If Joanna Newsom's Milk Eyed Mender were able to be re-recorded somehow with Blue-era Joni Mitchell vocals, would it be the best thing ever?

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Never has a "singer" so horribly sabotaged such beautiful and inventive playing....

I listened to Newsom's album side-by-side with Blue, and had to ask myself why in the world I would subject myself to such excrutiating vocals (no matter how pretty the instrumental arrangements or lyrics are), when there exist such heavenly and palatable voices like Joni's.

― PB, Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

Joanna's voice is fantastic. Joni's too.

― Sean M (Sean M), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

sean otm.

― jaymc (jaymc), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:33 (twenty years ago)

I've wondered the same thing myself, though I don't dislike Joanna N.'s voice as much as you seem to. Maybe if Joni Mitchell did it, it would still be great, but "palatable" vocals could also ruin the songs.

― Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:34 (twenty years ago)

Maybe I was a little harsh up above; I do think Joanna N.'s voice is effective and powerful in several songs ("En Gallop," the last song), but in others her little schtick just ruins an otherwise amazing arrangement ("Peach Plum Pear" for example). If I put on "Inflammatory Writ" for a group of 100 people, 80 would probably laugh in my face.

Even though I've grown to enjoy the album more than most records that were released last year....I guess I'm just sick of this whole, "Well, the music is good, but the vocals take some time to appreciate" vibe.

― PB, Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:58 (twenty years ago)

PB OTM.

― Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 11 June 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

yeah but if Milk-eyed Mender hadn't had the weird-ass vocals, Drag City wouldn't have released it, and whoever did release it wouldn't have been able to get all them people to review it favorably - you try selling a straight-up singer-songwriter album just on the merits of its lyrics & melodies and see how far you get

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Saturday, 11 June 2005 19:08 (twenty years ago)

almost any voice other than JN's would be an improvement

entirely too precious for me

ruins the whole album

― breezy, Saturday, 11 June 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

you try selling a straight-up singer-songwriter album just on the merits of its lyrics & melodies and see how far you get

Yeah, cuz Joni never sold an album.....

― PB, Saturday, 11 June 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

(unless you were being sarcastic, in which case i apologize...)

― PB, Saturday, 11 June 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

her phrasing on "inflammatory writ" is awesome!

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 11 June 2005 19:19 (twenty years ago)

Of course Joni sold many many albums and justifiably so, but at the time Blue came out there wasn't a surfeit of Joni wannabes (or to be fair, singer songwriters male or female) in orbit like there is today.

I saw an ad on tv this week advertising Damien Rice's 'O', I mean CHRIST! how long has that album been FUCKING out for, hasn't every dullard in search of depressing middle-class angst ridden BULLSHIT bought that sucker already.

― mzui (mzui), Saturday, 11 June 2005 21:59 (twenty years ago)

her vocals are terrible, the preciousness is astounding, inflammatory wit JESUS CHRIST! has got to be the most annoying thing I've ever heard....but once you get sucked into her ridiculous world its pretty amazing how it all works -- the lyrics, music and for sure her voice and personality all coming together. i listened to her driving down coastal norther calif and seriously started to believe that maybe i could park the car, give up my current identity and live my life as a sea maiden gathering oyster shells ... at that moment i checked the mirror and sorta looked like her (well, almost) - so...as far as i'm concerned, its all working. and i don't think joni would be doing these songs. joni's really different, isn't she?

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 11 June 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

Who is Joni Mitchell?

― alext (alext), Saturday, 11 June 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, cuz Joni never sold an album.....

mzui's on-point here: Joni Mitchell records sold well in a time when the singer-songwriter was a marketable commodity. In the present pop cosmos, straight singer-songwriter stuff minus some major sales hook (the harp, the bizarre voice) = instant market death.

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Sunday, 12 June 2005 03:50 (twenty years ago)

my wife hate's joni mitchell's voice

― [that bastard] jaxon (jaxon), Sunday, 12 June 2005 05:22 (twenty years ago)

i think part of what makes joanna newsom's music so magical is the inaccessability of her voice. so many great albums ("loveless," "bee thousand," etc) i've really not connected with upon first listen because the sound is so jarring, so different. but little by little, they become your favorite albums because you develop a relationship with them, with the sound. milk-eyed mender is like that. after a while, her voice becomes so emotionally raw and revealing and truthful that you can't help but connect. the fact that i can only put joanna newsom on for a select few people i know will enjoy her is wonderful, i think. also as telling is that every joanna newsom fan is intensely passionate about her. i haven't met anyone who owns that album and is indifferent about it. so.

