what is sexist, exactly, about TLC's "No Scrubs"?

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A scrub is a guy that thinks he’s fly
And is also known as a buster (busta, busta...)
Always talkin’ about what he wants
And just sits on his broke ass
So (no)

I don’t want your number (no)
I don’t want to give you mine and (no)
I don’t want to meet you nowhere (no)
I don’t want none of your time and (no)

Chorus:
I don’t want no scrub
A scrub is a guy that can’t get no love from me
Hanging out the passenger side
Of his best friend’s ride
Trying to holler at me
I don’t want no scrub
A scrub is a guy that can’t get no love from me
Hanging out the passenger side
Of his best friend’s ride
Trying to holler at me

There’s a scrub checkin’ me
But his game is kinda weak
And I know that he cannot approach me
Cuz I’m lookin’ like class and he’s lookin’ like trash
Can’t get wit’ no deadbeat ass
So (no) (yea, yea)

I don’t want your number (no)
I don’t want to give you mine and (no)
I don’t want to meet you nowhere (no)
I don’t want none of your time (no)

Chorus

If you don’t have a car and you’re walking
Oh yes son I’m talking to you
If you live at home wit’ your momma
Oh yes son I’m talking to you (baby)
If you have a shorty that you don’t show love
Oh yes son I’m talking to you (yea yea yea yea...)
Wanna get with me with no money
Oh no I don’t want no (oh)

No scrub (no scrub, no love)
No scrub (no no) (no scrub, no love)
No scrub (no no no no no)
No scrub (no no)
No

Chorus x2

Left eye:
See, if you can’t spatially expand my horizon
Then that leaves you in a class with scrubs never risin’
I don’t find it surprisin’
If you don’t have the g’s
To please me and bounce from here to the coast of overseas
So, let me give you somethin’ to think about
Inundate your mind with intentions to turn you out
Can’t forget the focus on the picture in front of me
You as clear as dvd on digital tv screen
Satisfy my appetite with something spectacular
Check your vernacular
And then I get back to ya
With diamond like precision
Insatiable is what I envision
Can’t detect acquisition
From your friend’s expedition
Mr. big willy if you really wanna know
Ask chilli, could I be a silly ho
Not really, t-boz and all my senoritas
Is steppin’ on your filas
But you don’t hear me though

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

I don't have a car! I'm a scrub! neat.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

The proble is not that it's sexist, it's that it's crap.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

problem, even.

― Alex in NYC...who also has no car, thus....a scrub and dang proud of it (vassife, Tuesday, 21 June 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

it ain't no "Creep"

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

I'm surprised TLC never covered "Burning Down The House."

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

It ain't no "Ain't To Proud to Beg" either.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

I don't really think it's sexist, but it is kind of shallow.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

But it's really clever shallowness! Catchy too.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

I wouldn't have thought DVD had been around as long as this song. I only acquired a DVD player within the last two years. Hopefully I am no longer scrub.

― danski (danski), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

Maybe it's more classist, but it's still clear that men are expected to provide T-Boz, Chilli, and Left Eye with sexual satisfaction, travel opportunities, and social prestige, and will be classified as not worth talking to if they can't expand Left Eye's spatial.

Oh Lisa (RIP), what about your mental, yo?

Whatever happened to not chasing waterfalls? This song makes me feel so damn unwealthy...

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

I know I should really be directing this question at Paul McCartney, but how exactly does one chase a waterfall?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

waterfalls are slippery motherfuckers. hard to catch.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 21:59 (twenty years ago)

Anytime a group uses slang a decade too late, classic.

(granted, Rudy on the Cosby Show was saying "scrud", but everyone I knew at the time thought scrub was the insult)

― PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 02:21 (twenty years ago)

Why is ILM almost exclusively male?

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 02:23 (twenty years ago)

I don't care HOW to chase a waterfall, I want to know WHO all is chasing waterfalls that they had to write a whole song warning of the dangers of such a pursuit. Surely there are more people drinking/driving than chasing waterfalls. Maybe they wrote it to get out of a public service duty.

― VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 02:25 (twenty years ago)

xpost - dear god, don't send me back again. I spent all day there!

― VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 02:26 (twenty years ago)

it's sexist to not like a TLC song, orbit? or am i missing your implication with the link to that thread?

