Explain me Motown

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I've heard certain songs by bands like Hal and Belle and Sebastian being described as having a Motown-feel to them. Based simply and sadly on my Grandparents' record collection, I always thought Motown was all about the Commodores and stuff like that.

I need a guide to Motown - what, when, how, who, why? What are the classics and what are the duds?

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 4 July 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

Wait, HAL? Those lamers? If they have any Motown connection, it's Motown if it was led by Ray Conniff rather than Berry Gordy.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 4 July 2005 17:56 (twenty years ago)

Absolutely essential Motown tracks by the guys:
Ain't Too Proud To Beg
I Can't Help Myself
Tracks Of My Tears
You've Really Got A Hold On Me
I Second That Emotion
My Girl
Heard it through the Grapevine (Marvin Gaye's)

And the girls:
Where Did Our Love Go
You Can't Hurry Love
Stop in the Name Of Love
Nowhere To Run

And the Five:
The Love You Save
ABC
I Want You Back

Later Motown is all about Stevie and Marvin:
What's Going On
Superstition
Mercy, Mercy Me
Signed, Sealed, Delivered I'm Yours

After that things go downhill and you get Maxwell.

― The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Monday, 4 July 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

I always thought Motown was all about the Commodores and stuff like that.

The original, typical, Motown sound didn't exist anymore around the formation of The Commodores. So, no.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 4 July 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

get a good singles comp, I guess, and then Gaye's "Here, My Dear" and the Miracles' "City of Angels." And I suppose "Innervisions."

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 4 July 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

This question seems so odd to me.

― Sixty eight (David Allen), Monday, 4 July 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

Treat yourself to the Hitsville USA - Singles 1959 - 1971 box set (here). Also worth getting is the Motown Connoisseurs series.

― bg (creamolafoam), Monday, 4 July 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

I'd suggest starting with the Four Tops: The Ultimate Collection. Some of the best-known examples of Holland-Dozier-Holland songwriting, a lot of diverse material, never gets old.

Standing in the Shadows of Motown is also essential for its highlighting of the Funk Brothers' talent as well as the enduring quality of so many of those songs.

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Monday, 4 July 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

Also worthwhile: Machine Gun by the Commodores!

― Myonga Von Booty (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 4 July 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

That Standing In The Shadows film is a disgrace. Unwatchable. Whoever decided to stick Ben Harper and that 'What if God was one of us' woman in should be dismissed from pop culture immediately.

― Affectian (Affectian), Monday, 4 July 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

Just heard "Machine Gun" at the closing of the Paco Doubledown Variety Hour last week. What a great, great song.

Completely disagree on Standing in the Shadows. Ben Harper and Meshell Ndege'ocello weren't great fits, but Joan Osborne was perfect for "What Becomes of the Broken Hearted." And how could you not love Bootsy on "Do You Love Me"?

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Monday, 4 July 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

I didn't like how they tried to drag Motown into the 90s (00s?) with those awful nu-soul-lite acts. They made it all slick and shiney which isn't what Motown means to me. It's been a while since I seen it but I remember finding the reenactments corny as hell too, I switched it off halfway through. There's a fantastic documentary to be made about Motown but I honestly don't think this is it. I've got this video of the Ready Steady Go Motown special, hosted by Dusty Springfield, and it's fabulous. One day I'll rip it to avi and host it somewhere.

― Affectian (Affectian), Monday, 4 July 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

The key artists of the classic era are the Supremes, Temptations, Four Tops, Smokey Robinson & the Miracles, Marvin Gaye, Martha & the Vandellas, Stevie Wonder and the Jackson 5. Get a best-of of one of these and go from there. The Ultimate Collection series has good, remastered sound, but unfortunately the tracks are not in chronological order (which totally annoys me).

Standing in the Shadows is worthwhile for fans but for newbies I'd say not so much.

― Keith C (kcraw916), Monday, 4 July 2005 23:50 (twenty years ago)

DL - get Motown Gold : http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005QX5I/qid=1120550744/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_11_2/202-7092718-4484663

The other key artist not mentioned by Keith is Gladys Knight. Don't miss her!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 07:10 (twenty years ago)

also the Marvelettes - 20,000 times superior to the Supremes, but Gladys Horton didn't shag Berry Gordy and that's why.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 07:16 (twenty years ago)

I think one of the Motown sound elements that leads to the indie schmindie comparisons is the drums. Martha and the Vandellas is the first example that springs to mind: there's a ton of reverb on the drums, they sound like they've been recorded down the end of a tunnel. The Jesus and Mary Chain's Psychocandy cops this effect, and I assume influenced quite a chunk of the Scottish indie scene that followed.

