Yacht Rock

She knows how much I enjoy the Yacht Rock genre (especially Mike "The Beard" MCDonald"), so how caould I not...

Would this be the right place to request a Rough Guide to Yacht Rock?

RFI: I'm making a Yacht Rock mix, of all the good and the bad. Ferrinstance, "What a Fool Believes" is a great song. "Sweet Freedom" is bloody awful. I digress.

What is the song near the beginning of the first episode, the next song you hear after "Sweet Freedom," that starts playing just as the scene wipes in, with the tinkly guitar? It was a huge hit, I know. But what is it? It's like some kinda proto-lite-rock-song. I need it for my mix.

Also, I need some other gaps filled in. The list I have is too sparse. I have:

Kenny Loggins - This Is It
Steely Dan - Peg
Doobie Brothers - What a Fool Believes
Hall and Oates - Sara Smile
Christopher Cross - Sailing
Loggins and Messina - Whenever I Call You Friend
Steely Dan - Time Out of Mind
Doobie Brothers - How Do the Fools Survive?
Michael McDonald - Sweet Freedom
Kenny Loggins - I'm Alright

And some non-canonical stuff, like Spyro Gyra. Man, if that's not yacht, I don't know what is.

Anyway. Help would be appreciated. Thkx.

Yes it would!

Franke & the Knockouts, "Sweetheart"
Pablo Cruise, "Place in the Sun"
Little River Band, "Reminiscing"

p.s. "Whenever I Call You Friend" was Loggins & Nicks, not Messina. :)

Little River Band is perfect.

Because:
Lady Love - Jon Lucien
Help Me - Joni Mitchell
Honolulu City Lights - The Beamer Brothers

It took a couple of viewings, but I think it's up there with the back-alley songwriting dual.

Between the hair and spectacles, Toto ruled.

Stay smooth!

Bless you J. D. Ryznar. I saw these films for the first time today. I have loved this intricate, ever so smooth, late 70's Fagen/McDonald inflected cheeseball music for such a long time, but never knew what to call it. Yacht Rock it is. I eagerly await the 5th installment, and the sure to be heavy dose of 80's Michael McDonald that it will contain (Sweet Freedom, I Keep Forgettin', Yah Mo Be There).

Since it seems you check on this thread from time to time:

The movies are brilliant, I particularly enjoy the use of Breezin' by George Benson in the first episode, Jeff Baxter's slow nod of understanding, Jeff Porcaro's three step plan to seduce Michael McDonald and the rage, passion and wild unkempt mane of John Oates.

I second the call for Seals and Croft (and Player, the Little River Band and "Games People Play" by the Spinners). If I was on the correct coast I would beesech you to let me play Jim Seals or...guy from Player...in an upcoming installment.

Air Supply needs to be in there somewhere don't they? Were they not the kings of Yacht Rock?

Cetera's savage beating at the hands of Oates notwithstanding, 80's Chicago should be featured prominently as well.

This music is brilliant, and your films are obviously a labor of love. Keep it up.

Here's my digital signature saying "this is a free idea to be used by the makers of yacht rock at their own will, although no offense taken if used, rejected, abused, or otherwise. :) "

More Pablo Cruise, please!

Sirius XMs Yacht Rock station is a monstrosity

Lionel Richie and Billy Ocean are yacht-adjacent. The doc certainly discusses how Black artists influenced/inspired the music but were not in the same spotlight.

Also (challops coming) Air Supply!

Lots of artists making similar soft-rock music are not classified as (ahem) Yacht-thentic Yacht Rock because they didn't include that specific group of session players anf producers with their jazz chops and their work ethic.

Air Supply would have been Yacht As Fuck if they'd moved to LA (indeed, they thought about it)!

Billy Ocean worked in London and NY; Lionel Richie had Motown and it's infrastructure. Neither one needed LA session players, strictly speaking.

But it would be interesting to hear what they would have sounded like with the Yacht production style.

One might call it a Yacht-ternative universe.