― jack cole's skeletal remains found at the bottom of a ravine (jackcole), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 02:27 (twenty years ago)

it's not sexist, it's just wealthist.

haha "You as clear as dvd on digital tv screen" = QUAINT.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 02:37 (twenty years ago)

But think about it. It's the male point of view about the song being discussed--why on earth would any female risk getting dogpiled to say anything contrary to the running tone? My implication is that *i*, being female, don't feel welcome to join in this discussion. It's more trouble than it's worth.

Will you make me poetry now?
xpost

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 02:48 (twenty years ago)

Withholding affection unless monetary incentives are provided - C/D?

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 02:54 (twenty years ago)

Losers yelling at girls from cars C/D?

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 02:54 (twenty years ago)

I've always hated this song because it seems sexist, not because it's knocking uncouth men but in that it seems singer's only way of relating to men is as someone "lookin like class" from whom guys "get love". Like a lot of RnB and other pop chart aimed music it might sound great, but often has unpleasantly sexist/conservative/materialistic lyrics.

― Telegram Sam, Wednesday, 22 June 2005 03:10 (twenty years ago)

ohn yeah compared to "Suck my dick bitch" and all the pimp and ho lyrics it's pretty harsh....

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 03:12 (twenty years ago)

No of course they're the sort of offensive thing I'm complaining about, but perhaps Scrubs is more insidious because it although it seems to be a pro women song, in fact it really reinforced the same exploitative and transactional model of realtionships between men and women

― Telegram Sam, Wednesday, 22 June 2005 03:33 (twenty years ago)

Hey Orbit, hate to state the obvious here, but...uhm... posting to this thread would be considered 'joining' the discussion. Just wasn't sure if you knew that.

As you were...

― VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 04:28 (twenty years ago)

i would argue, orbit, that the primary focus of the song is materialism as represented by the standards for what a good man is. argubly the song itself is misogynist itself perpetuating the idea of the woman needing the man for wealth. as for the risk of being dogpiled for expressing an opinion, that may or may not happen irregardless of gender.

― jack cole's skeletal remains found at the bottom of a ravine (jackcole), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)

Hooray! Cheers to Jack.

― VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 04:48 (twenty years ago)

"Don't go chasing waterfalls... stick to them dicks and balls" --Ice Cube

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 04:50 (twenty years ago)

That's awful, but in the ham-fisted way that amuses me greatly at the same time. I'm simultaneously repulsed and amused.

― VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 05:01 (twenty years ago)

'Dicks and balls'...it sounds more like sporting equipment than tuff male anatomy...

― VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 05:02 (twenty years ago)

It's the male point of view about the song being discussed--why on earth would any female risk getting dogpiled to say anything contrary to the running tone?

Perhaps to change the course of the conversation?

This thread started as a tongue-in-cheek response to the "what is sexist about 'Under My Thumb'?" thread (which spun off from the "Why is ILM almost exclusively male?" thread). I just got back from the Spoon show, I'm in a great mood, probably buzzed, and I haven't checked that thread to see where it's been in the past seven hours or where it's going, so at the risk of getting dogpiled...

Taking that risk is what any of us do when we post - on ILM or elsewhere, but admittedly more so on less-moderated boards, which give us the freedom to discuss things like adults at the expense of sometimes behaving like children. But as has already been said on the main thread, very few conversations worth having go "yeah, yeah, what he said!"

Risking getting dogpiled by a "male point of view" on this thread simply doesn't scan for me. Is there a gendered standpoint from which "No Scrubs" would be considered not sexist? I can't see it. Pointing out that other songs are also sexist changes that exactly not at all.

"No Scrubs" is a fun pop song that also happens to make RL men feel bad about their limitations as compared to fantasy success objects. "No Scrubs" is also a fun pop song that reifies quaint notions of what women ought to expect from a man. Note that nowhere do TLC, in their infinite wisdom, suggest that such concerns as Does he subtly undercut me? Does he make me feel good about who I am as I am? Does he encourage me to achieve despite my fear of failure? Is he, in fact, a (mighty) Good Man? enter into the Scrub/Not Scrub determination.

So yeah, the song reifies gender stereotypes that most posters on ILX (per the original thread, 90% of them male), seem to perceive, from what I can gather as confining at best and tremendously damaging at worst to all of us living in The Modern World Of Today.

OF COURSE no scrubs is "sexist." How and why are worth discussing, although I freely concede that "No Scrubs" is a trivial case. Implying that you don't feel welcome to join the discussion because of your gender seems (imho and only imho) like a bit of a cop-out, especially given that this was a pretty lighthearted thread until I went on this out-of-all-proportion rant.