― Taste the Blood of Scrovula (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 07:50 (twenty years ago)

i think that's more a spector influence though - even if spector might have copped a trick or two from hitsville detroit (baby i need your loving vs you've lost that lovin' feelin' etc.).

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 07:56 (twenty years ago)

but the kind of drum sounds you get on psychocandy and similar are of the be my baby type rather than the dancing in the street type. the latter is more four-to-the-floor, somewhat sinister, vaguely ominous, as if signalling imminent rebellion (and indeed the drummer on DITS, marvin gaye, recycled the same pattern and amplified it for grapevine).

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 07:58 (twenty years ago)

The Spector thing didn't occur to me, which is funny cos as soon as you say it it's blindingly obvious. "Dancing in the Streets" seems atypical as a Vandellas track to me, for some reason.

― Taste the Blood of Scrovula (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 08:04 (twenty years ago)

Don't hear much Spector in Motown (nor vice-versa) myself, but one shared element was, indeed, excellent drum sounds (and drummers.) They were produced to leap out of your car's AM radio, and that's what they did. Mostly because of that reverb-y studio where everything was recorded, Motown hits were INSTANTLY identifiable as such, until the '72 move to Los Angeles.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 08:41 (twenty years ago)

ditto the person above who said get motown gold, its 3 CDs long and has virtually every major 60s motown song that you need for a primer.

― ppp, Tuesday, 5 July 2005 08:57 (twenty years ago)

My favourite Motown song: 'Heaven must have sent you' by the Elgins. Sends my spine into fuzzy spasms. Marvelettes are great too, 'Beechwood 4-5789' is classic and I have an mp3 of 'Only your love can save me' which claims to be them and is fantastic. 'Stoned Love' by The Supremes is another superb track that's often overlooked. But basically you can get any 60s-based Motown compilation and you'll be guaranteed at least 80% greatness. I grew up on a dbl cd compilation called Motown Dance Party which will always be one of favourite compilations.

― Affectian (Affectian), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:02 (twenty years ago)

Rare Earth!

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

Just kidding.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

BLACK PEOPLE

― Esteban Buttez (Esteban Buttez), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:14 (twenty years ago)

Re Standing in the Shadows of Motown - I thought Joan Osborne's performance of "Heatwave" (one of my absolute fave motown tracks) was really excellent, very brassy.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)

Motown was a number of sounds, had different styles and different eras (naturally). Their girl groups had more churchy hand-clippity-claps than the girl groups on other labels. The Supremes were a lousy girl group that morphed into a great proto-disco wet dream; the Marvelettes were a great girl group that were at a loss when the Supremes' success changed the rules (though the Marvelettes' Supremesish wet dream "Hunter Gets Captured by the Game" is my favorite Motown song ever, which demonstrates once again that all my generalizations founder). [And generally the producers/songwriters called the shots, not the groups, so when I say the Marvelettes were at a loss, I mean that the label was at a loss as to what to do with them. (And Stevie and Marvin becoming their own producers is what brought Motown into the album era)(though that generalization doesn't work with Smokey).]

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:31 (twenty years ago)

Punctuation note: I didn't know what to do with my final period, did I?

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:35 (twenty years ago)

The Temptations in their Whitfield-Strong era ("Cloud Nine" and "Papa Was a Rolling Stone") helped invent dub-metal.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

(And Rare Earth helped invent dumb metal.)

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:38 (twenty years ago)

I enjoyed "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" though I don't think it really is supposed to function as an introduction to Motown. It's more like a revisionist history for those who are already familiar with the basic Motown story - the point is to give credit to the unsung musicians who brought the music to life - but you won't learn very much about the main songwriters/producers associated with the label.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:41 (twenty years ago)

MONO MIXES

― Marxism Goes Better With Coke (Charles McCain), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

the Marvelettes' Supremesish wet dream "Hunter Gets Captured by the Game" is my favorite Motown song ever

ABSOLUTELY OTM

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 21:33 (twenty years ago)

I really like some of the later stuff.

