Are guitar solos not as awesomely advanced as they used to be?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Progress, people! Progress!

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 27 June 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

Context, Chief, Context!

What would you regard as a or the highwater mark(s) of awesomely advancedness in guitar solos? How about the current nadir?

And advanced, meaning - hilarious, over-the-top technique? Where-the-fuck did that idea come from? Or I could never play that in a million years? Or some combo of the three?

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Monday, 27 June 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

Invent new scales! We're running out here!

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 27 June 2005 14:44 (twenty years ago)

sometimes i wish some of these modern art-metal doofuses would get over their punk rock disdain for soloing. who wouldn't love an isis song with a long-ass fuzz-drenched acid-metal solo in the middle of it? i don't know how advanced it would be, but it would cheer me up!

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 27 June 2005 14:47 (twenty years ago)

but, anyway, lotsa triumphant orchestral power-metal being made as we speak is plenty advanced. you just wouldn't listen to any of it. or maybe you would. i should never assume. i like it fine. and lotsa death metal too, come to think of it.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 27 June 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

Prog, people! Prog!

Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 27 June 2005 14:53 (twenty years ago)

I kind of like that conversation in Some Kind of Monster where Ulrich says there shouldn't be a guitar solo because solos are dated. Hammett says that not having a solo makes the song dated--to right now.

Metalheads be philosophers, yo.

The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Monday, 27 June 2005 14:53 (twenty years ago)

I was just thinking about the solo from One actually. Now THAT'S the kind of solo I'd actually like to hear make a comeback.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 27 June 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

Good, I'm glad! I'm not very fond of solos, especially not the heavy power-chord noodling riffage. So indigestible.

Ian Riese-Moraine eats nation-states for breakfast! (Eastern Mantra), Monday, 27 June 2005 14:59 (twenty years ago)

Can you give an example of "heavy power-chord noodling riffage"?

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 27 June 2005 15:00 (twenty years ago)

... 'cos it's sounds fuckin' great!

Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 27 June 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

I kind of like that conversation in Some Kind of Monster where Ulrich says there shouldn't be a guitar solo because solos are dated. Hammett says that not having a solo makes the song dated--to right now.

The expression on Kirk's face when Lars tells him that he doesn't want solos is one of the greatest things of all time

Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Monday, 27 June 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

hammet otm

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 27 June 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

sometimes i wish some of these modern art-metal doofuses would get over their punk rock disdain for soloing. who wouldn't love an isis song with a long-ass fuzz-drenched acid-metal solo in the middle of it? i don't know how advanced it would be, but it would cheer me up!

Not necessarily in JUST art metal, but I think Scott's hit on the core here – most of the bands that have really interesting guitars players that might be capable of having cool solos tend to be of the mind that solos are passe or dumb or whatever...

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 27 June 2005 15:46 (twenty years ago)

Stupid yet relevant shit I wrote for somethinge else:

Guitar solos can serve one of two functions within a song. They can serve a repetitive function, by reinforcing a melodic theme that has already been introduced (see most Kurt Cobain solos, which typically follow the vocal melody of the song). This type of solo, although it serves a purpose, doesn't interest me that much, as the way it works is pretty obvious. I'm more interested in the incongruous solo; that is, the solo that works by introducing a new sound to the song.
An incongruous solo can be incongruous in a number of ways. It can introduce a new melodic theme. I'm having trouble thinking of an example of this, but trust me, they exist. If done properly, this could be the most satisfying type of solo, as it could work as an addition to the song structure as opposed to being superfluous. The solo can be stylistically incongruous. For example, the heavy metal guitarists tended to base their solos off of classical themes of pomp and virtuosity, to contrast with more traditional "rock" aspects of the rest of the song. A solo can also be incongruous by means of sound; for example, a heavily processed electric guitar in a primarily acoustic song, or vice-versa. Thus we get the cliche of the guitarist frantically stepping on several effects pedals just before the solo starts, hopefully timing it so that a sudden burst of feedback or amp noise leads right into the awesomeness.
The problem with the incongruous solo is that incongruity fades. What was incongruous for one generation becomes the norm for the next. When we hear a metal solo today, we don't hear classical themes, we hear metal themes, and a metal solo in a metal song just isn't that interesting. Indie bands tended to adopt an intentionally hamfisted or incompetent soloing style. This started as an aural joke, an anticlimax, before losing its incongruity and becoming the "accepted" style.
I'm not sure what the next step for the guitar solo is. It would be naive to proclaim that the guitar solo is dead, but I'm having trouble imagining how it can stay vital.