Which I haven't really earned, since I'm totally new here.

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 06:26 (twenty years ago)

Losers yelling at girls from cars is of course so dud it's classic.

cf, in fact, Ice Cube:

We didn't get no play, from the ladies
With six niggaz in a car are you crazy?
She was scared, and it was showin
We all said "Fuck you bitch!" and kept goin

Oddly, Ice Cube has been name-checked prolly more than any other artist in the course of today's gender threads. It strikes me that he's quite OTM in those lines about the way that the threat of male violence is so intimately related to male insecurity and profound fear of female/maternal rejection.

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 06:34 (twenty years ago)

rogermexico OTM.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 09:14 (twenty years ago)

Which Cube track is that? The last line's on De La Is Dead.

― BARMS, Wednesday, 22 June 2005 09:55 (twenty years ago)

Well there's sexist and there's sexist...

― Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 22 June 2005 11:43 (twenty years ago)

More OTM than this thread:

" No scrubs, indeed! We have come a long way from 'I Love You Porgy.' How would Porgy fare with TLC? I suspect he would be shit out of luck."

http://www.michaelkelly.fsnet.co.uk/TLC.htm

― Sasha (sgh), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 11:51 (twenty years ago)

What's wrong with being sexy?

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 12:48 (twenty years ago)

x-post
Orbit, I'm not saying one is better than the other; what should disturb you about "No Scrubs" and its ilk - the I'm-an-expensive-concubine subgenre of female rap/r'n'b - is that the game is still being played by the men's rules: how is TLC's stance different from "Hos didn't want me / Now I'm hot / Hos all on me"? I mean, it conforms to the same crass logic, only from the female perspective. Shouldn't you be more pissed at TLC for playing along?

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 13:14 (twenty years ago)

the Cube lyrics are from NWA's Gangsta Gangsta - a LOT of that song is about how male braggadacio is entirely defensive and reactive rather than representative of genuine power or self-confidence. There's a great sequence where he goes to a party, tries to pick up a girl, is told that she has a boyfriend - he responds by immediately accusing her of lying, comforts himself by mentally asserting that she must be a lesbian, and then immediately tries to pick a fight with a whole group of blokes to distract himself from the rejection and limpness of his own internal justifications and behaviour.

― kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 13:53 (twenty years ago)

Funniest Ice Cube defensive retaliation:

"dumb ass hooker ain't nothin' but a dyke..."

x-post

― PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 14:19 (twenty years ago)

Ice Cube is a fascinating guy. Everyone associated with NWA ought to send him annual royalty checks for being the mind, heart and soul behind their success.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 14:24 (twenty years ago)

We've also come a long way from "A Bicycle Built For Two":
http://chris.kom.com/daisybell.html

And "Loving Pauper"
http://www.johnnyspencer.info/imagetexts09/lovingpauperDD.htm

― Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 22 June 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

you gotta admit, in many situations, a guy hangin out the side of his best friend's ride trying to holler at a girl can be really charming in a sad puppy kinda way.

― Fetchboy (Felcher), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 14:59 (twenty years ago)

Well the guy on shotgun's gotta do it 'cause the other guy is driving.

― Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 22 June 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

The D.O.C., Ice Cube, and Dr. Dre are fascinating guys. Jerry Heller and Priority Records ought to send them annual royalty checks for being the mind, heart and soul behind their late 80's success.

― PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 15:11 (twenty years ago)

Dr. Dre can go jump in a river; I still haven't fully forgiven him for Eminem.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 15:14 (twenty years ago)

So would you say Dr. Dre can stick to the rivers he's used to instead of chasing waterfalls?

― PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 15:15 (twenty years ago)

....waterfalls are stationary. there is no need to chase them. sure, the water is falling, but the falls themselves stay as put as the rivers you're used to. that song makes no sense.

― m0stly clean cos i scrub so hard (m0stly clean), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 22:13 (twenty years ago)

All of "Waterfalls" is actually pretty incoherent...

"3 letters took him to his final resting place..." er, A-I-D?

Plus the disconnect between the "be happy with what you got" verse-chorus and the "believe in yourself/chase your dreamz" rhymin' at the end.

Not baldly sexist though. Unless we want to start investigating the "wise woman patiently loving her prodigal son" trope...

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

"3 letters took him to his final resting place..."
G A T ?
U Z I ?
T L C ?