My friend who's seen the film told me this story last night:

https://axs.tv/news-story/steely-dans-donald-fagen-curses-out-yacht-rock-documentary-director/

When Price called Fagen, hoping to discuss his role in yacht rock, the conversation quickly turned awkward. Upon hearing Price mention "yacht rock," Fagen responded with a curt, "Why don't you go fuck yourself?" before hanging up. Despite this brusque dismissal, Fagen's manager later called back to grant permission for the documentary to use six Steely Dan songs, suggesting a mix of aversion and acknowledgment toward the genre.

Donald Fagan: "I don't even own a yacht!"

It's funny that Loggins was initially offended by the label, but seems to have come around. One of the Yacht Rock guys told a story about his wife meeting Loggins and when she told him she was married to a guy from the web series he got totally icy.

But it would be interesting to hear what they would have sounded like with the Yacht production style.

I mean, "All Night Long" kinda is? Def. session cat heavy. Keys are by Greg Phillinganes, drums by JR Robinson, Abraham Laboriel on bass, Richard Marx on backing vox ... Def. the same vibe as, say, Michael McDonald's "Sweet Freedom." "Caribbean Queen" sorta sound like Michael McDonald, too, come to think of it. Fun new-to-me facts from the wiki:

The song was initially released in the UK as "European Queen" in May 1984, but it did not achieve success. As suggested by people at the record company, it was re-recorded for different parts of the world—resulting in the versions "Caribbean Queen" and "African Queen."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcA3eDbYVJM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evfHpU9bn4w

I just encountered the term "Yacht Soul," which seems pretty sus.

not only is the jersey on point, but Cross completely rips on guitar in this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpBi1-ts_0k

"Yacht Soul" initially makes me think of tracks like "Street Life", "Breezin'" and "What You Won't Do For Love", but maybe those are more "Yacht Jazz?"

George Benson's "Turn Your Love Around" is basically the "What a Fool Believes" of Yacht Soul

I didn't realize just how many songs completely copped that "What A Fool Believes" riff. It was such a part of the general soft rock ecosystem back then that it seemed to just be an organic part of the genre, but of course it had to come from somewhere.

I wrote an essay for maura a decade ago on the "What a Fool Believes" craze -- stuff like Pointer Hands' "He's So Shy" and Robbie Dupree's "Steal Away." Those syncopations.

Clemenza, here's a slightly different account upthread:

The director recounted this in an interview. He waited for months for Fagen to watch it because he had never signed off on so many Steely Dan songs in one project. Eventually a manager called and said that Fagen was gonna call and you need to record the conversation and find a way to put it in the doc and then he'll sign off on it. So Fagen called, gave him the quote (after the director accidentally hung up and Fagen called back), and a few days later they got the go ahead to use the music. If he was actually an asshole about it he would have just denied them the rights.

― Gukbe, Wednesday, December 4, 2024 9:14 PM (one week ago)

Either way, it was important to Fagen to be seen as granting rights while disparaging (or seemingly to disparage) the whole thing.

Weird, I searched "Fagen" and "fuck" and didn't get anything...maybe I didn't have all answers open.

Note to self: do not Google "Fagen" and "fuck"

lol otm

Alfred, is that essay out there anywhere? The Maura Magazine page only has her first 26 issues.

I like how that 'What a Fool Believes' riff even found its way into the guitar interludes of Jackson Browne's 'Somebody's Baby'.

Also, the CVC album mentioned above is quite the enjoyable listen. Like if My Morning Jacket went through their 'Circuital' era in the late '70s

Came across this one after listening to some Yacht Jazz.

This is so groovy. Love the bass player.

Ramsey Lewis - Summer Breeze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6j6Zk945ZY

The Yacht Rock podcast guys claim that Summer Breeze is Nyacht Rock (too early), but that song has such great bones that it really lends itself to interpretation.

Here's another favorite (from an album that features not 1 but 2 Seals & Crofts covers):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06u6GXuS0mU

watched this and now i wanna hear christopher cross’s “bowling” song

The alley can do miracles

Well the ball rolls down and it's a strike
And that's ten points for me

Is there a thread specifically about the "MTV really doomed us old guys who weren't photogenic" trope? Been on my mind since the doc - it's such established conventional wisdom, but I can't help but think maybe the bigger issue was that styles change, trends change, and there was a demographically significant cohort of teenagers coming up who responded more to these newer acts. I mean it's not like these dudes had spent the 70s strenuously avoiding having their pictures taken.