Guitar solos for study and discussion:
Brian Eno - "The Paw-Paw Negro Blowtorch" (soloist: Adrian Belew)
Silkworm - "Miracle Mile" (soloist: Andy Cohen)
The Kinks - "You Really Got Me" (soloist: Ray Davies or Dave Davies, I can never remember which one's which)

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 27 June 2005 15:51 (twenty years ago)

I find the vast majority of musicians in the indie/punk/hardcore world, at least the ones that I met/play music with, are vehemently anti-guitar solo.
It comes off like a learned behaviour more often than not. And, to be blunt, most of the anti-soloists have ZERO capability to play a decent guitar solo, funny enough.
I'm not much of a Hammett fan. I loved him as a teenager, but listening back, the majority of his solos were so clinical. They leave me super cold.
I wish there was more stylists in the Richard Thompson/Tom Verlaine vein. I actually quite like a lot of what Malkmus has been doing guitar-wise these last two solo albums.
As far as guitar goes, I'm more interested in the tonal/textural possibilities these days. So I find myself gravitating towards the likes of Fennesz, Rafael Toral and Keith Fullerton Whitman.
Even the Kevin Shields approach is unexplored. I think there will be some pretty amazing DSP-based guitar music in the next ten years.

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Monday, 27 June 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

Silkworm - "Miracle Mile" (soloist: Andy Cohen)

word! I LOVE Andy Cohen...one of the few indie rock dudes that does great solos on a consistent basis.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 27 June 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

Seriously.

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 27 June 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

>Brian Eno - "The Paw-Paw Negro Blowtorch" (soloist: Adrian Belew)

dood, that ain't belew on "paw paw negro blowtorch" it's either manzanera, chris speding or the man his self..

Brad Laner (Brad Laner), Monday, 27 June 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

i agree that it is too bad there aren't more guitarists in the vein of tom verlaine/richard thompson playing today--guys who are exploratory, have serious chops, but whose chops don't interfere (usually) with the raw emotional texture of their solos. one guy who doesn't get mentioned a lot is Sean Eden (ex Luna), whose playing seems to me to be the perfect synthesis of Verlaine and the VU's Sterling Morrison. On the last Luna tour earlier this year, he was doing some wonderful and subtle things on his solos.

tylerw, Monday, 27 June 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

Guitar solos should not be "subtle."

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 27 June 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

really? they should all be overblown and wanky?

tylerw, Monday, 27 June 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

I second the Luna love. That pleasant laid-back thing in "Tigerlily" rules.

The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Monday, 27 June 2005 17:12 (twenty years ago)

I think that, so long as the solo goes along with the song and is expressive rather than a repetitive rehash of earlier ideas (OTM re: Hammett, Brooker), its a valid part of a song.

Randy Rhodes is grave turning! (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Monday, 27 June 2005 17:18 (twenty years ago)

sometimes i wish some of these modern art-metal doofuses would get over their punk rock disdain for soloing. who wouldn't love an isis song with a long-ass fuzz-drenched acid-metal solo in the middle of it? i don't know how advanced it would be, but it would cheer me up!

it's not acid-metal, but the wah-wah solo in 'Zozobra' makes my fucking day every time i hear it. it is perfect, and one of my favorite solos in a long time.

ugly and mean, Monday, 27 June 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

The Kinks - "You Really Got Me" (soloist: Ray Davies or Dave Davies, I can never remember which one's which)

dave.

(i'm pretty sure ray doesn't play at all on that track. if i've got my history right, it's jimmy page on rhythm, dave davies on lead, and ray just singing. i mean, not "just" singing. but just, um, singing.)

fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 27 June 2005 18:37 (twenty years ago)

Straw-thread.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 27 June 2005 18:59 (twenty years ago)

Guitar Solos: Not Just For Guitar Anymore!

One of the (many) things I love about Cyndi Lauper's She's So Unusual is how many of the songs, aside from being synth-based, have chirpy little synthesizer solos inserted into the songs, in the exact spots where you'd expect to find guitars if you'd purchased a record by, say, Pat Benatar instead. And those solos apparently only existed to create a momentary diversion or spotlight a cool sound, rather than personal expression or even just showing off.

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 27 June 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.