Yacht Rock

She knows how much I enjoy the Yacht Rock genre (especially Mike "The Beard" MCDonald"), so how caould I not...

Would this be the right place to request a Rough Guide to Yacht Rock?

RFI: I'm making a Yacht Rock mix, of all the good and the bad. Ferrinstance, "What a Fool Believes" is a great song. "Sweet Freedom" is bloody awful. I digress.

What is the song near the beginning of the first episode, the next song you hear after "Sweet Freedom," that starts playing just as the scene wipes in, with the tinkly guitar? It was a huge hit, I know. But what is it? It's like some kinda proto-lite-rock-song. I need it for my mix.

Also, I need some other gaps filled in. The list I have is too sparse. I have:

Kenny Loggins - This Is It
Steely Dan - Peg
Doobie Brothers - What a Fool Believes
Hall and Oates - Sara Smile
Christopher Cross - Sailing
Loggins and Messina - Whenever I Call You Friend
Steely Dan - Time Out of Mind
Doobie Brothers - How Do the Fools Survive?
Michael McDonald - Sweet Freedom
Kenny Loggins - I'm Alright

And some non-canonical stuff, like Spyro Gyra. Man, if that's not yacht, I don't know what is.

Anyway. Help would be appreciated. Thkx.

Yes it would!

Franke & the Knockouts, "Sweetheart"
Pablo Cruise, "Place in the Sun"
Little River Band, "Reminiscing"

p.s. "Whenever I Call You Friend" was Loggins & Nicks, not Messina. :)

Little River Band is perfect.

Because:
Lady Love - Jon Lucien
Help Me - Joni Mitchell
Honolulu City Lights - The Beamer Brothers

It took a couple of viewings, but I think it's up there with the back-alley songwriting dual.

Between the hair and spectacles, Toto ruled.

Stay smooth!

Bless you J. D. Ryznar. I saw these films for the first time today. I have loved this intricate, ever so smooth, late 70's Fagen/McDonald inflected cheeseball music for such a long time, but never knew what to call it. Yacht Rock it is. I eagerly await the 5th installment, and the sure to be heavy dose of 80's Michael McDonald that it will contain (Sweet Freedom, I Keep Forgettin', Yah Mo Be There).

Since it seems you check on this thread from time to time:

The movies are brilliant, I particularly enjoy the use of Breezin' by George Benson in the first episode, Jeff Baxter's slow nod of understanding, Jeff Porcaro's three step plan to seduce Michael McDonald and the rage, passion and wild unkempt mane of John Oates.

I second the call for Seals and Croft (and Player, the Little River Band and "Games People Play" by the Spinners). If I was on the correct coast I would beesech you to let me play Jim Seals or...guy from Player...in an upcoming installment.

Air Supply needs to be in there somewhere don't they? Were they not the kings of Yacht Rock?

Cetera's savage beating at the hands of Oates notwithstanding, 80's Chicago should be featured prominently as well.

This music is brilliant, and your films are obviously a labor of love. Keep it up.

Here's my digital signature saying "this is a free idea to be used by the makers of yacht rock at their own will, although no offense taken if used, rejected, abused, or otherwise. :) "

More Pablo Cruise, please!

... & the lyrics were written on a drive through Texas on LSD.

audiences also reacted favorably to the fact that Christopher Cross actually killed all those dudes

Fagen’s “part” in the doc really rubbed me the wrong way

Like the day after I saw it, I was eating Nathan’s cheese fries during lunchtime on the street near Radio City, listening to Steely Dan on shuffle, and I just kept thinking, “this guy is really an asshole these days”

Steely Dan Member In Being An Asshole SHOCKAH!

Well yeah, I guess I knew that. I guess it was the aggression that shocked me

The documentary was really enjoyable, and made me want to listen to a lot more of this stuff. I've been operating for some years now on a theory that "fusion" isn't just chopsy jazz-rock from the early 70s, it's an overall ethos governing music from roughly 1969-1975 that allowed for all sorts of novel combinations of sounds and styles. So the Fania All Stars were a fusion group. Santana was absolutely fusion. Fela was fusion. Earth, Wind & Fire were fusion. Etc., etc. And now I'm kind of starting to think about the yacht rock universe of players as the next step after fusion. Informed by jazz, by rock, by singer-songwriterism, by funk and R&B, but creating something entirely new.

One thing I wish was dealt with more was how much of the music was inspired by the producers and/or the industry as a whole. Because for example, there's just one tiny little clip of Ted Templeman, who produced every Doobie Brothers album, talking about how they could basically play anything. But if you read Templeman's autobiography, you really get a much stronger sense that the Doobie Brothers were at least half his weird little project, like, any weird idea he had, he'd throw at them, and they'd be able to execute it, so that's why their albums sound so wildly different from track to track, from boogie-rock to white soul to weirdo Brazilian easy-listening jazz tunes... it was Templeman using them as his hired players! And, I mean, the Toto guys are brilliant musicians, but they're not Donald Fagen and Walter Becker-level creative spirits. They can play anything you want, but they don't have very many lightning-strike brilliant ideas of their own.