Also since like Dire Straits, Genesis and ZZ Top were able to thrive

Also the groups that came up after punk were more dress-up compared to the groups that had come up in the Woodstock era that were more dress-down. And the new groups were more likely to come from the art world, and the more connections they had to that world the more likely they were to make good videos.

Also since like Dire Straits, Genesis and ZZ Top were able to thrive

- Dire Straits were in the "Money For Nothing" video for about 5 seconds (see also Herbie Hancock in "Rockit"), and their other video was a collection of sports clips set to their song
- ZZ Top turned themselves into cartoon characters
- Genesis realized that Phil Collins had been a cartoon character all along

was gonna say, the money for nothing animation video really created new fans. i was in middle school and me and my friends all loved that video. plus the sting guest shot, lol

How does this disprove the point that these non-models found a way to thrive in the MTV era?

the obvious counterpoint to the yacht rock guys' lament is that the 80s are filled with old guys who had hit records. i'm not the first to point this out, but a surpsingly high number of acts whose careers started in the 60s were getting legimitate radio hits well into the mid- and late 80s

ultimately i think doctor casino is otm, the decline of yacht rock has more to do with a general change in trends than "christopher cross was too ugly"

You're saying Jon Anderson wasn't on the wall of every teenaged girl in America in 1984?

to add to that: yacht rock was aimed, I think, at people who were already around or over 30 by 1980, maybe by 1975. their target audience probably was not relying on MTV to find their new records, but maybe they were buying fewer new records period. i'd buy that a lack of MTV exposure limited the likelihood of a Cross-level crossover. but the pop charts being ruled by world-weary ballads of middle-aged uncertainty was always a time-limited phenomenon.

just once it'd be great to hear one of these guys go "in the 90s, VH1 came along and completely saved my career - all of a sudden, i could reach my same old audience! and you if you were a fresh young good looking kid with a 'cool' haircut, you'd never make it!"

Is this considered yacht rock?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmHh9IqN5uk

Nope

49.5 on the Yachtski scale

city pop def a spiritual cousin to yacht rock

I feel like the issue with transitioning to the MTV era was less about whether you were intrinsically "photogenic" than whether you were actually interested in attending to the new cultural demands around cultivating an image. I got the impression from the doc that some artists weren't able to make the leap because they simply didn't feel like it was their job to care about making music videos, or they didn't feel equipped to build a new set of skills. Meanwhile, others embraced it.

a lot of the guys were originally session musicians if used being in the background, so it would make sense that they didn’t feel comfortable as “tv stars”

also, craig jenkins linked to this thread in his excellent new nymag article about yacht rock, luther vandross, and the boundaries of genre: https://www.vulture.com/article/luther-vandross-documentary-yacht-rock.html

you know who cleaned up well for the 80s? these guys. they were dirty hippies in their hit-making youth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt4cR9szMS8

i mean all those rockers were dirty hippies at the beginning. but some people really washed the stench off.

just once it'd be great to hear one of these guys go "in the 90s, VH1 came along and completely saved my career - all of a sudden, i could reach my same old audience! and you if you were a fresh young good looking kid with a 'cool' haircut, you'd never make it!"

Michael Bolton to thread.

I'm glad Craig cited Brenda Russell -- women are too often left out of this tale, and Russell's first two albums are among my favorites from this era.

Kudos too for citing this Luther jam. Check out the first 30 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de0R9UCyuas

brenda russell had a talking head in the yacht roc doc, and i think the quote craig cites in his article is from that interview

A while back, AllMusic did this feature where they had a bunch of writers list their favorite "yacht rock" albums of all time or something. Andy Kellman just listed a bunch of smooth r&b albums and was sort of like like "why is yacht rock called rock, it's just white dudes doing r&b".

Tbf that’s what rock’n’roll is too

lol troof

lol! #HeGotchaThere

The OGs did a women of yacht episode in 2016
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6aJArQWK13r1YMwApRA3VE?si=49-rKIvOTvWQaPc33PBCiQ

Well hey! https://sites.libsyn.com/483276/choochoos

alright!