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Is this a good idea or bad idea?

Why or why not?

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:34 (twenty years ago)

conflict of interest

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

I mean, if Vice can start a label...

...on the other hand, there's a weird "review site vs. conflict of interest/PR" issue there.

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

Speaking of Conflict... *coughGerardCosloycough*.. I figure that zine was what essentially a part in what got the gears going for the birth of Matador. Granted, Conflict had to *end* before that happened.

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

Vice has been unkind in reviews to Vice Records releases in the past. While the records certainly deserved thrashing, it makes you wonder why they bothered releasing them in the first place.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

I'm pretty sure Gerard was writing Conflict at the same time he was in the employ of Homestead.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

One would suspect that the people signing acts and releasing the records are not the same people who are reviewing them, despite them all working for the same ultimate corporate entity.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

bad idea

― sovietpanda (sovietpanda), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

So, I guess a business idea is the line between patting oneself's back and conflict of interest, then.

I never got to read Conflict.. I just know of its existence, and have read a few choice quoted quips from it. I don't know if Gerard was hyping the bands he helped get on Homestead on it, but I'd guess he wouldn't cross that line.

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

this is all hypothetical, right? there's nothing on the PF site about it and google doesn't turn anything up.

― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

Unless I'm a divine prophet (hahahahaha), this is indeed hypothetical.

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

It's a good idea if the records are good, which I doubt they would be.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

What's more questionable is the relationship between Vice magazine and Addvice marketing. But these are common relationships these days. Fader/Cornerstone etc. Vice mag might trash their own record releases, but do the trash stuff other clients pay them to promote through Addvice?

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

Correction: it's a good idea if they put Jess on A&R.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

I mainly proposed this hypothesis because of the Vice thing.. as they do review records and release them, and -- so far -- it's worked for them. Granted, Vice magazine is not a music magazine per se as much as a fashion magazine... whereas Pitchfork has strictly been about reviewing music.

Is there an obvious precedent of a well known music-review-publication-cum-record-label that I'm missing?

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:46 (twenty years ago)

Also, say what you want about PFM, but even the worst Pitchfork review is about 100 times more worthy than an entire month's issues of Vice magazine record reviews.

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

That kind of goes without saying, doesn't it?

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

Fat Lace Magazine effectively became Antidote Records, but I doubt you could call either of them "Well known".

The title of this thread made me hit myself on the head for above five seconds.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

Whenever I see PFM on this site I immediately think "Premiata Forneria Marconi"

― zaxxon25 (zaxxon25), Thursday, 14 July 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

pitchfork has reviewed its own writers' cds before.

ROLLIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Michael Burble, Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

ROLLIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And that was after Ryan canned him!

― save the robot (save the robot), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

So should Time-Warner (or whatever they're calling themselves now) owned mags refrain from reviewing albums released on Warner Music? (though isn't Warner music actually owned by Sony now or something?)

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

Why not? Because they already promote The Wilderness like they're the second coming of the Strokes we-were-on-the-bandwagon-first era.

The Wilderness are shit, BTW. And anyone who says otherwise are friends of the band.

― Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

Forced Exposure

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

And that was after Ryan canned him!

seems sort of arbitrary to fire just one of their writers

― Michael Burble, Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

Didn't everyone in the '80s have a zine and a label?

― mcd (mcd), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

Forced Exposure was also a distributor, so if you read the magazine you'd get these brutal reviews, then you'd read the distributor fax and it'd just quote the one sheet. But I don't see this as a conflict of interest in the same way. Aquarious writes bad reviews of music they carry, not a zine but same difference. No, with Vice, a record label, a promoter, a DJ, a cable tv station PAYS them to sell their product. If said payee then saw their product being trashed and made fun of in the magazine, they'd be mighty pissed, no?

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

The Wilderness are shit, BTW. And anyone who says otherwise are friends of the band.

I say otherwise, and I've never met the band once!

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

"The Wilderness are shit, BTW. And anyone who says otherwise are friends of the band."

bah.
m.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

"NEW YORK CITY/WHAT A PITY"

- The Wilderness

― Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:19 (twenty years ago)

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1997/1101970721_400.jpg

― älänbänänä (alanbanana), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

This kind of shit happens all the time. CNN was on the other day and they ran a five minute informercial for the new HBO film Girl in the Cafe - they had put together a special clip package that highlighted the G8 angle, different from the promos that HBO runs that sells it as a romantic comedy.

In the '90s we called it "syngery."

― save the robot (save the robot), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

All that said, I don't know why anyone would want to start a record label, they're almost guaranteed to be a pain in the ass and a money-loser. If Ryan wanted some easy cash he should sell t-shirts and merchandise.

― save the robot (save the robot), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

The Wilderness is PIL Karaoke redux for the 21st Century for the under 25s, i.e born after 1980 and after early PIL. Correct?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:36 (twenty years ago)

Dan, thank you.. yes, Forced Exposure. I KNEW I was forgetting an example, and FE was it. But you're right. That's a different setup. They're not unlike Bananafish or Ptolemaic Terrascope or Bad Idea or Yeti in that they often released music as a peripheral to the zine. However, Forced Exposure goes (or went?) the furthest as far as the record label side issues. Then again, I don't think the two sides ever strayed for too long on its own without the other.. and FE also distributed other releases as well, so they also were partially a distributor, which kinda cancels out any conflict-of-interest issues.