The Temptations Psychedelic Soul
Willie Hutch The Mack
The Jackson 5 Dancing Machine
Smokey Robinson Quiet Storm
The Miracles City of Angels
Diana Ross Diana (produced by The Chic Organization)

"Walk Away From Love" -- David Ruffin
"It's A Shame" -- The Spinners
"War" "25 Miles From Home" -- Edwin Starr
"Girl You Need A Change of Mind" "Date With The Rain" "Keep On Trucking" "Boogie Down" -- Eddie Kendricks
"Smiling Faces Sometimes" "Law of the Land" -- The Undisputed Truth
"Get Ready" "I Just Want To Celebrate" "Born to Wander" "Hey Big Brother" "Ma" -- Rare Earth
"Stoned Love" "Floy Joy" "Let Yourself Go" The Supremes
"Don't Leave Me This Way" -- Thelma Houston
"Got To Give It Up" -- Marvin Gaye
"Brick House" "Machine Gun" "Nightshift" -- Commodores
"Cruising" "Being With You" -- Smokey Robinson
"That Girl' -- Stevie Wonder
"Let It Whip" -- Dazz Band
"Let Me Tickle Your Fancy" -- Jermaine Jackson
"Rhythm of the Night" -- DeBarge
"Somebody's Watching Me" -- Rockwell
"Don't Look Any Further' -- Dennis Edwards

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

four years pass...

I've just today come to the extremely belated conclusion that Motown is the single greatest record label ever to have existed in terms of ethos, breadth, consistency, imagination and pure hit rate. No other label or imprint can touch it.

Oder?

― Background Zombie (CharlieNo4), Monday, 3 August 2009 15:04 (sixteen years ago)

Can't argue with that.

― Chewshabadoo, Monday, 3 August 2009 15:42 (sixteen years ago)

i'll say it again, that standing in the shadows film was one big steaming pile of cash-in shit. how could they get it SO wrong

― NI, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 09:59 (sixteen years ago)

"Walk Away From Love" -- David Ruffin

song is amazing

― amateurist, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 10:51 (sixteen years ago)

so has anyone been buying those "complete motown singles" things? only one volume left to go, i believe. i don't have the cash, but jesus...

― amateurist, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 11:16 (sixteen years ago)

who has the time to hear them all

― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Tuesday, 4 August 2009 11:23 (sixteen years ago)

Thought this revive was going to be about recent Supremes bio.

― Horace Silver Machine (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 7 August 2009 02:28 (sixteen years ago)

In which Jack Ashford both vigorously defends the Funk Brothers legacy and claims that most of the stories about them were made up by him, presumably to mess with Slutsky.

― Horace Silver Machine (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 7 August 2009 22:27 (sixteen years ago)

Matos review of said book: http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-supremes,30144/

― Horace Silver Machine (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 10 August 2009 01:19 (sixteen years ago)

I just watched the Temptations miniseries--when I checked it out of the library I thought it was just footage of the Temps. Turns out it was some made-for-tv thing that would never end. It was good in the late 50s when the boys were just singing on street corners and getting started and wearing pegged jeans with loafers, but then it would never end. I had to fast forward through the last half of it. No wonder--just found out it was 4 hours long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Temptations_(TV_miniseries)

Recently read Barry Gordy's biography, after interest being resparked after seeing him speak at MJ's funeral. Might read Smokey's bio next, maybe not. Read Nelson George's book on Motown--surprisingly wasn't that insightful to me.

― Virginia Plain, Monday, 10 August 2009 16:14 (sixteen years ago)

VP, you should read the Marvin Gaye bio Divided Soul by David Ritz. You could also read the Dennis Coffey book, I know QBPL has a copy.

― Horace Silver Machine (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 10 August 2009 16:20 (sixteen years ago)

Thanks for recs. I kind of want to read "Dancing in the Street: Motown and Cultural Politics of Detroit" but I fear I am too lazy. I love Marvin Gaye. I checked out his "Live in Montreaux" video, which I think was recorded the year before his death. It was good, but I think I fell asleep in the middle.

― Virginia Plain, Monday, 10 August 2009 18:53 (sixteen years ago)

i hadn't noticed before today how much of a motown cop hall & oates's "maneater" is!

nelson george's book is zzzzzzzzz. so is david ritz's marvin gaye bio. i wish i knew some good writing on motown.