― rockaction (rockaction), Sunday, 12 June 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

ilx always reminds me of this song:

Oh, where is your inflammatory writ
Your text that would incite a light, "Be lit"
Our music deserving devotion unswerving
Cry "Do I deserve her?" with unflagging fervor
Well, no you do not, if you cannot get over it

But what's it mean when suddenly we're spent, tell me true
Ambition came and reared its head, and went far from you
Even mollusks have weddings, though solemn and leaden
But you dirge for the dead, take no jam on your bread
Just a supper of salt and a waltz through your empty bed

And all at once it came to me
And I wrote and hunched 'till four-thirty
But that vestal light
It burns out with the night
In spite of all the time that we spent on it
One bedraggled ghost of a sonnet
While outside, the wild boars root
Without bending a bough underfoot
Oh it breaks my heart
I don't know how they do it
So don't ask me

And as for my inflammatory writ
Well, I wrote it and I was not inflamed one bit
Advice from the master derailed that disaster
He said "Hand that pen over to me, poetaster!"
While across the great plains, keening lovely and awful
Ululate the last Great American Novels
An unlawful lot, left to stutter and freeze, floodlit
But at least they didn't run, to their undying credit

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 12 June 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

Joanna Newsom's phrasing is incredible, the way she intuits which words to stress and enunciate.

― The Lex (The Lex), Sunday, 12 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

While across the great plains, keening lovely and awful
Ululate the last Great American Novels
An unlawful lot, left to stutter and freeze, floodlit
But at least they didn't run, to their undying credit

Jesus, this like a Vassar sophomore's thesis on David Berman. Haven't heard the album but I'm as intrigued by the argument over her voice as I am repulsed by the lyrics; I am a Mia Doi Todd fan and usually let her more cringeworthy passages slide -- so, will I like this?

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 12 June 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

this *is* like, etc

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 12 June 2005 20:26 (twenty years ago)

not gettin' it.

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 12 June 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

not gettin' Newsom or my query?

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 12 June 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

oh i'm gettin' it.

ps david berman, to my knowledge, is not a novelist.

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 12 June 2005 20:42 (twenty years ago)

There's something totally idiosyncratic about Joanna's delivery, Joseph, and I don't say that lightly. She doesn't sing like anyone else I have ever heard -- I don't mean her voice, but (like Lex talks about) her stresses/enunciation. The closest thing is Bjork, but (despite the pigeonholing Joanna's genre incites,) Newsom lacks all of Bjork's preciousness - and becomes something totally different, forceful and wise and genius.

If I think someone might like Joanna, I play them "Bridges and Balloons". If they don't like that, I try "Clam, Crab, Cockle, Cowrie". And if they don't like that, it's "Peach, Pear, Plum". And if it's still no-go, it's gonna stay no-go. There are different aspects of her that appeal to people, initially, and then it can take some time for them to fall in love with the rest.

― Sean M (Sean M), Sunday, 12 June 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

i hate the way i can predict 90% of hstencils responses. i guess i "get it".

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 12 June 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)

you got an extra is

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 12 June 2005 22:16 (twenty years ago)

I'm amazed and how much sense those lyrics make when printed on the page. I never read the lyric sheet, so I know the songs mainly by the phrases and fragments that stick in my head, but the whole thing actually flows and makes sense. Quite poetic too, I would say.

― o. nate (onate), Sunday, 12 June 2005 22:20 (twenty years ago)

I'm amazed at how much sense...

― o. nate (onate), Sunday, 12 June 2005 22:21 (twenty years ago)

i haven't heard the whole album, nor own it. i just heard that song playing in a store once and i was like, "man, ilx."

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 12 June 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

Well, it's about a struggling writer, so in that sense, definitely.

― o. nate (onate), Sunday, 12 June 2005 22:23 (twenty years ago)

well, yes and no.

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 12 June 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

Or was there another aspect of it that seemed more relevant?

― o. nate (onate), Sunday, 12 June 2005 22:28 (twenty years ago)

well, no and yes. anyway you've got it.

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 12 June 2005 22:29 (twenty years ago)

Phrasing is a skill that takes much talent, I admit that, and the phrasing on "Inflammatory Writ" is very good. But, and maybe this is just my personal taste, I don't enjoy songs in which the singer's voice CRACKS like a glass vase. You're telling me that was the best take they got out of her?

― PB, Sunday, 12 June 2005 23:15 (twenty years ago)

I have to admit an irrational bigotry against this album because of its utterly horrible name. The word that comes to mind whenever I see it is 'mewling'

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 June 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

Milk-Eyed Mewler?

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 13 June 2005 00:49 (twenty years ago)

Mule-Eyed Milker?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 13 June 2005 01:00 (twenty years ago)

Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing?

