This article summarizes everything I feel about Michael Jackson's mental state

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Despite all the allegations, attacks, and insinuations, I think any reasonable person who steps back will find that everything in this article rings true.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2120889/

Mervin Heinz, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I agree.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

Seeing as how I have deep disagreements with the very first paragraph, I'd say "no".

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

That's quite a good article. Thanks.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

This article narrows it down a bit too much, but I speculate similarly.

PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

This has always been obvious to me.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

otherewise yes, the article's points are blatantly obvious.

(tho I did a double take at "Apple Head Club" - APPLE HEAD?!??? yikes)

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:30 (twenty years ago)

why should any of these "points" be "blatantly obvious" to anyone who doesn't actually know michael jackson perfectly?

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

i mean personally

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

cuz he's lived a public life almost his entire life, and anyone who's paid attention and thought about how his image/career would affect him psychologically could draw these conclusions...? I don't see what's so revelatory about this article. the "Peter Pan" complex, the "stolen childhood", etc. has all been rehashed and restated again and again and again in more places than I can count.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

I have issues with the first paragraph, too, now that you mention it. Perhaps MJ doesn't fit the textbook profile of a pedophile, but that doesn't mean that he might not have engaged in inappropriate sexual activity with young boys.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

(also am I the only person on this thread aware of the hip-hop slang connotation of "apple head"?)

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

(xpost to myself) Especially since pre-adolescent boys have been known to experiment themselves -- if he considers himself a boy himself, he might not consider anything strange about this behavior.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

I agree with Amateurist. I'm not one of those people who immediately presumes his guilt, but I can't say he is incapable of what he was accused of either. Unless you personally know him it would be difficult to make those sorts of calls.

Leon C. (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

It's kinda blatantly obvious to anyone who's followed him for years or read J. Randy Tamborelli's book about him (ie me in both cases).

xxx-p - Try taking into account the parts about the groupies and the strip clubs for once. We're talking about a guy who was scared to death when propositioned one on one by a hooker at age 18 here.

BARMS, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:36 (twenty years ago)

"Try taking into account the parts about the groupies and the strip clubs for once. We're talking about a guy who was scared to death when propositioned one on one by a hooker at age 18 here. "

again, this is not news to me. Hell, this very point was reiterated over and over and over by VH1 just a month ago in their puff piece "Inside the Mind of MJ" or whatever it was called (and if VH1 is harping on the point then you know it's already percolated thru the rest of the media).

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:38 (twenty years ago)

"if he considers himself a boy himself, he might not consider anything strange about this behavior. "

DING DING DING DING!

otm

(also, not coincidentally, this is common pedo psychology - "I'm not doing anything wrong, kids love it, and I'm just a kid at heart, we're SHARING, etc." See every NAMBLA members' defense ever)

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:40 (twenty years ago)

that doesn't mean that he might not have engaged in inappropriate sexual activity with young boys.

exactly; just because he might be "stunted" doesn't mean he can't abuse. children sexually abuse other children all the time.

kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

my main beef with presenting this article as if its impartial or objective is that the very first sentence declares the author's position/intentions - ie, considering Jackson exclusively as a victim.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

So he's just retarded, then?

Huk-L, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

Um, but what to make of MJ's two kids? I'd say bearing children (by whatever means) is some acknowledgement of adult sexuality. I mean, he didn't leave 'em in a dumpster, which is what children would do.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:43 (twenty years ago)

considering the mother and father didn't have sex, I don't see how adult sexuality factors into his kids.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

This article fails to take into account all of the very adult (as in fully-matured being, not adult books store) things MJ has done since, oh, 1980.

Huk-L, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

"he didn't leave 'em in a dumpster, which is what children would do."

(also, I realize that this is hyperbole, but this is a pretty weird analysis of children and their relationships to infants - a disgruntled little boy might toss a baby in a dumpster. I doubt most little girls would abandon a baby)

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:47 (twenty years ago)

I mean, he didn't leave 'em in a dumpster, which is what children would do.

STOP THROWIN BABIES IN THE MUTHAFUCKIN TRASH CANS!

Disco Rick (Solo), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:48 (twenty years ago)

I doubt most little girls would abandon a baby

Attend one junior prom.

Huk-L, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:48 (twenty years ago)

The very notion of having children is innately adult. Playing tea party with dolls (for example) is not.

I was joking about what young, surprised, unprepared parents often do, not the general copacetic relationship between kids and infants.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)

Attend one junior prom.

...so you too can become a child molestor.

PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)

I think to say that he has no comprehension of adult sexuality or is terrified by it is a little naive - he has fathered 2 children after all and married twice, even if both failed.

His mental state definitely seemed to be deteriorating over the years but back when he was still actively making music, there was a lot of indication that this is a fully functional adult albeit one who's a little on the innocent side. But still, surely not as childlike as this article makes him out to be.

