a not uncommon take that I've seen in reviews of this album):

"Aja was cool, relaxed, and controlled; it sounded deceptively easy. Its follow-up, Gaucho, while sonically similar, is its polar opposite: a precise and studied record, where all of the seams show. Gaucho essentially replicates the smooth jazz-pop of Aja, but with none of that record's dark, seductive romance or elegant aura. Instead, it's meticulous and exacting; each performance has been rehearsed so many times that it no longer has any emotional resonance. Furthermore, Walter Becker and Donald Fagen's songs are generally labored, only occasionally reaching their past heights, like on the suave "Babylon Sisters," "Time Out of Mind," and "Hey Nineteen." Still, those three songs are barely enough to make the remainder of the album's glossy, meandering fusion worthwhile."

How one could call this "meticulous, exacting, and rehearsed" in an especially negative way that does not apply to any of their other albums (again, especially Aja) is beyond me.

The aforementioned Christgau (Gaucho gets the lowest rating of all the Dan albums):

"With Walter Becker down to composer credits and very occasional bass, Donald Fagen progresses toward the intellectual cocktail rock he's sought for almost a decade--followed, of course, by a cadre of top-drawer El Lay studio hacks, the only musicians in the world smart enough to play his shit. Even the song with Aretha in it lends credence to rumors that the LP was originally entitled Countdown to Lethargy. After half a dozen hearings, the most arcane harmonies and unlikely hooks sound comforting, like one of those electromassagers that relax the muscles with a low-voltage shock. Craftsmen this obsessive don't want to rule the world--they just want to make sure it doesn't get them. B-"

1993 Rating of Steely Dan's albums (Rolling Stone, I believe?)
4 Can't Buy a Thrill
4.5 Countdown
5 Pretzel Logic (somewhere, my dad is smiling)
4 Katy Lied
3 Royal Scam
4 Aja
2.5 Gaucho

Before that, one of the early editions of the Rolling Stone Record Guide (IIRC, Gaucho got a

That said, I can hear the sinister subtexts beneath the steely glint of the soporific music. For sure.

I finally picked up a copy and I think it's great.

I had never caught one of the best lines in "Hey Nineteen" before:

The Cuervo Gold
The fine Colombian
Make tonight a wonderful thing

The way he phrases it is so spot-on -- he really sounds drunk and depressed, as though the tequila and coke are the only things propping him up.

I think "Columbian" at the time meant weed - not that there isn't plenty of coke on the album, but "Columbian" was a common designator for weed at the time

Ah, ok. Actually drunk/stoned fits that line better than drunk/coked-up.

And the whole mood of the song too - resigned rather than grandiose.

I made myself coffee and read the OTHER Steely Dan thread again; it really is the most amazing thing on ILM.

Please take me along when you slide on down

So what the hell is the "Custerdome?"

Becker: 'It's, ah, one of the largest buildings in the world. You know, an extravagant structure with a rotating restaurant on top.'

Fagen: 'It exists only in our collective imagination. In the Steely Dan lexicon it serves as an archetype of a building that houses great corporations...' "

from Reeling in the Years

i was kinda hoping it would be here. no luck.

I was just in chat with a certain Alex-in-NYC-type (it's all good, hate on what you wanna hate on), and somehow Dan came up, and I found myself defending them at length (well, length for chat anyway) even though I know it's not like I'm going to create converts that way. But it helped me put a couple of ideas into words that apply well to Gaucho:

I feel like this album gets the same criticism as books that cause people to say things like, "I don't want to read another book about the problems of middle aged white guys." "Oh boo hoo. You're tired of taking young girls home for meaningless cocaine-fueled sex. Poor you." But that criticism doesn't see the forest for the white guys, so to speak.

And of course the haters with the bigger record collections don't like the over-perfect sound, but over-perfect is much more the point than perfect in this case -- it's an intentional counterpoint to how crusty with filth the characters are on the inside. The record is filled with singularly bloodless studio performances, and oh how people love to point that out, but once you get inside the album's point of view, the sound is an uncomfortable defense mechanism, like an overzealous tendency toward gallows humor (which Fagen also has, is the rightful owner of, and is very good at). The songs have the same kind of "mellow" as a violent prisoner on a huge dose of tranquilizers -- lookin' pretty chill right now, but still at high risk for hurting himself or someone else. Oh my god, what happens when all that shit wears off?

There are a lot of SD songs that deal with the same basic theme, but on this album it's distilled: this is a world where everyone wants nothing more than to be presentable, but that's been taken care of, and no one has any good ideas about what to want next. Instead they have some very bad ideas, ideas that victimize young women in the first two tracks, encourage the cycle of drug addiction in another two, foster poisonous and/or jealous relationships throughout, and then in "Third World Man" the coup de grace: giving up the whole game, total retreat, holing up in your house and engaging in some (undefined by the song) solitary, obsessive nuttiness until one day you accidentally blow up the neighborhood. (Of all the scary people on this record, that's the one I'm most afraid of becoming.)