Like the day after I saw it, I was eating Nathan’s cheese fries during lunchtime on the street near Radio City, listening to Steely Dan on shuffle, and I just kept thinking, “this guy is really an asshole these days”

The director recounted this in an interview. He waited for months for Fagen to watch it because he had never signed off on so many Steely Dan songs in one project. Eventually a manager called and said that Fagen was gonna call and you need to record the conversation and find a way to put it in the doc and then he'll sign off on it. So Fagen called, gave him the quote (after the director accidentally hung up and Fagen called back), and a few days later they got the go ahead to use the music. If he was actually an asshole about it he would have just denied them the rights.

yeah totally

plus it just fits with my idea of him & he probably understands his brand more than anyone by now

Also very much fits the Dan's profile as New Yorkers who ended up in LA, versus SoCal lifers - something not really played up by the doc but imo not without meaning in distinguishing then from their peers and followers in the smooth session world.

Just watched that doc (thanks for the tip, Yacht Rock thread!)
I think what made it so interesting is that the talking heads (huey, ryznar, jason king, amanda petrusich) weren't just spitting "without michael mcdonald there would be no ___" cliches, but were really able to offer some real analysis and insight.
It didn't hurt that the director could basically get interviews with any of the major players that he wanted to, apart from fagan. I don't think I had ever even seen a photo of Christopher Cross before today.

yeah you can appreciate that a lot of thought went into it

Christopher Cross wearing an Earl Campbell jersey is basically just everything that’s good about America. pic.twitter.com/z2xjfpp8Ww

— Super 70s Sports (@Super70sSports) September 29, 2023

Agreed, this is a dope look
Looks kind of like a pajama shirt on bro
And that double neck seals it

cross representing texas 4ever

clear eyes, full hearts, sailing

Cross’s voice is like a baritone munchkin

no thats yr mom

Wow, this was sooo good.

I really liked hearing a lot of these artists talk about the moments they wrote the songs that defined their careers forever, like David Pack from Ambrosia talking about touring with the Doobies and how that led to a convo with Michael McDonald telling him how he read classical music.

It was great to see Prince Paul talk so enthusiastically about the genre and to learn he sampled "Peg" in De La Soul.

So many little stories like that. They got amazing archive footage. It's just very well done, a total feel-good movie.

little feat is yacht rock i am not accepting questions at this time

― mark s, Wednesday, August 8, 2018 7:43 AM (six years ago) bookmarkflaglink

i would accept at least Time Loves A Hero as yacht rock (there's even Michael McDonald BVs!). commercial success kinda seems like a prerequisite, though, there aren't really any cult yacht rock bands, are there?

Ned Doheny may count? plus all the other stuff on: https://numerogroup.com/products/seafaring-strangers-private-yacht

I thought I knew my Yacht Rock but I was totally unfamiliar with Ambrosia before watching this

Also on Numero, I'd recommend Willie Wright for some prime Yacht Soul: https://williewrightnumero.bandcamp.com/album/willie-wright-telling-the-truth

Thought the doc was pretty great! I was expecting more cringe with the credit sequence and the footage of the current day yacht rock cruises, but this was surprisingly thoughtful. I could quibble about things, but I thought it was time well spent. Already liked Michael McDonald, but I was surprised by how much I liked Christopher Cross. Seemed like a chill dude at this point in time. Fagen's cameo was so in character, I loved it.

The font and yellow color they used for some of the titles was perfect. Shows the level of care and appreciation for the story

I really want to see this but don't have access yet. Was talking with a friend tonight who has, and apparently my definition of the genre has been wrong the whole time--I always thought of it more in terms of a timeline, as K-Tel type music but shifted to the late '70s rather than the early-middle part of the decade. So in my own mind, this belonged, but I guess not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RamSFoo0jw

I'd never seen that clip until today.

ohh i love Magnet & Steel

but yeah not Yacht by their metric really. But for me personally, in that “AM Gold” way, very much in that kind of vibe

Walter Egan is Cali-pre-goth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud5Bb32U7gI

Lots of great vintage pictures in the show. I thought it was really fun.

Not sure I had ever seen a picture or film of Ted Templeton before.

I haven't seen the doc yet, but my buddy was disappointed that they didn't find a way to include Lionel Richie or Billy Ocean.

Sirius XM's seasonal Yacht Rock station plays "Magnet and Steel" fairly regularly, so it is considered Yacht by some loose metrics.

Crazy how Buckingham and Nicks found time to tour, record, and produce/sing for/with others (Egan, John Stewart, Kenny Loggins, Bob Welch).

