Bands that, despite seemingly having mainstream appeal, remain commercially unsuccessful.

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It occured to me when listening to a few tracks from the new Leaves album that theres no reason why the band couldn't be really big. Similarly, The Czars have three very solid albums yet still play tiny venues and are meaningless to the most casual music fans.
What is it that bands like these are missing that makes other generic indie bands so successful? Or is it just that the indie kids haven't been told to like them by the NME?

― dmun drive-in (dmun), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:30 (twenty years ago)

the answer's in your post - "solid." not spellbinding, or outrageous, or zeitgeist-lucky, or scream-out-loud bloody awful - just "solid." it sits there. not doing anyone any harm but no one would go out of their way to examine it.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:35 (twenty years ago)

sounds like a number of successful bands?

― charltonlido (gareth), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:50 (twenty years ago)

but yes, solid is such a great back-handed compliment...

― charltonlido (gareth), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:51 (twenty years ago)

Fwiw I thought the last Czars album wasn't merely "solid" but actually came pretty close to "spellbinding": but then my tastes aren't exactly commercially mainstream.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:57 (twenty years ago)

Have you received your copy of Escalator Over The Hill yet?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:59 (twenty years ago)

Ozric Tentacles!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:01 (twenty years ago)

i have never actually heard Ozric Tentacles.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:01 (twenty years ago)

I think I heard Spock's Beard once.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:02 (twenty years ago)

"Have you received your copy of Escalator Over The Hill yet?"

I have indeed and have had a sneaky preview skipping through a few tracks but haven't had time to digest yet.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:03 (twenty years ago)

I have never heard Spoon. But, in that perfect world that exists within a rock critic's skull, Spoon are tops!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:04 (twenty years ago)

I'm not at all sure I know what qualities a band needs in order to have mainstream commercial appeal these days.

I think I understood how it worked in the '70's and '80's and probably through as far as Britpop; but I'm not at all sure I do any more.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:09 (twenty years ago)

Apparently these days it is important for a band to be "fit."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:10 (twenty years ago)

One of the special features on my girlfriend's O.C. DVD told me that one of the fellas from Spoon shares with John Ashcroft a phobia of black cats. That is just the sort of factoid that the kids love (might not be true)

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:10 (twenty years ago)

http://img.nesteklikk.no/2005-1/51213.jpg

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:10 (twenty years ago)

Apparently these days it is important for a band to be "fit."

http://redoks.blogspirit.com/images/medium_keane.3.jpg

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:12 (twenty years ago)

"Apparently these days it is important for a band to be "fit.""

Aaaaah. You mean they need to take plenty of exercise because of their wild and physically demanding live performances?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:14 (twenty years ago)

But really, it's all about money.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:24 (twenty years ago)

You mean they need to take plenty of exercise in order to carry their money around?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:26 (twenty years ago)

i have never actually heard Ozric Tentacles.
-- scott seward (skotrok@*********.***), July 5th, 2005.
I think I heard Spock's Beard once.

-- scott seward (skotrok@*********.***), July 5th, 2005.

Ozric Tentacles = (at their best) Gong w/o vocals. Spock's Beard = nothing like thee Ozrics, Spock's Beard = the prog rock heebeegeebees, but not funny.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:28 (twenty years ago)

exactly! the "fit" thing is correct though too. you can't be too fat or they won't show your video. Especially if you are a woman.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:29 (twenty years ago)

were Hawkwind commerically successful?

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:30 (twenty years ago)

commercially, that is. probably in the u.k. they were.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:30 (twenty years ago)

Hawkwind had a nr2 hit in 1972, so I suppose yes, they were.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:31 (twenty years ago)

In the UK Hawkwind only really had one big hit single ("Silver Machine" - actually a #3 hit) and another minor hit ("Urban Guerilla," which would have been considerably more successful had the BBC not banned it) but they were of course essentially an albums act, and had 13 hit albums in the UK during the period '71-'82.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:34 (twenty years ago)

Are you implying Hawkwind had "mainstream appeal"??!!??!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:35 (twenty years ago)

....and had 13 hit albums in the UK during the period '71-'82.

suggests yes!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:36 (twenty years ago)

it brings a tear to my eye. i suppose i should be thankful that the once mighty United Artists label put their records out at all in the states. Thank you, Mary Pickford!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:36 (twenty years ago)

Maybe, but, for instance, "The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter" was a Top 5 album but could hardly be described mainstream - apart from in Narnia maybe (xpost)

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:38 (twenty years ago)

That was only one album, though! 13 hit albums does imply some level of mainstream appeal, surely!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:39 (twenty years ago)

Ah, but the ISB were hip and cool at the time (the parallel analysis of the UK singles and albums charts from the late '60s/early '70s is instructive - in the album listings it's all Floyd, Zep, Beefheart, Zappa, Fairports, whereas in the singles chart it was Donald Peers, Clodagh Rodgers and Edison Lighthouse all the way.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:41 (twenty years ago)

Phish never had a hit single. But they have probably sold a zillion records. But they are an anomaly. or an anemone.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:44 (twenty years ago)

Ditto the Grateful Dead, "Touch Of Grey" notwithstanding.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:45 (twenty years ago)

exactly. they are the exceptions. you would have a hard time finding someone who could tell you anything about phish, and yet, they are massively popular.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:46 (twenty years ago)

This is taking me back to the heady days of "turntable hits" - remember them?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:47 (twenty years ago)

the expression is vaguely familiar, but no.