And I'm familiar with them enough to have read a few issues, and own a few of their release.. but my question is: was Forced Exposure started as a zine/label from the beginning? Or did one come after the other?

Because, in this hypothetical case of Pitchforkmedia Records, the label would be coming later than the publication, obviously. But I'm curious if it could work -- and if FE was a publication well before it started a label/distribution.

(I don't doubt the top staff at Pitchfork have talked about this, incidentally.)

Keyword: "almost"

Pitchfork has proven to make waves (whether ILM's care to like that or not.) There's no reason to completely discount the success of a record label if they started one. Also releasing records carries a certain "charity" value that selling t-shirts and merch don't.

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

(as much as many people here know better about the "releasing records = charity" thing. Some people honestly do. Some people VERY DISHONESTLY do. Some people don't.)

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

i'm not allowed to answer that shit cause the bullshit is under investigation jeeves.

i do know those guys. i knew them in a sort of previous bands and sthings. all i'm sayin is... they deserve better than lazy crit wannabes tagging them as PIL cover bands.

they're genuinely talented. and i'd put their musical influences more in early rem, cocteau twins, with a lungfish attention to lyricism.

have you seen them live? cause i personally think that's where it's at.

maybe i'm cracked cause i know them, or fudged because i have roots very much like they do... but i think there's more than just bullshit ripped from a promo paragraph.
m.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

and i'm talking about wilderness there... not pitchfork....haha!
m.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:43 (twenty years ago)

I think the idea of 'Freaky Trigger Records' strikes to the very heart of geezaesthetics.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

I guess ILX is a record label already!

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

flipside never had anything bad to say about anti scrunti faction.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:48 (twenty years ago)

Did people buy their book?

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

See, people like PFM website, just like people like Britney Spears. It's cool when each is doing their thing (being a website/singing songs), but when one tries to another thing (like when Britney became a website), people know enough about what they like about what the primary function.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:53 (twenty years ago)

donut, g3rard isn't matador's founder.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

I never got to read Conflict.. I just know of its existence, and have read a few choice quoted quips from it. I don't know if Gerard was hyping the bands he helped get on Homestead on it, but I'd guess he wouldn't cross that line.
Conflict was so evasively sarcastic that I'm not sure it would have mattered if he did (I'm not motivated enough to check the dates on who got written about when and how). I contacted him once about reprinting some issues online, but he's opposed to the idea except in very limited circumstances. He mentioned the possibility of reissuing it in book form, which would be wonderful. I'm not holding my breath. Too bad, as there's a lot of info in Conflict that can't be found on the net.

― dlp9001, Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

aie, then scratch my whole Conflict/Matador analogy then. xpost.

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)

they're genuinely talented. and i'd put their musical influences more in early rem, cocteau twins, with a lungfish attention to lyricism.

"NEW YORK CITY/WHAT A PITY"

- The Wilderness

― Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Thursday, 14 July 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

just curious, where is that in their lyrics? i don't see it in the written lyrics.
m.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 14 July 2005 20:32 (twenty years ago)

It was in a song I saw them to live at oenida or whateve rit's called. then The Apes went on and blew them off the stage. so it might have been improvised, but that's no excuse, really.

― Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Thursday, 14 July 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

well... i suppose if you didn't dig it you didn't dig it.

i just know how easy it is to dismiss a band cause there's so many that suck. there's no shortage of postpunk craptassles gettin high marks from pfm either. these guys have always just consistently struck me as on some sort of righteous path integrity-wise. as acquaintances, i've always looked up to them so perhaps i'm taking your honest crit a little personally. if how they do is trite sucksterness, then i really have no business criticizing records period.

cheers tho,
m.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 14 July 2005 20:52 (twenty years ago)

OK OK, so we know that PFM001 will be The Wilderness What A Pity, or whatever their album is called.

Let's move on to PFM002!

(or seriously, the question posed.)

― donuty! donuti! donuté! (donut), Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

Let's move on to PFM002!

sway.

― sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:20 (twenty years ago)

This is the best idea I've heard all day. Can't imagine it making much money, though.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:21 (twenty years ago)

Let's move on to PFM002!

sway.

Oh, don't tell me PFM are all over Sway? I thought I could enjoy him for a few more months before the hype kicked in.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

i don't know if they've mentioned him, but it's a perfect fit for Pitchforkmedia Records - shows they like the hip-hop too, not too undie, british to boot (other reviewes can talk about this "grime" thing that the kids are talking about), funny, also earnest. oh, and bleeding-edge hip unknown (if being covered all over the indie press is "unknown").

― sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:39 (twenty years ago)

whiney, i find the wilderness record to be even more headache-inducing than the red-type and dreadful layout of the pitchfork book.
(full-disclosure, in it five times)

― ndb, Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)

You're in the Wilderness record five times? I should listen more carefully! Haha...

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Friday, 15 July 2005 02:49 (twenty years ago)

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