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 01:02 (twenty years ago)

Mmmm.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 June 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

ned, front and center:

http://www.vh1.com/shared/media/images/sn_legacy/sonicnet/assetmedia/bands/images/5033_5230.jpg

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 02:20 (twenty years ago)

I got this yesterday to see what all the fuss was about, her voice is NOT at all "self-sabotage" or annoying or whatever else people complain about. I think it's really cool. It adds a whole extra dimension of interest to the music. Even my Dad was enjoying it.

My 5 cents.

― Nic de Teardrop (Nicholas), Monday, 13 June 2005 03:12 (twenty years ago)

what's wrong with the title of the album?

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 13 June 2005 04:03 (twenty years ago)

If I put on "Inflammatory Writ" for a group of 100 people, 80 would probably laugh in my face.

That hstencil,etc,etc are in that 80% is all you really need to know about them.

― MV, Monday, 13 June 2005 04:27 (twenty years ago)

why would i laugh? i like the song.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 04:32 (twenty years ago)

Don't complicate my prejudices with tactical nuance.

― MV, Monday, 13 June 2005 04:49 (twenty years ago)

it's not tactics. and probably not very nuanced.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 04:53 (twenty years ago)

I listened to this again this morning. The singing is a little rough around the edges, but it could have been much worse. I'd rather have rough-edged, enthusiastic, unstudied vocals than overly-smooth, mannered vocals. It might be interesting to hear these songs covered by another singer, but I like these versions too. If her voice bugs you, then try singing along - you won't notice it as much.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 13 June 2005 13:59 (twenty years ago)

If her voice bugs you, then try singing along - you won't notice it as much

saving this line for future press kits, though I'm not hopeful for its prospects in winning over new listeners

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 13 June 2005 14:06 (twenty years ago)

Maybe I was a little harsh.....I listened to the album again last night and was reminded how much I love some of the songs. And "Inflammatory Writ" isn't as awful as I remembered it. But "Peach Plum Pear" -- it just infuriates me b/c the song has such potential, but I just cannot bring myself to even slightly warm up to her vocals in it. If I played this for 100 people, 90 of them would love it until she started singing, then all 100 of them would laugh in my face.

And, on a side note, I think I'm probably more intrigued to see what her next album will be like than any other current artist....

― PB, Monday, 13 June 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

I remember reading in an interview that she gets frustrated with all the people who call her voice or music "childish". GUH!?!?!

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 13 June 2005 14:10 (twenty years ago)

I have a feeling her vocals are going to get a bit smoother as time goes on - how could they not? Assuming she goes on to have a fruitful career, probably at some point she'll look back at this album and smile ruefully at the follies of youth - or at least I imagine it that way.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 13 June 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)

Her lyrics are great though......I think I swooned the first time I heard her mention "Cair Paravel" in "Bridges and Balloons."

― PB, Monday, 13 June 2005 14:13 (twenty years ago)

To me, her voice should be considered as another instrument, one that makes a really interesting pairing with the more delicate harp and harpsichord.

― Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Monday, 13 June 2005 14:19 (twenty years ago)

"This is not my song / But it's mine to use". I love the phrasing on that line. It makes perfect sense with the amateurish burst of her voice.

― Die Emanzipation von Baaderonixx (redukt) (Fabfunk), Monday, 13 June 2005 14:24 (twenty years ago)

I thought that line was about how traditional/folk songs kind of belong to everyone and how they become new each time someone performs them.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 13 June 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

yeah that's also how I understand it.

― Die Emanzipation von Baaderonixx (redukt) (Fabfunk), Monday, 13 June 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

Lyrics awful twee nonsense, delivery even worse. the horrible alliteration on this record drives me up the walls, it makes me want to scratch just listening to it, so annoying. (if it seems unlikely that I would hear this, I should explain that I play it at work cos it sells well)

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

While across the sky sheet
the impossible birds, in a steady,
illiterate movement homewards.

Joanna Newsom is an upandcomer with all the talent she needs, tell you what: I will back this horse and you pick another from the same grouping...and we will see where the two of us stand in ten years. I know where my money is. She is stunning, amazing and so talented, if you can't see it i feel sorry for you.

dwain

― dwaink, Sunday, 21 August 2005 15:31 (twenty years ago)

months later i still don't know what to think of her in total. but at some point i got totally used to her vocals and now its the tweeness of the lyrics that somewhat bothers me. sorta reminds me of patrick wolf in the contrived department, but her lyrics are way more hokey and his music is way less interesting. but just hard in terms of both of them to get truly interested if you've outgrown ability to conjure and believe in magic etc.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 21 August 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

I'm the same as Susan, I'm still polarised myself by this record...I think I unreservedly love 'Inflammatory Writ' though. For me the stumbling block is still the tweeness of the melodies, they all rise and fall a bit too neatly, but the lyrics are fantastic.

it definitely does help if you sing along.