Sirius XMs Yacht Rock station is a monstrosity

Lionel Richie and Billy Ocean are yacht-adjacent. The doc certainly discusses how Black artists influenced/inspired the music but were not in the same spotlight.

Also (challops coming) Air Supply!

Lots of artists making similar soft-rock music are not classified as (ahem) Yacht-thentic Yacht Rock because they didn't include that specific group of session players anf producers with their jazz chops and their work ethic.

Air Supply would have been Yacht As Fuck if they'd moved to LA (indeed, they thought about it)!

Billy Ocean worked in London and NY; Lionel Richie had Motown and it's infrastructure. Neither one needed LA session players, strictly speaking.

But it would be interesting to hear what they would have sounded like with the Yacht production style.

One might call it a Yacht-ternative universe.

My friend who's seen the film told me this story last night:

https://axs.tv/news-story/steely-dans-donald-fagen-curses-out-yacht-rock-documentary-director/

When Price called Fagen, hoping to discuss his role in yacht rock, the conversation quickly turned awkward. Upon hearing Price mention "yacht rock," Fagen responded with a curt, "Why don't you go fuck yourself?" before hanging up. Despite this brusque dismissal, Fagen's manager later called back to grant permission for the documentary to use six Steely Dan songs, suggesting a mix of aversion and acknowledgment toward the genre.

Donald Fagan: "I don't even own a yacht!"

It's funny that Loggins was initially offended by the label, but seems to have come around. One of the Yacht Rock guys told a story about his wife meeting Loggins and when she told him she was married to a guy from the web series he got totally icy.

But it would be interesting to hear what they would have sounded like with the Yacht production style.

I mean, "All Night Long" kinda is? Def. session cat heavy. Keys are by Greg Phillinganes, drums by JR Robinson, Abraham Laboriel on bass, Richard Marx on backing vox ... Def. the same vibe as, say, Michael McDonald's "Sweet Freedom." "Caribbean Queen" sorta sound like Michael McDonald, too, come to think of it. Fun new-to-me facts from the wiki:

The song was initially released in the UK as "European Queen" in May 1984, but it did not achieve success. As suggested by people at the record company, it was re-recorded for different parts of the world—resulting in the versions "Caribbean Queen" and "African Queen."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcA3eDbYVJM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evfHpU9bn4w

I just encountered the term "Yacht Soul," which seems pretty sus.

not only is the jersey on point, but Cross completely rips on guitar in this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpBi1-ts_0k

"Yacht Soul" initially makes me think of tracks like "Street Life", "Breezin'" and "What You Won't Do For Love", but maybe those are more "Yacht Jazz?"

George Benson's "Turn Your Love Around" is basically the "What a Fool Believes" of Yacht Soul

I didn't realize just how many songs completely copped that "What A Fool Believes" riff. It was such a part of the general soft rock ecosystem back then that it seemed to just be an organic part of the genre, but of course it had to come from somewhere.

I wrote an essay for maura a decade ago on the "What a Fool Believes" craze -- stuff like Pointer Hands' "He's So Shy" and Robbie Dupree's "Steal Away." Those syncopations.

Clemenza, here's a slightly different account upthread:

The director recounted this in an interview. He waited for months for Fagen to watch it because he had never signed off on so many Steely Dan songs in one project. Eventually a manager called and said that Fagen was gonna call and you need to record the conversation and find a way to put it in the doc and then he'll sign off on it. So Fagen called, gave him the quote (after the director accidentally hung up and Fagen called back), and a few days later they got the go ahead to use the music. If he was actually an asshole about it he would have just denied them the rights.

― Gukbe, Wednesday, December 4, 2024 9:14 PM (one week ago)

Either way, it was important to Fagen to be seen as granting rights while disparaging (or seemingly to disparage) the whole thing.

Weird, I searched "Fagen" and "fuck" and didn't get anything...maybe I didn't have all answers open.

Note to self: do not Google "Fagen" and "fuck"

lol otm

Alfred, is that essay out there anywhere? The Maura Magazine page only has her first 26 issues.

I like how that 'What a Fool Believes' riff even found its way into the guitar interludes of Jackson Browne's 'Somebody's Baby'.

Also, the CVC album mentioned above is quite the enjoyable listen. Like if My Morning Jacket went through their 'Circuital' era in the late '70s

Came across this one after listening to some Yacht Jazz.

This is so groovy. Love the bass player.

Ramsey Lewis - Summer Breeze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6j6Zk945ZY

The Yacht Rock podcast guys claim that Summer Breeze is Nyacht Rock (too early), but that song has such great bones that it really lends itself to interpretation.

Here's another favorite (from an album that features not 1 but 2 Seals & Crofts covers):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06u6GXuS0mU