I have the sudden urge to hunt around for a set of Hawkwind UA albums in the fancy fold-out sleeves.

In retrospect, the '70's "mainstream" was a pretty weird place, perhaps.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:50 (twenty years ago)

I've got "Space Ritual" in the fold out sleeve! A "turntable hit" is a song that was played a lot on radio but never actually became a hit

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:51 (twenty years ago)

For instance, "Moonlight Feels Right" by Starbuck.

Space Ritual in the foldout sleeve was a big record in my schooldays - I think it was because we were all into sci-fi/Marvel comics at the time and it fitted in with the Michael Moorcock connection and all that.

It doesn't convey anything like the same mystery in its CD edition - you have to have the original vinyl.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:53 (twenty years ago)

OH! Right. I used to have them all (hawkwind recs), but sold them & put the money towards my Wiard synthesiser . I still have "Glastonbury Fayre". The best one was "Warrior on the Edge of Time", b/c the sleeve folded out into a chaos shield!!

Actually, I do still have the slides from the German issue of "Quark, strangeness & Charm".

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:54 (twenty years ago)

The CD of "Space Ritual" has a picture of Lemmy on it, where he actually looks really good-looking!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:55 (twenty years ago)

I suppose he did have a certain swarthy charm in his Sam Gopal/pre-Motorhead days.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:56 (twenty years ago)

"This is taking me back to the heady days of "turntable hits" - remember them?"

Do the terms "singles act" and "albums act" still carry the same weight as they used to?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:57 (twenty years ago)

Plus, some great pics of Nik Turner w/black nail varnish, where he looks totally demented. There's one w/Turner playing his Sax, and Stacia is dancing in the background, and it's like the ultimate image of rock & roll mentalism.

X-post amazingly enough, yes, he did.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:57 (twenty years ago)

Nik Turner was only in the band for his looks anyway

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:58 (twenty years ago)

I refused to give up my cassette copy of space ritual when i was mugged by three gents late at night years ago. i went home with it snug in my pocket. that's my testimonial.

UA was THE greatest american rock label in the 70's. Can, Hawkwind, Buzzcocks, Stranglers, Damnation Of Adam Blessing, oh, i could go on and on. Greg Shaw had something to do with it, i think. Who else would have put out that krautrock that sold NOTHING.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:59 (twenty years ago)

... and Amon Duul II

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:00 (twenty years ago)

I know. And Popol Vuh! Amon Duul II and Brass Construction! wotta label.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:03 (twenty years ago)

...and Bobby Goldsboro

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:04 (twenty years ago)

Kind of hard to tell what he looked like under that frog-mask, though!

Turner wrote "D-Rider", which is my favourite ever Hawkwind song. He also wrote "Brainstorm" and "Masters of the Universe", IIRC.

x-post ua also put out neu and neu 2 in the uk. I used to have the pressing of neu! w/sleevenotes by Dave Brock himself!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:05 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah, that's right, Neu! too!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:06 (twenty years ago)

It was Andrew Lauder who was responsible for signing all the Krautrock acts at UA

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:06 (twenty years ago)

my copy of the first neu is on that label, whatamacallit, the one that put out lucifer's friend records.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:07 (twenty years ago)

I can't understand how The New Pornographers aren't massive.

― Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:07 (twenty years ago)

maybe greg shaw was responsible for my fave forgotten UA masterpieces. Thunder & Roses, Adam Blessing, Valhalla, etc.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:08 (twenty years ago)

i think the only way you could get groovy tunes in the u.s. in the 70's, other than thru UA, was via virgin and harvest imports.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:10 (twenty years ago)

or charisma imports. if you were in the mood for a string-driven thing.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 11:14 (twenty years ago)

[tangent]

> shares with John Ashcroft a phobia of black cats

Actually, John Ashcroft's phobia is of calico cats, IIRC: He thinks they're a portent of the devil, reportedly. Yay for theocracy!

[/tangent]

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 12:17 (twenty years ago)

The Glands. They should have been a huge indie band like the Shins on the strength of their 2000 album, "The Glands." But it sank like a stone and apart from some touring (opening for the Shins, ironically) they haven't been heard from since.

― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 12:43 (twenty years ago)

Well, in the UK, we never quite took to Hootie and the Blowfish or the Dave Matthews Band. Is that just good taste or luck????? (I'm sure they're not crying over loss of revenue exactly)

― Kim Tortoise, Tuesday, 5 July 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

Super Furry Animals.

― gorge (gorge), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 22:38 (twenty years ago)

Kitchens of Distinction! Sure, "Drive That Fast" got to #12 on the modern rock charts here in the States in 1991 -- and sure, Strange Free World hit #45 in Britain -- but they're seemingly very neglected and it's an outright travesty, as half of their output could have been hits were they promoted correctly!

― Ian Riese-Moraine has been xeroxed into a conduit! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 23:43 (twenty years ago)

I think they might've been a bit too literate at times, though. You always have to dumb down/condescend/pander for commercial success, or at least make your lyrics unassuming (see Scritti Politti), or make the listener hear every word (see "Once in a Lifetime").

― Ian Riese-Moraine has been xeroxed into a conduit! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 23:44 (twenty years ago)

re: Scrits -- make your lyrics seem unassuming in a pop context, rather, and focus more on the pop vocals^

― Ian Riese-Moraine has been xeroxed into a conduit! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 23:45 (twenty years ago)

65% of everything of I've posted on my blog to thread.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 23:49 (twenty years ago)

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