― amateurist, Monday, 10 August 2009 22:47 (sixteen years ago)

I just watched the Four Tops 50 year anniversary celebration. I thought it would be cheesy, but it was actually very strong. Levi Stubbs came out in a wheelchair for one song with Aretha Franklin that was very affecting.

Motown v Stax Smackdown on WNYC Soundcheck right now.

― Virginia Plain, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 18:22 (sixteen years ago)

is the berry gordy book worth reading? it's been a few years since i read smokeys. i enjoyed it but it got incredibly bleak & sad toward the end (think he wrote it in the late 80s, early 90s, just after he fixed the crack habit)

― NI, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 20:00 (sixteen years ago)

smokey robinson had a crack habit?

― thomp, Wednesday, 12 August 2009 02:17 (sixteen years ago)

that's actually a massive downer to think about

― thomp, Wednesday, 12 August 2009 02:17 (sixteen years ago)

I was surprised to learn recently about Smokey's late-period coke habit, but I assumed it was powder, no? Crack would be really o_O

― & they talked about "fucking a behive", literally, 4 times (Whitey on the Moon), Wednesday, 12 August 2009 02:25 (sixteen years ago)

Berry Gordy's book is a light, easy read. Apparently he and Marvin were into the coke as well. It's slanted very favorably to Gordy, of course. The one surprise I had was that Gordy actually came from a prominent African American family--I think their picture was in Life Magazine in the 40s.

― Virginia Plain, Wednesday, 12 August 2009 14:11 (sixteen years ago)

twelve years pass...

RIP at 93 guitarist Joe Messina from Motown’s Funk Brothers band

http://www.soultracks.com/story-joe-messina-dies

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 5 April 2022 16:35 (three years ago)

My hero! RIP :(

― Came Here to Roll the Microscope (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 5 April 2022 16:37 (three years ago)

Messina was a teen guitar prodigy at Detroit’s Cass Tech high school, and as a young man became part of the ABC television network studio band, where he had the opportunity to work with many of the all-time jazz greats, from Charlie Parker to Dizzy Gillespie

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 5 April 2022 16:38 (three years ago)

My understanding was that that was on the Soupy Sales show and that pretty much any touring jazz act that came through would play on that.

― Came Here to Roll the Microscope (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 5 April 2022 18:47 (three years ago)

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/entertainment/people/2022/04/04/joe-messina-motown-guitarist-and-member-funk-brothers-has-died-age-93/7271120001/

― Came Here to Roll the Microscope (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 5 April 2022 18:47 (three years ago)

two months pass...

Recommend me some obscure sublime tracks...I get tired of working my way through the catalog.

Thanks!

― I Met Mr. Mathis (I M Losted), Monday, 27 June 2022 18:23 (three years ago)

i and others have beaten the drum for solo Eddie Kendricks in case you haven't heard those albums

― Heez, Monday, 27 June 2022 18:42 (three years ago)

Seconding.

Nixon-era Motown is tops: spookier, thicker bottom.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 June 2022 18:44 (three years ago)

I've always liked this Spinners track from the band's early Motown era (when they were variously credited as the Detroit Spinners or the Motown Spinners).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmMlVm85RRQ

― Les hommes de bonbons (cryptosicko), Monday, 27 June 2022 18:54 (three years ago)

This whole album is great, but this is especially magical
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWNwpCnraIc

― politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Monday, 27 June 2022 19:10 (three years ago)

Nixon-era Motown is tops: spookier, thicker bottom.

this immediately popped in my head when i read that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99FrA6KAua0

― Heez, Monday, 27 June 2022 19:46 (three years ago)

Stop the War, also off that Temps album, is S*T*U*N*N*I*N*G

― politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Monday, 27 June 2022 21:47 (three years ago)

seven months pass...

Barrett Strong, Motown artist known for ‘Money,’ dies at 81

― knock-knock-knockin' on kevin's door (morrisp), Monday, 30 January 2023 05:29 (two years ago)

two months pass...

Realised today that of course The Complete Motown Singles are on streaming! When the CDs of that came out I felt like it was a step too far for me as a collector, yet I felt slightly sad that I wouldn't be taking the plunge.

― Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 2 April 2023 15:45 (two years ago)

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