I want some banging electrohouse remixes of Joanna Newsom, really really.

― The Lex (The Lex), Sunday, 21 August 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

I want some banging electrohouse remixes of Joanna Newsom, really really.

Will this do?
http://www.certifiedbananas.com/CBradio-Joanna_Reggaeton.mp3

More Joanna Newsom covers:

The Decemberists
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/mp3/bridgesandballoons.mp3

Final Fantasy
http://www.everyhumanstep.com/final_fantasy-peach_plum_pear.mp3

― Edward III, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

So, is she working on a follow-up?

I'm very very interested to see what she does.

― PB, Wednesday, 7 September 2005 01:54 (twenty years ago)

I should say I'm very very "inntare-ess-ted"

― PB, Wednesday, 7 September 2005 01:54 (twenty years ago)

I heard that "what she does" involves helium and nipple clamps.

― Ian John50n (orion), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 04:24 (twenty years ago)

Joanna Newsome ... I hate her silly, cloying alliteration and I hate her mewling (yes Ned!) voice. She sounds like someone who has too many cats, collects miniature teapots and takes pottery evening classes, but has, so far, only been able to produce an ashtray which she now proudly displays pot pouri in.

Shame, because the tunes are quite nice.

(And isn't 'nice' such a Joanna Newsome word?)

― Anna (Anna), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 13:31 (twenty years ago)

It's Newsom, without an extra e.

I don't understand the cat-collectin' pepper-pot dungeons-and-dragons sort of scene people are describing. It's a decidedly un-twee record, at least in the typical sense, nor is it particularly hysterical, melancholy or whining. The songs are gloriously brassy, inventive, canny, with lyrics more like Nina Simone than people might guess at first listen. I don't think I'll ever understand the hate.

According to a friend, she is indeed at work on a follow-up, as Milk-Eyed Mender is mostly songs from several years ago.

― sean gramophone (Sean M), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 13:45 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, I lost my ability to spell check in the waves of vitriol.

― Anna (Anna), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

i understand the vitriol, but she's from california where you can actually build substance on a framework of bullshit. i think it will be interesting to see how things evolve as she matures and finds meaning/inspiration outside of objects/fashion/style. but i'm atleast somewhat looking forward to the next album even if it is more of the old stuff.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 17:38 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

She can write a good lyric, but she's a one trick pony. She's building her lyrics upon all this "suddenly hip" nautical imagery. The rest is a gimmick; crappy voice, check! obscure instrument, check! Twee indie chick look, check! Let's see where she is in five years, 5 bucks says her albums are collecting dust in second hand record shops. As to the rawness of her crappy vocals, Bob Dylan was raw, but not because he couldn't sing, but because he was talented and his lyrics and music were great in spite of his voice. Newsome's voice is so affected, that no untrained individual would just pick up singing in that manner. Whatever happened to talent.

― MichaelPajon, Thursday, 20 October 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

hip nautical imagery?

― tom west (thomp), Thursday, 20 October 2005 22:02 (twenty years ago)

what is this now 1750?

― tom west (thomp), Thursday, 20 October 2005 22:04 (twenty years ago)

To be fair, the Decemberists traffic in this hip nautical imagery too.

And I heard the Killers are working on an awesome version of "All For Me Grog."

― A|ex P@reene (Pareene), Thursday, 20 October 2005 22:06 (twenty years ago)

The Fiery Furnaces wrote the song "Blueberry Boat," and I guess that must be part of this Hip Nautical Trend.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Friday, 21 October 2005 00:28 (twenty years ago)

Nauticore

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 21 October 2005 01:33 (twenty years ago)

dudes, june of 44, like ten years ago.

and yes, it takes absolutely no talent to play harp and sing at the same time. sure.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 October 2005 01:36 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

Late to the party, but the singing is great.

― roxymuzak, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 05:55 (eighteen years ago)

I want her to do some Daniel Johnston covers.

― marmotwolof, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 06:31 (eighteen years ago)

She's very good.

― Lostandfound, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 07:49 (eighteen years ago)

two years pass...

Prophetic.

― Mark, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 02:22 (sixteen years ago)

u misspelled "pathetic"

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 02:23 (sixteen years ago)

haha

― Mark, Wednesday, 10 March 2010 02:23 (sixteen years ago)

seven years pass...

If Joanna Newsom's Milk Eyed Mender were able to be re-recorded somehow with 'Brand New Key'-era Melanie vocals, would anyone even know the difference?

― the old rugged crocs (unregistered), Tuesday, 5 September 2017 13:55 (eight years ago)

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