Roz (Roz), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:50 (twenty years ago)

Huk otm re: adult things. Dude "fucked over" McCartney, fired his father as manager and extricated himself from his financial affairs, negotiated the best royalty rate in the biz...

BARMS, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:51 (twenty years ago)

"The very notion of having children is innately adult. "

I think you mean "the notion of projecting a proper image is innately adult". Since that seems like what was happening with his sudden "fatherhood" impulse to me.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:51 (twenty years ago)

keep in mind that intent is irrelevant for statutory rape.

that said, i largely agree w/ this article.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:54 (twenty years ago)

FUCKING PATHETIC:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050615/en_nm/jackson_dc_2

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

Child Molester + hundreds of millions of dollars = "Tragedy"

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 22:23 (twenty years ago)

And while celebrity-verite reality programs have been all the rage in recent years, the level of interest in the Jackson family among major TV outlets is questionable, industry insiders said.

What? The Jackson family's profile hasn't been this high in years! Who wouldn't watch such a show right now?

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

I wouldn't. It would be nauseating treacly propaganda.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 15 June 2005 22:34 (twenty years ago)

Shakey OTM

Merv - this article gives you a nice plausible way to believe Michael Jackson is not a paedophile. Its called denial.

Face the truth. The guy is a sick and sexually abuses children.

finger of the messiah, Thursday, 16 June 2005 03:52 (twenty years ago)

I don't think the article does a good job of even anything. It reads like one of the guys at VH1's The Best Week Ever taking a moment to wax serious. Every bit of information in it is gleaned through the media prism, and so Michael is childlike, innocent, asexual, etc. "Not only does Michael not have sex with children, he doesn't have sex with anyone!" I don't buy it.

Obviously the dude is a little unhinged. I credit MJ's staff with his many astute business decisions, but certainly he's been a wizard as far as self-promotion and finance-accumulation goes. I've read that there's a pretty big difference between Michael-on-camera and Michael-in-private, that he acts significantly more like a regular guy when the tape isn't rolling. When not tending his flock of children, he tends to associate with people like Elizabeth Taylor and Marlon Brando, who are much like MJ, in my mind: intelligent yet marginally crazy, overadulated recluses.

Mikey doesn't really fit into a box. He's sexual (everything I've read says that he consummated his relationship with Lisa Marie more than just a few times) and asexual, sometimes crazy / sometimes sane. He's a former hard working kid who seems to have become incredibly lazy. He probably enjoys the company of pharmaceuticals. Yadda yadda.

There's a lot of shades of gray between "child molestor" and "regular dude", a lot of opportunity for contradictory behavior. He may very well have molested the kid in the early 90s and yet never made a sexual move on this new kid. He mighta squeezed em both, or neither.

The only child he definitely abused is himself, that's all I know.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 16 June 2005 05:49 (twenty years ago)

From the Onion:
"Enchanted By Own Innocence, Michael Jackson Molests Self"

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Thursday, 16 June 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

He's a former hard working kid who seems to have become incredibly lazy. He probably enjoys the company of pharmaceuticals.

OTM

metal detective (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 16 June 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

There is, of course, a literary precedent here. "I am Peter Pan," Jackson told Bashir. Even without his cosmetic remodeling as Mary Martin, this identification would be hard to miss.

PULITZER

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 16 June 2005 17:11 (twenty years ago)

"I've never believed Michael Jackson was a pedophile. To begin with, he doesn't fit the profile. Child abusers tend to do the same thing again and again."

The trial alone featured 4 children (the accuser, Robeson, Culkin, and Chandler) who had almost identical "relationships" with MJ - parents bought off while the "cute" kid sleeps in the same bed as MJ, then are dumped when they get too old.

"According to one study, the average molester of boys commits 280 crimes over a lifetime. Yet despite the lure of getting rich by making accusations against Jacko, only two alleged victims have ever come forward with detailed allegations."

MJ is not your average anything, let alone child molestor. How long did it take for all the pedo-priest victims to come out, if ever? Absence of evidence, etc.

"What's more, those two accusations, separated by 10 years, don't conform to a pattern. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the accuser in the recent case—the cancer victim—alleged groping by Jackson. Jackson's previous accuser, whose family settled a civil suit in 1993 for $20 million, accused the singer of more extreme abuse, including oral sex."

Jordan Chandler's molestation started with just groping then gradually built to more. Perhaps MJ was never able to get any further with Gavin, or other boys.

etc etc. Its just a horrible article.


mjfan, Thursday, 16 June 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

yeah, it's pop pyschology is what it is. "michael can't have done x, because he's y." people are complicated. those complications often come out in court, sometimes they don't.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 16 June 2005 19:19 (twenty years ago)


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