I get grandiose with praise too often, but when will this album get its due as the breezily scathing, horrifyingly easy-going little masterpiece that it is?

See above thread.

Yeah, I know, it was just on my mind, is all. Shrug.

I made myself coffee and read the OTHER Steely Dan thread again; it really is the most amazing thing on ILM.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:06 PM

Which thread in particular?

This one.

I've come to think there is no album more perfect and brilliant all the way through.

Glamour Profession might be the most underrated Dan song

I'm gonna join sw00ds and Vic Perry's podcast next week during which they'll interrogate me about sharing your feelings.

awesome, looking forward to it, please post links when it is up

I have been trying to burn out on this album by playing it nonstop for a week, but it's not working

Is "Gaucho" the song a thinly-veiled letter from Donald to Walter about the latter's junk habit?

Is "Gaucho" the song a thinly-veiled letter from Donald to Walter about the latter's junk habit?

I only just got the little "joke" in the bridge of Gaucho (it sounds like a mariachi band)

There are some drum phrases in this song that are so good that they're like a second set of lyrics

That wanker Mark Knopfler plays on “time out of mind”

this was the first proper Dan album i bought on vinyl, and it has always, always gotten more play than their other records. i *adore* the title track particularly because it is so mean and brutal and pressed up against this shiny veneer. brilliant shit.

yeah, barely xp

I assume it’s him on the opening bend lick

Anyway the drums own that track anyway

how many songs mention cherry wine besides "time out of mind" & "we don't have to take our clothes off (to have a good time)"?

i guess "babylon sisters" mentions kirschwasser...

I think Knopfler's part is that pretty simple part that comes in later on in the song, I remember reading about how they had him play for hours and hours and what made it onto the song was maybe a few bars, of a very simple phrase

not sure what version you jabronis are listening to but MKnopfler does all the leads over almost the entire of the version I have:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwgNbNfO_O8

check the left channel then he hits the phaser on the instrumental chorus then back to the left channel.

fuck wrong video, this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwgNbNfO_O8

3rd times a charm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJW2NH-CTJ8

whew, yeah click that one. left channel, then phasor for the instru-chorus, then back to the left channel. stop listening to mp3s you jabronis.

I have been trying to burn out on this album by playing it nonstop for a week, but it's not working

― five six and (man alive), Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:59 PM (five years ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is where I am right now. I have been immersing myself in the world this album builds--its numb depravity and decadence--for the past three days, and I don't think I can stop.

Someone on hipinion said the title track sounds like "a compilation of unusually well-produced local station IDs" which is spot-on and partly why I love that song so much

People who "rag" on Gaucho should be taken away and destroyed.

― retort pouch (retort pouch), Saturday, June 11, 2005 1:11 AM (fifteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

otm

The title track and "Third World Man" compete for best SD song.

40 years ago today

Mass Romantic yesterday, Gaucho today....what's next in line for the excellent album birthday celebration?

Seeing the Gaucho show in Morristown, NJ tonight. Has anyone seen them yet on this tour? They haven't done a Gaucho night yet, so I'm not sure exactly what to expect from the second set, but I'm crossing my fingers for "Bad Sneakers" and/or "Deacon Blues" which both seem like realistic possibilities...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bf7Dr7CzmM

Morris Mobley cover of Glamour Profession

fun cover, i like how he says "hoops mccain" instead of "hoops mccann," which makes me think he's talking about a black sheep member of that annoying family

We're double-bumping the Gaucho threads tonight.

Seeing the Gaucho show in Morristown, NJ tonight. Has anyone seen them yet on this tour? They haven't done a Gaucho night yet, so I'm not sure exactly what to expect from the second set, but I'm crossing my fingers for "Bad Sneakers" and/or "Deacon Blues" which both seem like realistic possibilities...

― J. Sam, Thursday, November 4, 2021 5:02 PM (nine months ago) bookmarkflaglink

In retrospect I was foolish to hope for "Deacon Blues." Looks like they only play it in the Aja shows :(

fantastic descriptions from the man himself

Donald explains Gaucho

new liner notes from the man himself for the upcoming reissue from Analogue Productions pic.twitter.com/dBlaEsYyZn

— Good Steely Dan Takes (@baddantakes) April 12, 2024

new Mulaney Steely Dan bit just dropped pic.twitter.com/gV1dDAhu44

— Good Steely Dan Takes (@baddantakes) December 11, 2024

my baby loves "daddy don't live in that new york city no more." idk why you would try to play gaucho for a baby!

Ahahahaha that story

Also he should have played “Peg” or “Kid Charlemagne”

Has Mulaney been working out or something? He looks more like a Dude than he used to.

He got a chin implant recently (discussed over in the SNL thread), plus I imagine between sobriety and locking down Olivia Munn he has incentive towards being fit.