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 22:55 (twenty years ago)

a little context (and remember we're talking 1994):

Little precious has a natural obsession
For temptation but he just can't see
She gives him loving that his body can't handle
But all he can say is baby it's good to me
One day he goes and takes a glimpse
In the mirror
But he doesn't recognize his own face
His health is fading and he doesn't know why
3 letters took him to his final resting place
Y'all don't hear me

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 23:04 (twenty years ago)

S T D !

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 23:12 (twenty years ago)

I feel so much better now! And I'm usually so good at crossword puzzles...

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 23:18 (twenty years ago)

Uh, it's gotta be H-I-V, though, right?

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 23:23 (twenty years ago)

i have been pwned by tlc.....

― m0stly scrub (m0stly clean), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 23:26 (twenty years ago)

Uh, it's gotta be H-I-V, though, right?

Yes yes, spoil the all the fun with your eminently reasonable and completely accurate response. I dub thee Joe C.

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

T-C-B

― rogermexico., Wednesday, 12 September 2007 23:08 (eighteen years ago)

ysi

― never acid again, Wednesday, 12 September 2007 23:43 (eighteen years ago)

Never Forget 8.-(

― Chewshabadoo, Thursday, 13 September 2007 10:37 (eighteen years ago)

Dr. Dre can go jump in a river; I still haven't fully forgiven him for Eminem.

-- The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:14 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

Wait what?

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 13 September 2007 10:38 (eighteen years ago)

If you don’t have a car and you’re walking
Oh yes son I’m talking to you ....

Was this middle eight written by Brian Clough?

― Mark G, Thursday, 13 September 2007 10:42 (eighteen years ago)

BestoftheRomanianWeb.jpg

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 13 September 2007 12:14 (eighteen years ago)

"To please me and bounce from here to the coast of overseas" is genius!

I loved it when Marjorie Dawes did a version of No Scrubs on Shooting Stars.

If you have a shorty that you don’t show love

eh?

If you don’t have a car and you’re walking

should we assume that TLC would not be swayed by an environmentalist argument? "Sure I could *afford* a car, but think of the *planet*, love".

― Grandpont Genie, Thursday, 13 September 2007 12:23 (eighteen years ago)

"shorty" = girlfriend
"that" = to whom

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 13 September 2007 12:38 (eighteen years ago)

that's craziness! some girls are tall!

― Grandpont Genie, Thursday, 13 September 2007 12:48 (eighteen years ago)

what should disturb you about "No Scrubs" and its ilk - the I'm-an-expensive-concubine subgenre of female rap/r'n'b - is that the game is still being played by the men's rules: how is TLC's stance different from "Hos didn't want me / Now I'm hot / Hos all on me"? I mean, it conforms to the same crass logic, only from the female perspective. Shouldn't you be more pissed at TLC for playing along?

This and a few other posts up there - yeesh - sure seems like a lot of hand-wringin' was going on. If you were a rich celebrity, would you want some maladjusted broke-ass dude, who already has a girlfriend, to be yelling shit out of his friend's window at you? Does it have to be any deeper than that? Was it possibly inspired by a real person?

― rockapads, Saturday, 15 September 2007 01:48 (eighteen years ago)

lol @ single cover:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Tlc-noscubs2.jpg

― Curt1s is coming to Zwinktopia !, Saturday, 15 September 2007 02:16 (eighteen years ago)

noscubs2.jpg

― Curt1s is coming to Zwinktopia !, Saturday, 15 September 2007 02:16 (eighteen years ago)

someone's using a system w/MS-DOS FAT

― Curt1s is coming to Zwinktopia !, Saturday, 15 September 2007 02:17 (eighteen years ago)

i agree with both joseph cotten and rockapads!

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 17 September 2007 09:38 (eighteen years ago)

four years pass...

this thread

― preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 April 2012 19:52 (fourteen years ago)

this video was sexxxy as hell

― Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Thursday, 5 April 2012 19:59 (fourteen years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJYL4odVu3s

― piscesx, Thursday, 5 April 2012 21:19 (fourteen years ago)

One of the worst answer songs of all time.

― Chewshabadoo, Thursday, 5 April 2012 22:42 (fourteen years ago)

i keep trying to remember how this song goes and i just keep hearing "bills, bills, bills" in my head instead

― the late great, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:04 (fourteen years ago)

why the fuck would you post that in 2012 or indeed ever piscesx

― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 April 2012 23:30 (fourteen years ago)

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